Search the conversation or listen from the beginning. Chapters are not yet available.
The Transcript
Search a word or use quotation marks for a phrase. Jump to a passage to hear it in context.
Speaker 1When I walk a fragile road and I'm holding on to a sound that can't be heard, I see the rain.
Speaker 1But it's all so quiet and I can't trust anything now. It's annoying, but it's the end of the day.
Speaker 1Ian, the sound is not coming out good.
@donnaleistI'm gonna get my iPad and play something.
Ian MalcolmJoAnn, sorry about that.
@joann_marieI never expected this moment to happen.
Ian MalcolmWe have the microphone on the wall. I apologize for the interest. Thank you for calling that out, Miss JoAnn. But hopefully you got to hear and prospectively be terrified and mortified and surprised and all those things. But JoAnn, can you name that tune by any chance?
@joann_marieI can! It's Haunted by Taylor Swift! And this was so unexpected. I never thought that you would play Taylor Swift. Thank you. I do love Taylor Swift.
Ian MalcolmYou know, we had the Ghost of Tom Jones. We had Ghosts by Michael Jackson. But I know I've overused. I feel like the King of Pop. I've used one too many times. So I had to look for something else. And so this one's going to be interesting because we're going to be going into the spirits. Thank you so much for joining us.
Ian MalcolmI know that we're going to be approaching this in kind of a slightly different fashion. We're going to be getting essentially a presentation on this idea, a lot of supporting elements to basically back up that worldview and perspective. We will certainly, as we always do, open things up for a Q&A. But I just wanted to call that out up front because, you know, we've got all these different formats.
Ian MalcolmSometimes I ask lots of questions. Sometimes we pepper people with questions. Sometimes we debate things. Sometimes like yesterday, we flip the tables and I get peppered with questions, right? The format's all over the place, but trying to just make the world a better place by talking about anything and everything. And this is one of those conversations that felt like it would be much better suited with essentially an overview statement, a walkthrough of those ideas.
Ian MalcolmAnd so everybody can basically buckle in for what is essentially going to be almost like a class, right? We will have a classroom setting with our professor that is History Media. On this topic, and I'm going to be very interested for the ghosts, the goblins, the ghouls, and all the other pieces of the puzzle that we're going to hear about here in this space with our very, very special speaker.
Ian MalcolmAnd so without further ado, well, actually, before I do go to you, JoAnn, I also just want to give an immense special thank you and lots of gratitude, as always, to Mr. Allegedly Dank, the man, the myth, the legend, right? The spirit, if you will. who is taking all of our content, moving it all onto Apple Podcasts, Rumble, Spotify, as well as ianmalcolm84.com.
Ian MalcolmAnd I mention that as I always do also because that very same content was utilized and Dank helped to put together a extremely professional AI submission that JoAnn has provided to the, we're shooting up the bat signal. for Tucker Carlson.
Ian MalcolmBe the one to ask the questions rather than vice versa. But I bring that up because we're moving needles, right? Yesterday's conversation broadcast across terrestrial radio. Essentially, you can think of it like traditional radio as well as all of the platforms that TST radio is on, right? So that information, that content, those ideas literally being blasted to the other side of a planet and then distributed across all those channels that he's using.
Ian MalcolmAnd so I say it because We are out there, and because of people like Allegedly Dank, we're maximizing, amplifying our voices as best we can. And then because of these connections and relationships, we're expanding our ability to just infuse more and more of these worldviews into more and more people. And as a last little thing, I'll call this out because I'm really excited about this space.
Ian MalcolmIt'll go in a very different direction. But I do want to note, because a personal friend of mine called today, and they are just... They're very demoralized is probably the right term. They're looking around, and whether it was their own circumstances, those of friends, of family, those older, those younger, they were just looking out, and I could sense in their voice just this essentially dread.
Ian MalcolmThey did not know, and they made the specific comment. They were saying for individuals that are getting out of high school right now, what are they looking to possibly do? Because at every turn, the only things that they see glorified and glamorized is essentially degeneracy and hedonism and all of the other things that we obviously talk about.
Ian MalcolmAnd with AI and all that it is becoming, what white collar jobs are out there? And if you then think about it, okay, so say you get rid of the accountants, the tax attorneys, you get rid of all the other people that sit there with keyboards. It's not very long after that you then get the robots and they take all the blue collar jobs, right?
Ian MalcolmSo what are these people looking forward to in their tomorrows? And I bring this up because as a result, one of the things that I think we really have to dig deep is to find that piece of either spirituality or morality, religiosity, whatever it is, right? That will allow you to recognize that, well, maybe we've been looking at the world wrong for the last couple decades, right?
Ian MalcolmIf not the last century, maybe we've been trying to, let's say, aim ourselves in the direction of the dollar.
Ian Malcolmwhere they were able to be part of something rather than just another cog in a wheel in New York City, for example, right? And so I think that this space, it's a nice little way to think about things because again, going into this idea of religion, of spirituality, right? And I want to keep coming back to that because we will be talking about essentially some themes that might go along the lines of Ghostbusters, which I'm very excited about.
Ian MalcolmMaybe some that might sound like something out of a horror movie, again, excited for, but also, Thank you so much for joining us.
Ian MalcolmSo these ideas can permeate. They can stay with us long after we and our handles and all these other things are long gone. And so too are these stories that we're going to be unpacking. Again, with H1story Media, please give him a follow. Check out his page. With that being said, why don't we go to the co-hostess who forever is with the mostest, the unbelievably enthusiastic, optimistic, energetic, positive, just beaming with brightness and goodness, Ms. JoAnn.
@joann_marieI know. Thank you so much for hosting here on H1story. Thank you so much for co-hosting. Mandy. Rex Power and everybody. I see Bryce and Matt and everybody down there. And Dank, obviously, our absolute superstar. Guys, please repost this space. And if you guys want to do it, I will also repost it and bookmark it. It helps so much with the algorithm.
@joann_marieAnd follow Ian and History Mandy, everybody. And yeah, no, thank you. Thank you so much for being here. And I don't know a lot about this topic, so I cannot wait to learn more. So yeah, no, really happy to be here. Thank you.
@joann_marieH1story, would you like to do a little introduction?
@h1storymediaYeah, sure, thanks. Can you guys hear me okay?
@joann_marieYou sound perfect.
@h1storymediaOkay, cool, awesome. Yeah, and look, especially, well, first of all, I just want to say big thank you to Ian, big thank you to JoAnn for even being willing to do this. Because a lot of people, you know, this is an uncomfortable, somewhat controversial topic. A lot of people, a lot of Christians. And the fact that you guys were so welcoming, you guys have been so kind to me and so generous, and you're just more than ready to just dive right into this.
@h1storymediaI really genuinely appreciate it. I appreciate the platform and all of that. To address what Ian was saying, it's really funny you bring that up, Ian. about the sort of nihilism that people are kind of dropping into now. Because what's fascinating for me, and I'm tying this directly to the subject that we're talking about tonight, is that I was very much so in a similar place for a long time.
@h1storymediaFor years and years now, I've been dealing with pretty severe health problems. And this is one of the things that as soon as I picked up on this and I have... My brother down there, Saint Rex. I have much of this to... I could thank him for a lot of this, for showing me a lot of this stuff. And we've been unpacking this more and more over the past year to two years.
@h1storymediaReally getting into this. But I was in a very similar place. Like, man, I don't know. I feel like my life is... It's purposeless and all of this stuff. And... Not only did this particular topic sort of pull me out of that gutter and really give me something to ground myself and really just dive head first into and spend so much time getting to know intimately, but it radicalized my faith in like the most fantastic way.
@h1storymediaLike when I was first getting into this, There was a period where I was almost like, oh, I don't know if I could have the same kind of faith that I had before. But then I realized, wait a second, I don't have the same faith that I had before because it's been deepened. It's like the well that I thought was my faith, it's like I discovered there's a whole new section underneath what I thought was just a very shallow well.
@h1storymediaAnd I've discovered that this has actually become something that's helped me
@h1storymediaHowever Ian and JoAnn want to do it, if they want to open it up for a Q&A or if they want to ask us questions or turn it into a conversation or however it wants to go, we'll do that. I love it. Again, my good friend.
Ian MalcolmYeah, we'll definitely do all of that. And so if people do want to come up, ask questions, certainly feel free to request a mic and come on up. We will, again, we'll do that presentation kind of uninterrupted. We'll get to the end of it, and then we will open the panel to anybody and everybody. And I just want to caveat, right, because I feel like at every turn, we've just got the archers that are up in the hills, JoAnn.
Ian MalcolmThey're always looking for something. Again, you know, everyone is entitled to their own faith, to their perspectives, their slants and bends and all those other kind of things. And whether it is Major Martianite that we, of course, talked with, Who gave kind of his prism on Christianity, what it means to him, right? Or anybody else.
Ian MalcolmI will always offer and platform anybody and everybody that comes in good faith, trying to share wonderful information. Might not mean I agree or disagree with any of it, but that is the whole intent is to be able to offer to anybody and everybody the opportunity to hear it, right? So they can arrive at their own... So take it for what you will.
Ian MalcolmI hope that everybody finds it of interest. I'm very curious to hear about these various angles, but I just wanted to throw that out right off the bat because otherwise I just know whatever it is that follows. Oh, did you see that? Ian now believes it. Yes, and it just gets very, very, very tiring. But nonetheless, I am very, very excited not only to hear and to learn history, but then also to...
Ian MalcolmGive a back and forth and ask a whole bunch of questions on what's about to follow. So very excited for it.
@h1storymediaAwesome. And yeah, just so everybody's clear, everything that I'm about to talk about, I'm not sure if Ian shares these views or not, but he's not endorsing me in any particular way. He's just been kind enough to provide this platform to me. Please don't go after him. Feel free to come after me.
@h1storymediaThat's totally fine. So with that being said, I guess, should I just get right into it?
Ian MalcolmYeah, let's dive in.
@h1storymediaAwesome.
Ian MalcolmAnd if there's anything you want to share along the way, feel free to put that into the purple pill or we can put it up into the nest for you. If you've got any visuals or supporting documents you want to share with everybody.
@h1storymediaYeah, sure, definitely. I definitely have some stuff. I might put some stuff up there later. Okay. Well, welcome, everybody. Thanks for being here. Again, thank you to Ian and JoAnn. So let's get into this. We're going to be talking about what does the Bible exactly say about the spiritual world? Well... For those of us who grew up in Christian families, or maybe you're a brand new Christian, or maybe you've been a Christian your entire life, most of us were handed a very simple picture of the spiritual world found in the Bible.
@h1storymediaTypically, you see people talking about one God on a throne. There are angels who run errands, have these glowing halos, and have wings and fly around. There's one fallen angel named Satan, and Everything else is either poetry, or it's some sort of pagan fiction, or it's a metaphor that we're just not supposed to press.
@h1storymediaWe're not supposed to ask any more questions. Now, there is a kernel of truth in that picture. But it's not the picture that the Bible actually draws. Because scripture actually describes a heavenly government. A most high God, a supreme... Unseen, uncreated God who rules over a court of divine beings. Those beings have assignments, and they have real authority over real nations.
@h1storymediaNow, the Bible calls this court the Divine Council. And inside of that court, the figure that most English Bibles simply call the Lord, Yahweh, all capitals, is actually not at the top of that hierarchy. He's a member of it. He is a lesser Elohim. He is not God the Father, and he is not Jesus Christ. Now, I also want to point out very quickly that he is not Satan either.
@h1storymediaI'm not making that claim. Now, I'm not asking you guys to like that claim. I'm not asking you to immediately agree to it. I'm just asking you to keep an open mind and an open heart and just watch and just pay attention to what the text actually says and the context surrounding the text. Think about the rules of logic.
@h1storymediaA text cannot be true and false in the same respect at the same time. So if a reading forces one person to be both the sender and the sent, both the one who allots and the one who is allotted to, both the redeemer and the one who has a redeemer, then that reading has already failed.
@h1storymediaA few things first, because unfortunately a lot of English Bibles have just smoothed over some of these words and definitions, and so I just want to get a few of these out of the way before we really get into it. Now, Elyon, E-L-Y-O-N, Elyon, means most high. That's what it translates to. That's the title of the supreme god, the uncreated, unseen, the one who possesses authority within himself and distributes it.
@h1storymediaAnd that's the one that Jesus calls the Father. Yahweh, Y-H-W-H, is the personal title printed as Lord in all capitals. This is the name of the Elohim, or God, who meets the patriarch, speaks from the burning bush, and gives the law. The title is real. The question is whether every use of that title is Most High, and the text says no.
@h1storymediaAnd we get to El Shaddai. El Shaddai is commonly translated to God Almighty. A more proper translation would be Shining One of the Mountain Strong. Exodus chapter 6 says, I am Yahweh. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El Shaddai. But by my name Yahweh, I did not make myself known to them. So it's the same speaker under a prior title and then a later one.
@h1storymediaA being who unveils... A title that he previously withheld is describing his own history of revelation. That's the speech of an appointed figure, not the uncaused, unseen source. Then we get to Elohim. Elohim is a plural noun. It's a plural word in most of its usage. Like you see in Genesis 1, in the beginning, Elohim created.
@h1storymediaIt can mean... A group of divine beings. It can mean an individual divine being who is not the supreme God. The Hebrew uses the same word for both of those. But the authors were not confused about this. They believed that there were many Elohim, and there's one supreme Elohim. Now, if the word could not bear that range, then Psalm 82, which we'll get into later...
@h1storymediacould not call the defendants gods in the same breath that it calls the judge of that council god. Then we get to Bene Elohim. That means sons of God, created beings, not begotten from God's own essence. This is the royal court. And some of them were assigned nations, which we'll get into in a second. Now, hold those terms in your mind, and then we'll get into some of the actual texts.
@h1storymediaDeuteronomy 32, verses 8-9 Now, the Mesoretic text, which is what is behind most English Old Testament, says that the Most High divided the nations, quote, according to the number of the sons of Israel. Now, there's a problem there. That reading fails on its own terms. Why? At Babel, which is where this is taking place, there was no Israel.
@h1storymediaAt that time, the number of the sons of Israel was exactly zero. So, a verse that explains the division of the nations by a nation that does not yet exist is not actually explaining anything. Well, that's a problem. What do we do now? Well, let's look at the older reading, which is preserved in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Greek Septuagint, the older, more reliable readings, which say,
@h1storymediaThe Dead Sea Scroll says he divided them according to the number of the sons of God. And the Greek also agrees. It says angels of God. Then we get to verse 9, which says, Now, pay attention to the logic, not just the wording.
@h1storymediaIf they were the same person, then verse 9 would be a strange way of saying that God kept Israel for himself while assigning the other nations to nobody in particular. But the older text doesn't say that. It says that the nations were numbered to the sons of God, and Yahweh's share was Jacob. So Elion gives, Yahweh receives.
@h1storymediaA being who receives his people as an allotted inheritance... is not the one who owns the whole arrangement. He's a member of it. He's given a territory. Now that word Jacob in that text is the author's later name for that portion because Deuteronomy is written long after Babel. So the author is looking back and he's identifying Yahweh's inheritance as that line that became Israel.
@h1storymediaSo the assignment itself is at the division of the nations. The name of the portion can be later than the allotment, but the allotment cannot be later than the divider. Now, that single passage already separates two figures. The Most High, that divides, and Yahweh, who is given. Then we look at Psalm 82. Psalm 82 is the divine counsel in session.
@h1storymediaAnd a lot of people try and tell me that this is just a metaphor, but it doesn't survive a metaphor. Verse 1 says, Elohim has taken his place in the divine council. In the midst of the gods, he holds judgment. In the midst of the Elohim, he holds judgment. So an Elohim stands amongst other Elohim and judges them. If the gods, if the Elohim were only human judges, then the scene would be a king rebuking magistrates and the rest of the psalm would not fit.
@h1storymediaIt wouldn't make any sense. Verses 2-4 charges them with, Unjust rule, partiality to the wicked, and neglect of the poor and the fatherless. That's a charge against rulers who were supposed to govern. Then verse 5 says that their failure shakes the foundations of the earth. Now, human corruption is certainly serious. We can all agree on that.
@h1storymediaBut it's not what the psalm says shakes the foundations of the earth. Then following that, we get the definite verdict. Verses 6 and 7 says, I said, you are Elohim. Sons of the Most High, all of you. Nevertheless, like men you shall die and fall like any prince. Now, that argument, the argument inside the verdict is the entire point because he affirms their status and then he strips it from them.
@h1storymediaSaying that you are Elohim is not some sort of sarcasm that he immediately cancels after. It's the entire premise of the sentence. And then he says, Nevertheless, like men you shall die. which only has force if they are not men. You cannot possibly threaten a human judge with dying like a human. That doesn't make any sense.
@h1storymediaThe only way that it makes sense is if something else was expected. Now, Jesus quotes this psalm, believe it or not, in the New Testament. Jesus quotes this psalm in John chapter 10, and he uses the line, you are gods. As a real statement of scripture, he's confirming this, not as something that he needs to unsay or go back on.
@h1storymediaVerse 8 closes the case by saying, Arise, O God, judge the earth, for you shall inherit all the nations. So the council has failed its assignment. The nations are to be taken back by someone who did not fail, which we understand to be Jesus Christ. Inheritance language only makes sense if the nations were previously held by others.
@h1storymediaNow Genesis 1 is a particularly interesting one because it belongs in the same frame. It says, In the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the earth. Elohim, the noun is plural.
@h1storymediaAnd then it says, Let us make man in our image after our likeness. Again, plurality. A solitary speaker doesn't need a plural of deliberation unless there is a court to address. Now, Christians later on have tried to read into the passage by saying, well, that's the Trinity. But the Hebrew, in its own setting, is entirely council language.
@h1storymediaLike we see in Job chapter 38, it shows who is there. He says, where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? The divine title that dominates Job is El Shaddai. And Exodus 6 has already told us that El Shaddai is the name that the patriarchs used for the being who later revealed the title Yahweh.
@h1storymediaSo the regent was there at the foundation and the sons of God were there with him. They shout, they do not commission, creation is delegated. And consider this. A king builds through his court. The authority belongs to the king, but the agents that are carrying out his orders are not the king. If the sons of God were the uncreated God, then Job would be describing God applauding himself under another title.
@h1storymediaI'm sorry guys, but I don't believe that... My God is Schizophrenic. A text that describes a court present at work should be taken seriously. Now, the Council is not confined to just these three passages. You see it from the beginning all the way to the end. We don't have time to get into everything, but what I will say is 1 Kings 22.
@h1storymediaMicaiah sees Yahweh seated. He sees a host of heaven on his right and his left. And then Yahweh asks, Who will entice Ahab? A spirit then volunteers and is sent. Now, a solitary mind doesn't need to ask an opinion of lesser Elohim. And that's what Yahweh did. Yahweh asked, How are you going to complete this task? That's awfully interesting.
@h1storymediaYou would think if it was God the Father, he wouldn't need to do that. A solitary mind also does not ask an empty room for a plan. and then commissioned one of its own thoughts as if it had stepped forward. Daniel chapter 10 shows that the prince of Persia withstands a messenger from God for 21 days and the prince of Greece is named right beside him and that Israel has a prince of its own.
@h1storymediaAnd these princes are not human emperors, like people try and say. Why? Well, because a human king cannot possibly delay an angel for three weeks. Not by political resistance, not by physical restraint, it's not possible. These are the national rulers that were assigned at Babel, at the division of the nations. That structure is stable, it doesn't contradict.
@h1storymediaWe have Elion at the top and a council of Elohim underneath them. One of them was the lighted Israel. Now that's the first half of the claim. That there is a divine council, and it has real authority. And the authority is real because the texts give it... Territory, Judgment, Failure, and ultimately Replacement in Jesus Christ.
@h1storymediaThe second half is sharper. It's much more difficult for people to stick with. But essentially, it's to say that the Old Testament does not use the title Yahweh for one undifferentiated entity. It uses it for a visible figure on earth and for a higher figure in heaven. And it lets them interact. So the mainstream reading has to make each of these texts say less than what it actually says or just say something else entirely.
@h1storymediaIn Genesis 19, in the destruction of Sodom, it says, Then Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from Yahweh out of heaven. So one Yahweh has been on earth with Abraham. Another Yahweh is in heaven and fire comes from him. Now, if the author had meant that this is one entity, then he had a very easy sentence available.
@h1storymediaHe could have just said, Yahweh rained fire from heaven. But he didn't say that. He says, Yahweh from Yahweh. That's a preposition, and the preposition marks a source that is distinct from the agent. A man does not send a letter from himself in the third person unless he means to reference. So the grammar is pretty ordinary, but the only reason to collapse it is essentially a prior decision that two bearers of the name are just not allowed.
@h1storymediaYou're just not allowed to even say that. Now, Zechariah chapter 2 has the speaker that says he was sent, and then says he himself will dwell in Zion, and then says that the hearers will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent him. Now, follow the logic. The one who dwells is called Yahweh. The one who sends is called Yahweh, Yahweh of hosts.
@h1storymediaSending is a relation between two. A person can be said loosely to have sent himself, but then he's not identified as having been sent by a second bearer of his own name. And the proof of his mission is not that the audience will recognize the second bearer as the sender. The verse is built to be verified by the distinction.
@h1storymediaSo if you collapse this distinction, the proof disappears and the text no longer makes sense. In the very next chapter, Zechariah chapter 3, the text says that Yahweh speaks to Satan. He says, Yahweh rebuke you, O Satan. Yahweh who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you. The speaker is Yahweh. But he doesn't say, I rebuke you.
@h1storymediaNo. He invokes Yahweh in the third person. And he does it as the form of a rebuke. So an appeal to a higher authority is not an appeal to oneself. If the speaker were the final judge, then the natural sentence would be, I rebuke you. But he doesn't say that. He uses a judge who will not rebuke in his own name. We look at Hosea 1, verse 7, which says, Yahweh will save Judah by Yahweh their Elohim, not by bow or by sword.
@h1storymediaThe contrast is with weapons. The instrument of salvation is a person called Yahweh. One Yahweh saves by means of another Yahweh. Instrumentality divides the saver from the means. You do not say, I will save them by myself, their Elohim, unless you are marking a second. Isaiah chapter 44 says, Thus says Yahweh, King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Yahweh of hosts, I am the first...
@h1storymediaThat grammar is a compound subject. Yahweh, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Yahweh of Hosts. And then we have this possessive His, which is the hinge of this entire text. Yahweh of Hosts is the Redeemer of Yahweh, King of Israel. A being who has a Redeemer is not the Most High. The Supreme God does not stand in need of someone above him to vindicate him.
@h1storymediaThese two share the name and speak in one oracle. Shared speech is not identity. If a king and his guarantor can issue one decree, then the decree's unity does not make the guarantor the king. And then saying, besides me, there is no Elohim, is spoken from the throne of arrangements, not as a denial of the court that the rest of scripture describes.
@h1storymediaSo it's actually not contradictory at all. He's saying, I am the first, I am the last, and besides me there is no Elohim. He's addressing Israel. And for Israel, there was no Elohim besides Yahweh. So there's no contradiction there.
@strexpowercoltIn Isaiah chapter 48, the speaker says that he was there from the beginning, and then he says, the Lord Yahweh... Yeah, even then, just because I thought you were going to say it, the grammar in that passage is... We translate it as besides me there is no God or there is no Elohim. Yeah, in English you can render it as there are no Elohim, there are no gods.
@strexpowercoltBesides who? Besides the two Yahwehs already mentioned. Two separate ones. It's not even saying singular. I'm one and there's only, you know, it is even in plural.
@joann_marieI'm very confused about the multiple Yahweh situation.
@h1storymediaYeah. Well, I think if I can get to the end here, I think hopefully it'll start to make some more sense. I'm building like a cumulative case here.
@h1storymediaSo then we look at Isaiah 48, which the speaker says he was there from the beginning. And then the Lord Yahweh has sent me and his spirit. So he's present at creation and sent. So we have three figures in one verse. We have the one who was sent. The Lord Yahweh who sends, and the Spirit. And the sent one is not the sender.
@h1storymediaSo, then we look at Psalm 110, which is... Well, no, not exactly. Not exactly, because the problem with that is that... Well, the problem with saying it's the Trinity is that, first of all, the Israelites had no... So it's actually multiple?
@h1storymediaYou already have a worldview that says there's many Elohim. So then once you start getting to these texts that distinguish that there's multiple Yahwehs, then it starts to make more sense. Like, oh, I see. So there's one Elohim that's using the title at this time and another one that's using it at that time.
@donnaleistOkay, I'm just going to keep learning. Can I jump in for a second?
@rectheregimeI just wanted to ask you know if you would sort of unpack you know I would have liked to have sort of like a you know what we call previewing in earlier in the talk to tell us what is the upshot of this like what what are the implications so that you know all these details make sense uh what's the what's the relationship between Yahweh and the father that Jesus refers to things like that you know we need to know I need to know uh sort of what what's the point of all these
@h1storymediaYeah, well the point is essentially to, and I think, you know, if I can be allowed to just kind of keep going through this and finish this up, it'll start to make a lot more sense, but essentially the point is that Yahweh is not God the Father or Jesus Christ, and the point of saying that is to say that just like Paul said,
@h1storymediaFor us, there is one God the Father, and there is one Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And so, it's important, in my opinion, that Christians know who to direct their worship and their praise and their prayer to. If they're directing it to Jesus...
@ceanndachIf I could just add history, I'm familiar with what you're talking about, and guys, he's on to something, because I've been looking into it myself. And it would just kind of be like, if you went to your next door neighbor and you were like, it's the Jews, they'd be like, you're psycho. So you kind of have to hear everything first, and then it starts to make more sense.
@ceanndachNo, I'm down.
@joann_marieI'm just...
@ceanndachVery confused.
@joann_marieBut I'm down to keep learning.
@ceanndachI'm just saying it'll sound crazy, but you've got to go through all of it.
@joann_marieYeah, yeah, yeah, no, this is very different. Go for it, history, yeah.
@h1storymediaOkay, thank you. I promise I'll be done in about five to ten minutes here. And then any questions at all, we'll do our best to answer them. So, looking back to Psalm 110, which is the Old Testament verse that the New Testament quotes more than any other, it says, The Oracle of Yahweh to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.
@h1storymediaNow, David there is distinguishing Yahweh who speaks from, quote, my Lord, who is told to sit. Now, David is the king, but he calls this second figure his Lord. and Yahweh addresses that figure. Now Jesus in the New Testament presses the Pharisees on exactly this distinction in Matthew 22 when he says, David calls him Lord, how then is he his son?
@h1storymediaIf there was only one divine person in the verse, then there'd be no riddle and Jesus' question would be empty, it wouldn't make sense. But the riddle exists because the Psalm has two. and the second is superior to David while remaining distinct from the Yahweh who speaks. Now, you lay all these passages side by side and there's a pattern that emerges and it doesn't move.
@h1storymediaWe see that one figure is visible, walks with Abraham, judges in the court, dwells in Zion, is called the King of Israel and bears the name, or the title rather, Yahweh. The other is in heaven, sends is appealed to in the third person, redeems, and is called Yahweh of hosts. Both are called Yahweh, but one receives, is sent, and has a redeemer, and the other one gives, sends, and redeems.
@h1storymediaNow, those aren't just two moods of a single person, because identity is not a mood. Again, going back to the laws of logic, a thing is what it is. The sender cannot possibly be the sent in the same respect at the same time. Deuteronomy 32, if you put that back on the top of the pattern here, we see again, Elion divides the nations and allots Israel to Yahweh.
@h1storymediaThe Yahweh who receives a portion cannot be Elion, the one who allots the portions. Elsewhere, the Yahweh who is sent cannot be the Yahweh of hosts who sends him, and the Yahweh who has a Redeemer cannot be the Most High who redeems. So to say otherwise is essentially saying that giving and receiving, sending and being sent, redeeming and being redeemed are the same relation when they are clearly not.
@h1storymediaThat visible Yahweh is Israel's regent. He's the angel of Yahweh. He's the one who speaks as God in the first person and receives worship because the name has been placed in him. That's what Exodus says. Like Exodus 23 says, Behold, I send an angel before you. Do not rebel against him, for my name is in him. So the name is in the messenger.
@h1storymediaThe sentence is the sentence of delegation. And the messenger is not the one who owns the name by nature. He bears it by appointment. If the angel simply were Yahweh without any remainder, then saying, My name is in him, would be pointless. A man's own name is not placed in him by someone else. Exodus 6 identifies that same figure with El Shaddai, and the patriarchs knew that regent under that title, and that Israel knew him under another, as Yahweh.
@h1storymediaElion does not set aside an old name and take up a new one for a later stage of revelation, but the regent does. Now, he is a lesser Elohim, he is real, he is authoritative within his own assignment, he is rightly addressed as God, by the people that were given to him, but he's not the source of the assignment. Lesser doesn't mean weaker, or it doesn't mean imaginary, and it doesn't mean contemptible.
@h1storymediaIt just means derived. His authority is real because it was given, and it's also limited because it was given. But he's not God the Father, because the Father is alien, the most high, the uncreated source of everything, the one who divided the nations, the one that no one has seen. Now here's something very, very, very important to pay attention to.
@h1storymediaIf you hadn't been paying attention to anything else that I've just said, you have to pay attention to this. In John 1, verse 18, John says that no one has ever seen God. Well, there's a problem there, if Yahweh really is God the Father, because Abraham saw Yahweh, Moses saw Yahweh, Isaiah saw Yahweh. So the mainstream reading has to make no one has ever seen God suddenly mean, well, you see, no one has ever seen God's essence, although many have seen God.
@h1storymediaBut the sentence doesn't say that. It says that no one has seen God, while the Old Testament says that many have seen Yahweh. So the clean resolution is the one that the council texts already supplied. The Yahweh that they saw is not the unseen God.
@h1storymediaHe's also not Jesus. If you look in Luke chapter 1 verses 32, it separates the two in a single sentence. Gabriel comes to Mary and tells her that the child will be called Son of the Most High and that the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David. Son of the Most High is one title, the Lord God who gives the throne is another.
@h1storymediaThe regent hands the throne to the heir. He does not become the heir. If the Lord God of that verse were already the child, then Gabriel would be saying that the child will give himself the throne that he is about to be given. But he doesn't say that. And Hebrews chapter 1 explicitly says that the son sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high, having become as much superior to the angels as the name he inherited is more excellent than theirs.
@h1storymediaAnd then it asks... To which of the angels did God ever say, You are my son? It's a question, it's essentially, it's a very specific type of argument from silence because the father said things to the son that he never said to any angel. And the son is not of that council. The council itself, including Yahweh, was made through him, the Logos.
@h1storymediaColossians 1 includes thrones, plural, dominions, plural, rulers, plural, and authorities amongst the things that were created through the sun and for the sun. A being created through the sun is not the sun. That's the whole point. That's the law of identity applied to this entire narrative. Philippians 2 is the transfer where we see God highly exalts Jesus.
@h1storymediaThe name that the regent, Yahweh, carried, because it had been placed in him, is now bestowed on the son as an inheritance. Bestowal is not original possession. And 1 Corinthians 8 keeps the same distinction after that transfer. It says that there are many gods and many lords. Paul doesn't deny them. But he says that for us, there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things.
@h1storymediaOne God, the Father, one Lord Jesus. It's not like the plurality and all this other stuff isn't suddenly erased from the world. It's just that it's no longer the government of us Christians. We have something new now. We have Jesus Christ. Paul can only say... That the many are real and that the one God and one Lord are a different relation, if that is the case.
@h1storymediaUnless we're going to sit here and call Paul a liar, which I am not. We see in Matthew chapter 28 that this is the same transfer of authority stated as a completed fact. Jesus Christ himself says here that all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Given. Authority that must be given. Colossians 2 says that he disarmed the rulers and the authorities at the cross.
@h1storymediaYou can't just disarm a metaphor. You can't disarm a wooden statue. You can't disarm a class that never had arms. Revelation 4 says it shows that the enthroned elders
@h1storymediaare casting down their crowns before the throne. Now, a crown is an office. They surrender it. The council's authority was real, but it's no longer final. So, the picture is this. Elion, the father, most high, the unseen source, the one who divided the nations. Beneath him, there's a council of Elohim with real territorial authority.
@h1storymediaAmong them was Yahweh, or El Shaddai, or the angel who bears the name. A lesser Elohim who was sent, allotted, and in need of a redeemer. Above that regent, and distinct from him, we have a higher Yahweh of hosts. And then we have the Son, through whom the council itself was made, who inherits the nations and the throne and the name.
@h1storymediaJesus is the Son of the Most High, but he's not the regent Yahweh who served before him. The Father is the Most High. He is not the Yahweh who received Israel as a portion. I want to close with this, because this is the thing that kind of makes this more than just a clever preference of mine. This kind of draws the whole argument to a close.
@h1storymediaAnd it's to say this, logic is not a human invention that we get to just edit whenever a doctrine becomes awkward or inconvenient or controversial. The laws of logic are the way that truth holds together, and they come from God, because all good comes from above. God is not a being who sometimes contradicts himself and sometimes does not.
@h1storymediaHe is truth. He is the essence of truth. What he reveals cannot violate the law of identity, the law of non-contradiction, or the law of excluded middle, because those laws are not outside of him. They are him. A thing is what it is. A thing cannot be and not be. In the same respect at the same time, and a claim is either true or false.
@h1storymediaNow, apply that to the two readings. The first one, the mainstream reading, says that there's one undifferentiated Yahweh who is the Father and who is also, without reminder, the one that Israel saw and who is also the Son in anticipation. And then it just asks the text to just bend over backwards and cooperate. Deuteronomy 32 has to have a distributor apportioned to himself as if he were one of the sons of God.
@h1storymediaGenesis 19 has to have one person rain fire from himself while also standing on earth as a second grammatical subject. Zechariah must have a speaker sent by himself under a second title rebuking Satan in the third person just so he doesn't have to say I. Isaiah 44 must have a king who is his own redeemer. and the possessive his is suddenly pointing at nothing.
@h1storymediaIsaiah 48 must have a sent one who is also the sender plus the spirit as a third who just means nothing and changes nothing. Psalm 110 must pose a riddle that Jesus treats as real which suddenly dissolves if the speaker and David's Lord are the same person. John in his gospel must say that no one has seen God While Abraham, Moses, and Isaiah have literally seen God, Colossians must place rulers and authority on the created side of the line and then have the Son be one of them whenever the Old Testament Yahweh appears.
@h1storymediaAnd Philippians must have the Father give the Son the name the Son already was, essentially, without actually giving anything. The reading, it's not just a small tension, it literally breaks the law of non-contradiction at the joints. Giving is not receiving. Sending is not being sent. Having a redeemer is not being the redeemer.
@h1storymediaBeing unseen is not being seen. Being created through the sun is not being the sun. So if you have a worldview that has to deny those differences in order to keep something propped up, it's already collapsed under the laws of thought. This reading, however, this particular reading, it doesn't do that. It lets Elion the Most High be Elion the Most High.
@h1storymediaIt lets the council be a council. It lets the visible Yahweh be the allotted, the sent, the name-bearing region of Israel, a lesser Elohim with real authority and a real limit. It lets the Son be the Son of the Most High, the one through whom the Council itself was made, the heir who receives the throne, the nations, and the name.
@h1storymediaEach figure is itself. None is suddenly forced to become its own source, or its own sender, or its own redeemer. The relations in the text remain... That, my friends, is what it means for a worldview to uphold the laws of logic. It doesn't invent extra beings just for the sake of being interesting. It just refuses to call two relations one relation.
@h1storymediaOkay, that's all I got.
@ceanndachI do have some things I can add if you want some supporting commentary.
@joann_marieYeah, go for it.
@ceanndachSo there are a couple of psalms he didn't mention. And one of the things I would point out is that you see often that there are things that are very different in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint that are not reflected in the Masoretic Text, which is what most modern Bibles are based off of, which is the maintained version by Jews.
@ceanndachSo one of the Psalms, 89.7, it identifies Yahweh as a God and it says, greatly dreaded in the council of the holy ones. So this implies that the angels of God verse from Deuteronomy is actually... More accurate than the rendering Sons of Israel that is in the Masoretic Texts. So this implies that it was changed. And I believe it's the Dead Sea Scrolls that says... Is it Sons of God in the Dead Sea Scrolls?
@ceanndachI may have those two mixed up, but it implies that there's more than one.
@h1storymediaYeah, the Dead Sea Scrolls has Sons of God, yeah.
@ceanndachYeah, and then in Psalm 82.1... It describes the Elohim as presiding in a divine council to render judgment among gods, and it establishes his authority as the supreme ruler.
@ceanndachI believe there's another text that has Yahweh bragging about being something like, there's no one among the council who's as great as I, or something like that.
@rectheregimeLet me just jump in if I might. So basically, What I have a problem with is this. The whole idea here is that Yahweh, he must be some sort of a derelict in the tribe because, you know, I mean, if God's will is going to be done through his lower gods here, through this ring of, you know, semi-gods, demigods or whatever, I mean...
@rectheregimeWouldn't they have to have his same sort of intentionality and moral disposition? I mean, as it turns out, Yahweh is like a bastard child, I guess. I mean, you know, he was a genocidal freak.
@ceanndachThat's true. So if you compare the behavior in the New Testament of God the Father to Yahweh from the Old Testament, the stark difference is very clear. They're not actually the same person. But then if you look at God as he's presented in the Garden of Eden, that does more accurately match God the Father of the New Testament.
@ceanndachSo there seems to be, from what I've been able to discern, it seems like once Adam and Eve were sent out, they were sort of placed under Yahweh, sort of like an administrator to guide the people. Because it even says that no one can actually view God and live, right? So in theory, not even Moses should have been able to view him at the top of Sinai and actually survive.
@ceanndachAnother thing that's very interesting is if you look at the conversation between Yahweh and Hasatan in the book of Job, he says, He asks them, where have you come from? I don't think that's how God would speak to Satan, right? Where did you come from? The conversation they have in Job on both occasions seems like it's that of peers.
@ceanndachNeither one of them speaks to the other as though they're superior. They both respond, you know, casually. So he responds from going back and forth in the earth and from walking up and down in it. Whereas if you contrast that to when Jesus speaks to Satan in the New Testament, he commands him. He tells him that you have to obey the Lord your God, and he commands him to leave.
@ceanndachSo there's another stark contrast there where it appears that what you have in the Old Testament is the divine counsel.
@ceanndachThe terms Yahweh and Satan are actually roles of gods within the council. They fulfill a particular office. They fulfill a function. But when Jesus arrives, the whole council is abolished and he takes over everything because they were failing to fulfill all the prophecies. At least that's how I've seen it.
@rectheregimeSo Jesus was really like... He was kind of like a company wrecker. He comes in and fires everybody. All the employees get fired and some of them get passed into hell. I don't know, man. This is a pretty wild... Because it doesn't really jibe very well with the Christian worldview. And if that's the one you're refuting, I think that should be made clear.
@rectheregimeBecause... But I think a reading that Yahweh could be equivalent to Satan or that they are assuming that the same person, I guess, is assuming these two different roles. I think that's consistent with the Christian worldview. If you adapt your theology quite a bit, but it's not orthodox by any stretch. Just saying.
@ceanndachWell, you have one other very important example where when it comes to Jacob, is it Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham, where Yahweh says, they knew me by the name El Shaddai, right? Which implies that they didn't know that he was Yahweh, which might even be him claiming to be El Shaddai, and he didn't actually meet them. Because if you look at...
@ceanndachEl Shaddai as being El Elyon, that means that El Shaddai is God the Father. And it makes a lot more sense to say that God the Father appeared to those three individuals.
@rectheregimeBut why is God allowing these kind of derelicts in his high council? I mean, this is the thing. Wouldn't he kick them out? I mean, according to the Christian narrative, yes, Satan rebelled, and God did kick him out of heaven. But this doesn't this doesn't do that. It said it leaves like a gangster loose within the organization.
@ceanndachWell, I mean, if I think that if you if you want to go from the perspective of, you know, omniscience and, you know, foresight from God, it's like, OK, well, why'd you let Evie tap, you know? So, I mean. You can kind of deus ex machina anything in the Bible you want. You say, well, why did God let this happen? Why did God let that happen?
@ceanndachBut if you also look at the Old Testament, one thing that you'll see that's starkly different from the Old Testament to the New Testament is that you constantly see Yahweh expressing frustration and rage, right? And someone who has foresight and who can see the future, if they know what's going to happen before it happens, why would they be angry about it?
@ceanndachThere'd be no reason to be angry. I guess my question still stands though is to why on earth would
@rectheregimeGod leave these kind of rogue elements running around inside of his organization.
@strexpowercoltCan I provide an answer to this? I think I have a pretty good answer.
@joann_marieYeah, go for it, Rex. I'm very confused. I don't like the old instrument at all. I just like the new one. So I have no idea what's happening.
@strexpowercoltIt would go like this. There seems to be a pretty strong through line. In the Bible, that not only will man be judged on the day of judgment, there will be a lot of other things judged. St. Peter references in his epistles, Jesus going down and addressing the watchers which are already bound in the earth that Enoch talks about, and that they will be judged come the day of judgment.
@strexpowercoltAnd it outright talks about the angels being judged in the Bible and people just kind of hand wave that as whatever and who cares. No, it talks about it. In fact, it says, again, back in Psalm 82, that
@strexpowercoltthat one of the Elohim, which evidently or rather somebody who's not one of them, which evidently is Jesus, will be judging them. So we already know they need to be judged. There needs to be judgment passed on them as well as on us. And you say, OK, well, then why were they allowed all these nations? Well, you have to be allowed a chance to see if you really are faithful to God or not, to be tested, to be judged.
@strexpowercoltYou have to be given the chance. That seems to be the case. And these entities were given the chance to say, okay, here's your chance. You're gonna go oversee these nations and then you're gonna take care of it. Jesus actually has a parable talking about all of this. Jonathan could pull that parable up. That'd be great.
@strexpowercoltAnd with the gardener and eventually the sun comes and they kill the sun, the gardeners. But they are given this chance To preside over nations after a tower battle. And as we know, they fail miserably, which that's pretty easy to see in the Old Testament. Yahweh over the Israelites fails over and over. The Israelites are pretty awful.
@strexpowercoltAnd it's not just him. The rest of them over their own nations fail pretty miserably. Some of them are pretty evil, actually, in history when you look at it. And not very good at all. Others are lazy jokes that just sit around and do nothing, hardly. and the cumulative effect is the world was not a great place. Things didn't really get better.
@strexpowercoltAnd so clearly they don't deserve a right to essentially rule like God does to rule over people and do this because they clearly cannot do it at all. They are not worthy of it. They're not worthy to say, I should be in charge. You should listen to me. You should look at me. They aren't worthy. Now, we're not all damned to hell.
@strexpowercoltIn fact, what we hear is that in. When Satan's kicked out, it isn't in the past. Everybody likes to picture this. Satan was kicked out in the distant past. The only time it talks about Satan getting kicked out of heaven is in the New Testament, Revelation. And it's in Revelation chapter 12, and that happens. Michael kicks him and a third of the angels out of heaven after Jesus is taken up, after her crucifixion, after Jesus is caught up unto God.
@strexpowercoltAfter that. Not before. So yeah, Satan's kicked out after. The powers are disarmed, as Paul talks about, after these things are disarmed by Jesus. That's the chronology given in the Bible itself. No, that's what it is.
@strexpowercoltAnd it's consistently given.
@joann_marieSo Yahweh is not actually God? There is like multiple Yahwehs, so it's kind of like demigods, kind of like the Elohim?
@strexpowercoltYahweh is the title. Yahweh is like a title. It is called a name, which is confusing to modern English, but it's not confusing to those ancient Middle Eastern languages at all. They call a whole lot of different titles names, quote unquote, that get passed around quite a lot.
@joann_marieSo does this mean that there is, like, for example, because I believe, like, in the New Testament, so Jesus is God and that's it, but does this mean that the Jews have, like, multiple gods, but they don't know? Like...
@strexpowercoltOh, the Talmudic Jews made it illegal to talk about this. The Talmud outlaws you talking about there being two Yahwehs, even though it's verses in the text. They said it's heresy. And to, like, kill people talking about it. So, yeah, they know about it and they don't want you talking about it.
@joann_marieThey do have multiple gods. So they are not like, oh, no, we gave you not monotheism. They are like, no, you actually have multiple.
@strexpowercoltThey only had two. They had two priesthoods, which people, for some reason, only seemingly know about the Levite priesthood, despite there's an entire book called the Book of Hebrews in the New Testament, the Epistle to the Hebrews. It talks at length about the order of Melchizedek. There is a second priesthood. One priesthood, the Levitical priesthood, is the one that serves, and he had priests before that, but he codified, this is the ones that are going to serve me specifically at Mount Sinai.
@strexpowercoltThey serve the lesser Yahweh, the El Shaddai, the thing that... appears to Moses, this thing that keeps appearing on earth, the thing that does dwell in temples made by the hands of man, unlike God, but Father who does not. That entity. They serve him. Now, well, he's not evil. Satan is mentioned, and Satan's literally not him.
@strexpowercoltHe's a different figure. And again, he doesn't seem to be wicked because he seems to, again, give Jesus his throne. So, again, he's not with Satan who tries to get Jesus to bow to him and all that. And so this this regent, this whatever you'd like to call him, the angel of Yahweh, the lesser Yahweh, El Shaddai.
@strexpowercoltHe. Yeah, he's he's not evil, he's not bad, and the Levites, the Brotherhood of Aaron, the Levitical priesthood, follow him and serve him. Now, the Order of Melchizedek, the higher priesthood, they serve Elion. That's God the Father. That's also the priesthood that Jesus is part of. Jesus is the supreme priest of the Order of Melchizedek.
@strexpowercoltAnd that's important for us because all Christians are priests in the Order of Melchizedek. All of us.
@joann_marieDo you have like a chart that I can follow? I'm so confused. Like...
@donnaleistYeah. That would be awesome.
Ian MalcolmIt's a lot. It's a lot.
@rectheregimeCan I ask a question that might clarify things a little bit?
Ian MalcolmDr. Rectenwald, if you can.
@joann_marieI think it would be really helpful for everyone because I'm like, this is the first time that I hear of the multiple Yahwehs. I don't even know what to ask because I'm very confused.
@rectheregimeYeah, go for it. There are certain... There was an early sect of Christianity. We've talked to the guy who's been in this space, the Marcionites. And they simply held that Yahweh was effectively Satan or, you know, the embodiment of evil and that his behavior was not at all consistent with the Father. And in fact, it was very contradictory.
@rectheregimeSo if in fact Satan was...
@rectheregimeWhat is the distinction here? I still think my question remains unanswered. Why are these rogue elements running around in the Council of the Most High? I think I can help you out.
@h1storymediaI think I can help you out. First, let me ask you, do you believe that you as a human being have free will?
@rectheregimeWell, yeah, I mean, you know, that's a very complex argument, but I mean, I do believe we have free will.
@h1storymediaI'm just asking if you believe.
@rectheregimeI believe in free will. Okay, Ed.
@h1storymediaOkay, Ed, so you believe we have free will. Do you believe, is it your personal belief that we were made in the image of God or in the image of the Elohim?
@rectheregimeI would say the image of God, and I don't, yeah, God the Father, or, you know, God, Jesus, you know, here's the thing.
@joann_marieBecause Elohim is multiple deities, no? So it's not God, it's like demigods, no?
@h1storymediaWell, that's what I was asking.
@rectheregimeWell, this is also bad news, because this monarchy is quite rigid. This is a rigid monarchy with a kind of...
@rectheregimeIf anything is true, it's that Yahweh is simply Satan and that he was in fact an evil being. And yet that's clear in his character as he manifests to the Israelites telling them to slaughter everybody in sight, including their children and animals. This is not the same God that Jesus prayed to, obviously. But he's also not somebody that God would leave under his command without kicking him the fuck out quicker.
@ceanndachWhy do you think that?
@h1storymediaOkay, I can...
@rectheregimeThis is a heavenly order, right? So this order was ordained by God himself. So why would God... Now I'm not talking about the free will aspect because we're not talking about... Are you saying that these gods, like Yahweh, are sinners? Is that what you're saying? They're capable of sin?
@joann_marieYes, and actually, if God is their creator, why would he create other gods to destroy everything? It's so contradicting.
@h1storymediaOkay, I can answer all of this if I could just have a moment here. So the reason why I asked if you believe in free will and the reason why I asked...
@h1storymediaYeah, so the reason why I asked if you believe in free will and the reason why I asked if you believe that we were made in the image of God is because if you believe that you have free will and you believe you were made in his image, then is it so hard to believe that these other divine beings that were created through the Logos would also have the same sort of free will?
@h1storymediaI think it's very likely. They would not have a propensity to stand because... Well, wait a second.
@rectheregimeThey're not going to be fair.
@h1storymediaWell, why wouldn't they?
@rectheregimeHow does... Well, I mean, why would... Because they're not supposed to. How does free will work? The humanity, according to, you know, my reading of the Bible, it's humanity that falls. It's not all of God's order or a bunch of criminal cartels running around within the heavenly hierarchy. That's absurd.
@strexpowercoltWell, you already believe that Satan fell, don't you? I have a problem with that. Why is that absurd? Yeah, we hear that Satan falls. We hear that one third, one third of the angels, one third of all the beings that are up in heaven, that Paul himself even says we're contending with powers in heaven, in heavenly places, one third get kicked out.
@strexpowercoltThat's not, unless there's just three of them and Satan's one of three, you know, one third get kicked out. If there's myriads upon myriads, armies and armies of angels, and they have appointed positions and powers, which the Bible does say they have that no matter how you phrase it. One third are in rebellion openly already.
@strexpowercoltThat's not an opinion. That's the text.
@rectheregimeYeah, I know that's what the text says. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. I'm saying, okay, so let's take it from there, though.
@rectheregimeLike, are these... These people then were rebelling against God, these angels that Michael struck down. Michael, my namesake. These rebellious angels effectively sinned in heaven, right?
@strexpowercoltWell, they sinned regardless. Where the hell were they?
@rectheregimeThey were in heaven and they were kicked out. Where's their residence? I mean, are they in heaven or not? If they're in heaven, then... They had to have sinned in heaven, which seems to be a contradiction in itself. You talked a lot about the law of identity and contradiction. Well, here is one major contradiction right here.
@strexpowercoltIt's not a contradiction.
@darelllemailvcWhen you go into Acts chapter 7, and I know Miss Mandy is going to love this because she did such a good infogram on her page, and you can go check that out. But in Acts chapter 7, verse 43, it says, Yea, you took up the tabernacle of Moloch and the star of your god, Remphan. Huh, imagine that. And it says, Figures which ye made to worship them, and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
@joann_marieYeah, but we're talking about Yahweh. We're talking about Malach. So is Malach Yahweh connected? Because we're talking about Yahweh.
@darelllemailvcIt ties into the same thing. Because then you can go into what we're dealing with now in this current conversation. And you look at the... And you go into 1 Timothy chapter 4, this predictions of apostasy. And then you can go further on into 2 Timothy chapter 3, it's becoming apostasy, which is the falling away. So like, regardless of what you choose to believe, whether it's the Old Testament, New Testament, either which way it goes, there's like...
@darelllemailvcA certain apostasy, there's certain beliefs, there's certain teachings that are falling away from the teachings of Christ, right? And you cannot deny that. We're seeing it in real action, real life form, in the debates, and we're seeing it in your megachurches. You're seeing that with the Joel Osteens, you're seeing that with T.D.
@darelllemailvcJakes, all these other big-time preachers, and all of that. And so the only way for us to focus and center back into what the true teachings of Christ is about is to get back in the word. And that is exactly what we need to get back into. It doesn't matter like the Old Testament. It doesn't matter the Yahweh, Elohim. None of that matters.
@darelllemailvcLike what matters now is to digest and keep the word of the Lord into your heart. And move forward and spread the word to your brothers and sisters so we can defeat the enemy at hand. And we know the enemy that is at hand. And so that's why I'm saying all of this, I understand, I love hearing the knowledge, I love hearing all of that.
@darelllemailvcBut at the end of the day, we know the enemy that is at hand right now that we have to beat. And if we just sit here... We just spin our wheels and we debate this stuff like biblically. And we're never going to get anywhere.
@joann_marieIt's the topic of today. So, yeah, but we do this every day. And the topic of today is just debating the Bible, mysterious spiritual world. And that is the topic. So we are going to debate that today. We're not going to do that tomorrow.
@ceanndachSo I would add just two more things to consider, JoAnn. One is that... What is the first commandment? The first commandment is you will have no other god before me, right? And that in and of itself tells us that there are other gods. There are other gods out there, right? Now, what we've done is we've accepted who our god is.
@ceanndachAnd that's fine. That's what we're supposed to do. But... It also helps for us to know the history accurately and to realize that there are other forces out there who are working against us. And to let them simply be in the obscurity, to let them be in the darkness, I don't think that that's something that we should do, right?
@ceanndachand one other book that we can also consider.
@joann_marieBut I think that what it meant is that, for example, there's Zeus and stuff like that, and that's a god people believe in, but that doesn't mean it's a real god that exists.
@ceanndachRight, but to the point that history was trying to make, and what I was making, is that we have the dead... These scrolls, right, and the Septuagint, they both tell us that there are angels and gods who are, you know, basically set into different positions, right? And if we also look at the Book of Enoch, I don't know if anyone is familiar with that, but you had angels who came down and they laid with human women, right?
@ceanndachAnd the Nephilim who were... You know, spawn because of that. The Nephilim were part of the reason why we had the flood in the first place is because the flood was intended to kill all the Nephilim because they were on the earth and they were rampaging. So it wasn't, you know, and I don't think that that's in the standard Old Testament.
@ceanndachI believe you have to read the Book of Enoch specifically to learn that. But, you know, to me, what I've... I agree with that. Thank you so much, Balthazar. All right, let's go to Jedi for justice.
@jedis4justiceOh yeah, thank you so much. Yes, so hello everyone. I've seen some of your names now and then and thank you for trying to stop, you know, the genocide in Gaza and all the stuff that, you know, the Zionists are trying to do.
@jedis4justiceThere's a lot of misinformation and disinformation that the Zionists have been spreading.
@jedis4justiceThank you for joining us.
@jedis4justiceChapter 2, verse 62, and it's repeated in Chapter 5, verse 69. Well, it's not a command, it's just a statement that says that all people who believe in God and who believe in, it says the last day, but that means justice, you know, the day of judgment. And so it says three things. It says God, the last day, meaning justice.
@jedis4justiceAnd the third thing it says, and do good deeds. And then it gives instances of such peoples. It says the believers, because it's speaking in the context of the time when the people were believing in Prophet Muhammad. But it also says the believers, I mean, in addition to believers, it says Jews, Christians, Sabians, which people don't exactly know what that is.
@jedis4justiceBut then it says, Anyone who believes in God. It says, So it means anyone who believes in God. And then it says those other things, you know. That means the last, you know, the last day. And who do good deeds. And it says, Meaning, you know, that they'll be, that God will reward them, you know. So people, people,
@jedis4justiceDon't realize that the Quran has that in there and we believe in Jesus and everything. But regarding the Bible's mysterious spiritual world, I believe that there's just one God.
@jedis4justiceI just think that we should just focus on those three things, which is on God being just one and perfect, and we should be grateful to God. And the second thing is we should be just to all of us, to everyone, and stop the evildoers. And you guys are doing that. Thank you. And that's basically it. And I think that some of these things that are confusions, from my perspective,
@jedis4justiceI believe that God revealed messages to people. It says in the Quran that God sent prophets all over the world, but things have been lost and changed and distorted over time. And I believe that some of the things in the Bible, like in the Old Testament, like kill all the men, women, children, babies, animals, and all that.
@jedis4justiceI believe that God did not reveal that and that some of these things... They kind of found their way in a corrupted form. And the historical critical method done by academic scholars in a lot of universities all over, probably in a major city near you, they have found these things, like Bart Ehrman and others. They have found how these things have kind of crept into the Bible by doing very careful textual things.
@jedis4justiceThank you so much, Dad. I don't know, I am still in the...
@joann_marieMy position is that I don't think God would actually ask his creation to destroy another of his creation. Like, why wouldn't he kill them himself? He's God. Like, why would he? I don't know. And I don't think he's a psychopath who genocides. I just don't think that's God.
@rectheregimeThis sounds like Tony Soprano or a little bit higher up.
@joann_marieYeah, like, I think the devil will tell you to do that. You know, like, I don't think God would be like, yes, go kill people and then... Especially since he gave us free will. I don't know, I don't think, I'm still, I don't know. But, what are your thoughts so far, Ian?
@h1storymediaWell, the... Well, the, uh... It's kind of, it's breaking up a little bit for me. Can you guys still hear me?
@joann_marieYeah, you sound perfect. Do you want me to... Oh.
@h1storymediaOh, okay. No, it's coming in fine.
@h1storymediaOkay, cool. As long as it's not me. I can handle it, it's fine. But yeah, just to say a couple things. I mean, obviously, a Muslim and a Christian don't have much in common theologically, maybe a tiny bit. We certainly have more in common technically than Jews, for example. But we're just going to have fundamentally different views on what is considered Holy Scripture and so on and so forth.
@h1storymediaI'm not really looking to have the Muslim debate. We could do that another night. I'd be happy to debate as many Muslims as possible. I mean, I've been doing that for a while now. Not today. Yeah, yeah, no. Not now. That's off topic. That's a different time, different day. But to directly address the issue at hand, it doesn't make sense.
@h1storymediaI'll give you that. It doesn't make sense until... You look at it as a world that was divided up amongst lesser Elohim who weren't God, and they were given real authority over their prospective nations. Now, if they were given real authority and they were also given free will, then I don't necessarily see a contradiction or a problem with God the Father stepping back and saying,
@h1storymediaI gave you guys the authority. If you want to do good with it, you can do good with it. If you don't want to do good with it, then there's going to be consequences. And that's essentially what happened. And that's the whole reason, or one of the reasons, not the whole reason, but that's one of the reasons why Jesus had to come back in the first place to reclaim all of that authority.
@h1storymediaRemember what he said in Matthew chapter 22 or 28? All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
@h1storymediaThen the Bible already distinguishes between Yahweh and Satan. Because we have very clear, like take Zechariah, I think it's chapter 2 or 3, for example. Where Satan is literally in the presence of Yahweh. Yeah, and we have Job. Satan is literally in the presence of Yahweh. Yahweh rebukes Satan. And he also does it in Job as well.
@h1storymediaSo, unless you guys completely reject everything in the Old Testament.
@joann_marieBy kind of like an evil entity. It doesn't need to be called Satan because I know Satan is like another entity.
@rectheregimeYeah, I didn't want to say that. I wasn't saying I held that view. I'm just saying that that's what the, you know, the... Major Marcionites.
@strexpowercoltThe Marcionites. Yeah, I discussed of Marcionite actually here. Was it a week? Me and Jaffa both actually. A week back. Two weeks. His views didn't hold up very well.
@joann_marieI'm just straight up confused about everything.
@ceanndachSomeone mentioned the story of the vineyard earlier. If you actually reread that and you think about it in the context of God the Father and the council, In Jesus coming to take the power away from the council and the council wanting to take over Jesus's role as the son, it also fits perfectly.
@rectheregimeYeah, but it doesn't fit inside the parable after the parable itself or within the parable. Jesus makes clear and the reading makes clear that the people that are being referred to are the are the Pharisees that Jesus is being, you know, trailed by, you know, as they're hunting him down. This is very clear. So he's speaking about the Pharisees, not talking about some council.
@rectheregimeHe's talking about the people that would kill Jesus, that would get the crowd into a rabble and, you know, call for his death. That's what was going on there.
@ceanndachThat is what was going on. But it has parallels to the Pharisees acting like the council was. Because the council, essentially, they were not doing what they were told to do by God. And the Pharisees, you have to remember, they only came about after the destruction of the first temple and the priests lost their power. Because the priests lost their power because without a temple, they don't have any authority.
@ceanndachWhere does this council reside?
@rectheregimeI mean, look, in a Christian narrative, there is a metaphysical component. There is the transcendent. There is the spiritual, the heavenly, and so forth. But where do these gods reside? Because they're not ruling from inside heaven, right?
@ceanndachIf you want to throw out the Old Testament, the whole thing, I'm fine with that. We can do that.
@rectheregimeYeah, I'd say so.
@joann_marieI'm down. I don't like it.
@rectheregimeGet rid of it.
@strexpowercoltI have an address to this. I have an address to this, and I put it in the pill because Paul already answered the question. Ephesians 6, verse 12. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, that's archons, the same thing the Martianites talk about and the rest of the Gnostics, against the archons, against the authorities and the powers, it says, the thrones of the princes.
@strexpowercoltThis dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. It says realms in that translation. It says places elsewhere. Notice it doesn't say in hell. In the heavenly places. That's what it says. That's what Paul said. No, he never said different.
@joann_marieOkay, so if I'm understanding correctly, there is God who is perfect and he's a creator and he's beautiful. And then he had multiple creations that some got corrupted. And in those are Yahweh and the Elohim and some of the angels and stuff like that. And those are the corrupted ones who are like doing these evil things.
@joann_marieSome of them, obviously, not all. And then this is who we are struggling with.
@ceanndachAnd Jesus showed up like John Wick and fixed everything.
@rectheregimeYeah, but I mean, here's the problem, and perhaps this goes all the way back into Christian theology in general. I mean, here's the question. How does, say, for example, Lucifer, how does he rebel when he's in heaven? I mean, I know he has free will. But how does he rebel in heaven? Maybe they are like imperfect. Because heaven is supposed to be perfect.
@rectheregimeThere's a perfect...
@strexpowercoltIt does not say heaven's perfect in the scripture. It really doesn't. Really?
@joann_marieThey are like imperfect creations kind of like humans. But with so much bigger powers.
@strexpowercoltIn Revelation, in Judgments, God gets rid of heaven and earth completely, both.
@rectheregimeSo here's the thing, though. What goes on there? What goes on there? You said that even the angels get judged. Yeah, I would say so, especially the legion that followed Lucifer. But, you know, I mean, like, how do they do this in heaven? I mean, I guess heaven's not perfect. So what is it like? I guess I guess it does answer the question I have had.
@rectheregimeFor example, let's say I go I get to heaven and I found out my son didn't make it. That would sort of fuck it up for me. It wouldn't really be heaven.
@ceanndachI think to a certain degree we have like this sort of a modernized, like the liberal influence on Christianity that sort of like, you know, promises that everything is rainbows and sunshine. but I mean I think that if also if we just look at the scripture right that's not that's not what it says and I mean that's all the history and I have done is we've just looked at the scripture and said okay well you know instead of you know sort of like picking the parts that everybody likes and reading those we're going to read all of it right and and try to figure out what all these things mean when you look at them holistically
@ceanndachInstead of just saying, I don't like this verse, I don't like that verse, I don't like that psalm, I'm going to skip over it. Doing that is just cherry-picking. I think it's probably a good idea at this point.
@rectheregimeI'm going to cherry-pick out all of the genocidal impulses that Yahweh manifests and tries to induct the Israelites into committing. I'm going to definitely edit that out of my belief system. I don't give a fuck what that means.
@ceanndachBut that doesn't mean that it's not true. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't know the words and their impact and what they mean. Yeah, I know what they mean.
@rectheregimeThat doesn't mean I believe, for example, the Orthodox Christian will believe. Let me say this. Wait a minute. Who identifies Yahweh with God, with the highest God, that is the Orthodox Christian view. I'm not arguing from that position. I'm saying I don't think that there's an identity in any sense and that God wouldn't, that the father that Jesus refers to would not countenance an unruly mob of assholes like Yahweh running around and commanding and taking over certain territories.
@rectheregimeI mean, it doesn't make sense.
@ceanndachHow is it any different than Stalin?
@rectheregimeWell, first of all, so heaven's not perfect, so what is it then?
@ceanndachWhoa, I don't think any of us really know that.
@rectheregimeYeah, I know. Let me say this.
@h1storymediaLet me say this. You don't have to like any of the things that happened in the Old Testament. You don't have to, and I'll tell you why, it's because Christians don't draw their morality. from the various wars and genocides that occurred in the Old Testament. We don't get our morality from that. Our morality largely comes from Jesus Christ himself and his ministry on Earth.
@h1storymediaSo you don't even have to take a pair of scissors to the Bible and just say, I'm going to cut this stuff out because I don't like that. No, it's fine. We don't even apply this stuff to our morality at all. It exists. It happened. It's real history. You don't have to like it. I certainly don't like genocide or, you know, stuff like that.
@h1storymediaI'm not advocating for that. I never would and I never will.
@joann_marieI just... Michael and I both think that it's not the same God as Jesus because Jesus would never do that. It's like the opposite. I agree. So when people are like, oh, no, you just need to, like, it's the same one. And it's like, I don't think so. Like, God is omnipotent. It's... In all of his creation, and perfect, right?
@joann_marieSo why would he change his mind, completely become the opposite?
@strexpowercoltMe and Jonathan are against you on that, but the Yahweh of the Old Testament is not God the Father, Elion, the one that's most of the time there is this lesser entity. What is it called? Elion, most high. That means most high in English.
@joann_marieElion? Elion.
@strexpowercoltOh, okay.
@joann_marieSo that is the creator.
Speaker 2Yes, that's the creator.
@h1storymediaYes, Elion. So El means God. That's a generic word for God, El. And then Elion means most high, so God most high. And yeah, I mean, look, I just want to make this clear. We're in total agreement here. This Yahweh figure in the Old Testament, whether it's one or two or three or four or however many... is not God the Father and it's not the Logos Jesus Christ.
@h1storymediaWe're totally in agreement there. I'm not at all saying that this is all one thing. A lot of mainstream Christianity does say that. That's kind of what I've been trying to unpack over the course of however many years it's been now between me and Rex and his absolute depth of knowledge on this. We've been trying to dispel exactly this.
@h1storymediaThis Yahweh is not God the Father. It's not Jesus Christ. It's not the one that we should direct our worship to. It's not the one that saves us. It's not who was crucified on the cross for our sins. And it's not where we draw our morality from either.
@rectheregimeWell, this is really welcome. I mean, what you're saying now makes perfect sense. Here's what I would recommend in the future. I mean look I teach writing I've taught writing and uh and so forth for years and I would have started with what you just said tonight because then I would be able to put everything in context as it were I didn't know what the you know argument was you know that's called a thesis statement so you might want to come up with one because and and then also what they call mapping you know you map out the argument you tell people what you're going to do and why
@rectheregimeAnd so anyway, I'm finally getting your point, but it took a while. Thanks.
@joann_marieAlso, like a little like so that we can see which ones are which one is God and then the Yahweh people and then the Elohim so that people do not mix them together because I was mixing up Yahweh with the God.
@ceanndachThe text is very, very confusing, you know. You have to remember, like, if you look at some of the atheists, like, I'll use Richard Dawkins as an example, right? They do sort of the opposite thing of what, you know, Michael was kind of talking about, and I'm not trying to knock you, but it's like, you know, they would pick out Bible verses and say, they would look at the Old Testament and say, oh, well, God said this, right?
@ceanndachGod did that, right? And try to use, like, these cherry-picked phrases to be like, this is why God is evil, you know? What this is actually doing is this is dispelling that. This is taking all of that and refuting it by saying that the God who did all of these things, that's not the same God as the one who everyone worships.
@ceanndachThis is not God the Father. This is not Jesus' Father. This is someone else who's doing that.
@rectheregimeI think that's a lot better place that everybody should be in and what it also makes clear is the distinction that the the entity that the jews worship is not the same one as ours yeah that would have been a good lead uh you know no i'm not criticizing i'm just saying you know perhaps i'm not as uh capable of synthesizing on the fly as maybe some other people but
@rectheregimeI would have liked some preview and then like a thesis statement like what was the main argument and then proceed with the details.
@ceanndachIt's rough because like I said earlier it's like if you just go to a random neighbor and you're like hey buddy it's the Jews like they'll just freak out on you like they won't they won't let you kind of build up to it so I mean I guess just dependent upon who it is right it's like which way you're gonna get the the better reception you know.
@rectheregimeNo, I wouldn't say go up to people and say it's the Jews. I think you could talk to people about the possibility that they would see a distinction between Yahweh and the Father that Jesus prays to. I mean, that distinction couldn't be clearer, but you can point it out to them, and that would go a long way. Anyway, I've spoken enough.
@rectheregimeIt's been a good talk.
@ceanndachYeah. I was just more talking about the reaction that some people would get if you start with that statement. So it's kind of a coin flip on which way is going to be better for you, I think.
@rectheregimeIn this room, you could start with the other way.
@joann_marieI just like the New Testament. The old one just confuses me, and if I start picking it apart, I just start getting confused. No, I can't. But the new one is wonderful. But I'm learning a lot, so yeah. Thank you. I didn't know there was multiple Jawas. Yeah, I don't like any of them. So yeah, thank you. Ian, what are your thoughts so far?
@joann_marieOh no, he's away from his phone. He's probably getting a sandwich. We have Donna up here. Donna, welcome. What are your thoughts?
@donnaleistOkay, Donna's not there either. Serenity, go for it. Welcome.
@redroadmasiSerenity?
@redroadmasiYeah, I'm here. I'm here. Hi, JoAnn. And hi, Ian, even though Ian can't hear me right now. You know how I see it? I wish I was here for all of it. I'm going to have to replay it because I'm sure it's been amazing. As always, your spaces are amazing, JoAnn with Ian. As I see it, what I was taught and how I feel, like in my soul, is that God in general, like the God from the, let's say, quote unquote, the Old Testament, right, is everything and all knowing, right?
@redroadmasiBut no connection to, you know, the people he put here. So, you know, he gave them free will. This is what I feel. That we were given free will. And that... Hello? Oh. We were given free will. And what happened was that we, you know, lived in free will. Which was murderous. Which was completely, like, crazy. And I believe that he tried everything.
@redroadmasiHe tried all kinds of rules. He tried, well, maybe they do this, they do that, whatever. They'll act right, you know, etc.
@redroadmasiAnd it didn't work. But he also encouraged them to slaughter others. Let me just finish, okay? Let me finish what I want to say. And then...
@redroadmasiuh what happened was was that he decided look i'm going to send my son which is part of me right in the in the human form and i need to feel all these feelings and understand my kids you know um and also uh and through that make some new arrangements some a new way of being and i think that he realized god The Father, I'd say on top or whatever, realized that through Jesus, Jesus gave us morality, which is absolutely correct.
@redroadmasiAnd I think in that works in the Trinity, along with the Holy Spirit that goes from Jesus straight into us when we call on him. You know, I think the Holy Spirit is always there, especially when you believe in Jesus.
@redroadmasiWe can call it any time. And, you know, basically that's what I believe. What I really loved about what happens in the New Testament is that realizing like, you know, because I went to Roman Catholic school, right? And all I know is that God wasn't vengeful. I thought God was vengeful in all this stuff because of the Old Testament.
@redroadmasiBut with Jesus, you know, I saw all these wonderful things, you know, with compassion, you know, and the love and the understanding and the, what is the word? Unconditional love, actually, and the forgiveness, along with the things that were warned about, which is seven deadly sins, you know, pride, envy, greed. Anger, blah, blah, blah.
@redroadmasiAnd I think that that framework through Jesus was the one that worked. Now, in terms of the Hebrews, in terms of the Jews, which is focused on, obviously, in the Old Testament, what I believe is what the Vatican actually believes this, and it has been said, that as soon as they killed the Messiah, Oh my God. As soon as that happened, they were given a certain period of time, and whoever believes in Jesus, that's it.
@redroadmasiThey become the chosen. Anybody who believes in Jesus are chosen. They said at first the Hebrews were chosen, but no, anybody who believes in Jesus is chosen. And that was Christianity. Now, But that's my belief, through my belief in Jesus Christ. I understand there's Hinduism, you know, you have Muslims, you know, and Buddhists, you know, and all those things.
@redroadmasiAnd I believe that, for me, they're reflections of God, or reflections of Jesus. That's how I feel. That's just my personal belief. Of course, I am not talking about not one other person. That's just how I believe. But anyway, basically that's it. But who was asking me a question?
@rectheregimeOh, I was asking you, you know, you said that, you know, you sort of equated Yahweh with the father that Jesus prays to in the New Testament. I was saying that it isn't true that Yahweh just went around chiding the, you know, the Israelites and, you know, trying to discipline them and so forth. He also encouraged them outright to slaughter their neighbors and to kill all the women, children, and even the animals.
@rectheregimeOkay, so that doesn't sound like the same God that Jesus was talking about.
@redroadmasiWhere does it say that in the Old Testament? Where does it say it?
@joann_marieOh my God, so many times Serenity. Yahweh is a lunatic.
@redroadmasiWell, just give me one. Just give me one.
@joann_marieI'll find it in a second.
@redroadmasiThe Amalek? I don't believe, I don't call God Yahweh. It's just God for me.
@joann_marieOh my God, I'm Jesus.
@rectheregimeYou suggested that Yahweh was the same as the Father. You suggested that.
@redroadmasiWell, I don't say Yahweh at all.
@rectheregimeYou also said things like, you know, God had to... I didn't say Yahweh. Wait a minute. God had to send his son here to find out what it was like to be a human. Part of himself, I say. You know what a mission means, right?
@redroadmasiI said part of himself, which was his son.
@truthtellerftmSerenity, don't you pay attention to my spaces? 1 Samuel 15, 1-3 Oh, is this my man?
Speaker 1That's my man?
@truthtellerftmOkay. Well, yeah. Anyway.
Speaker 1Yahweh.
@truthtellerftmI'm so happy. I love my truth. I love my truth.
@redroadmasiOkay.
@truthtellerftmSo those genocide orders that you think don't exist in the Old Testament, there's multiple of them.
@redroadmasiNo, I'm not saying that they don't. Just tell me one of them or something.
@truthtellerftm1 Samuel 15, 1-3, where they invoke Amalek, where you can kill all men, women, and children, ox, cattle, sheep, basically anything with a pulse. That's what Netanyahu invoked right after 10-7.
@redroadmasiIt says Malek or whatever the hell.
@truthtellerftmSorry? Amalek. It says that? Yes. You need me to cite it to you?
@redroadmasiYeah, I read it. You know what?
@truthtellerftmI read the Old Testament, not like the New Testament, though. Look up Numbers 31-17, where it says you can kill all the men, kill all the women, kill all the children, but keep for yourselves those girls that are untouched, i.e. are virgin. So you can keep sex slaves, virgin sex slaves. Numbers 31-17. So there's two.
@redroadmasiDo you think that God and the devil is one? And that they split?
@truthtellerftmI have a theory. No, no, no. Look, the purpose of the devil, and this might be controversial to some people, keep in mind what the devil does when he's in hell. He's there to see you burn and suffer. He serves a purpose. He's there to tempt you as part of the test. Again, my theory, you guys can disagree if you like, to test your will and resolve and your ability to be virtuous.
@truthtellerftmYou have choices you can make in life. You'll hit a crossroad and you have a voice within you. Divinity rests within you. You can choose to do right or You can choose to do wrong. The Jews, I believe, who represent the devil, they're there to tempt you. They serve a purpose as well. God could have wiped them all out if he wanted, but why would he do that?
@truthtellerftmHe wants to see who will be virtuous, or who will be like a shavoskoi, suck up to them, take their shekels, live that amazing, fantastic life on this earth, but then they will find out in the next life.
@joann_marieThey serve a purpose, and the devil is there for... That's why my argument is that whoever told that to the Israelites was not God, was the devil.
@truthtellerftmThat Yahweh is not God, because I don't think God would tell his people to commit genocide. There was not one author for the Old Testament. The Jews will have you say it was all Moses, and then somehow somebody drafted in Deuteronomy his death and described exactly where he's going to die. To this day, no one knows where he's buried.
@redroadmasiDidn't they take the books that they wanted to put together?
@truthtellerftmJust pay attention. There were multiple authors. Multiple authors that had different perceptions, views of God, and it went through like three different languages as well. Because again, they claim it's all written in Hebrew. I argue there may not have even been ever a Hebrew language. It was just a knockoff of Aramaic.
@truthtellerftmIt could have been Phoenician. It could have been other languages. It could have been mistranslation. That's why when it comes to the multiple different references to Yahweh and God, it may have been lost in translation, including the reference to Lucifer.
@rectheregimeI love it.
@redroadmasiI love it. That makes so much sense. But it's so funny because, Joanne, I thought the same thing as well. because it just seems so satanic, I mean, to tell you the truth. I mean, like I said, that's why when I say God all-knowing, you know, but then I'm adding my own thing by saying, could he have been both? You know what I mean?
@redroadmasiAnd then, but... No. Put it like this. The only thing I really truly believe in is the New Testament. The Old Testament is very strange.
@joann_marieWhat is the creator and the other one is the destroyer, basically. Is that anything? What did you say, honey? What I believe is that one is the creator and it's just perfect and all-knowing and omnipotent and the other one is the destroyer who is just not good.
@rectheregimeYeah, I just can't...
@joann_marieI don't think it's the same one.
@redroadmasiBut there were some good things. There were some good things in the Old Testament. There were some good things.
@joann_marieWhat was that? What's that? It was Thomas.
@redroadmasiOh, okay. Thank you, Thomas, for the Star Wars. But go ahead.
@rectheregimeYeah, I mean, it's just, I think that it just doesn't make sense to me that there's this, like, rogue gallery of, you know, in the celestial hierarchy, you have this, like, mobster-type god, like Yahweh, running around telling his people to slaughter other people. I mean, I don't think that's... Part of God, the divine counsel.
@rectheregimeI just don't see it. I see that as completely contrary to the entire ethos that God is, you know, that God actually makes real and makes real for us as well.
@redroadmasiLike how can God make the earth? How could he make nature? How can he make these majestic animals that we have in our lives? How could that be? And then the other be?
@rectheregimeNo, no, no, no, no. That's not what I'm saying. Look, Jesus prayed to the Father. He never mouthed the word Yahweh. Anyway, they say, you know, maybe they just don't do that. But, you know, I think he didn't mouth the word Yahweh once. He talked about the Father, okay? And this Father was a merciful Father, and he's not the same type.
@rectheregimeHe doesn't have the temperament. He's not some sort of a maniac. In fact, he doesn't have a human temperament like Tony Soprano Yahweh. I mean, this guy's a thug.
@redroadmasiThen that guy, especially with the genocide and all that other stuff, which I completely feel embarrassed to say that, because I read it years ago, the Old Testament. The New Testament is what I'm more... You know, I read. But for anything like that, that's just plain Satan. As far as I'm concerned, I don't know what to say.
@joann_marieNo, Satan is another entity completely serenity.
@h1storymediaWe gotta figure something out. Just to clarify.
@h1storymediaI don't know how much truth teller of the space you were able to catch, but I want to hear what you think of this. because my understanding and sort of the presentation that I gave earlier is that this Yahweh of the Old Testament is clearly neither God the Father nor is it Jesus Christ and we see like very clear examples of separation between what we know is God the Father and what we understand to be Yahweh the Elohim of Israel and beyond that there is
@h1storymediaIn my understanding, there seems to be this clear divine counsel that is also present, which are also lesser Elohim and are not God the Father, nor are they Jesus. But they are lesser, and they were given the Old Testament records that they were given real authority, and they were given the nations, the nations were essentially allotted to them, and they basically just fucked around.
@h1storymediaand a lot of bad stuff happened. Are they like angels? Are those like angels? Wait, hold on. And then looking forward we see that because all of this happened and the world became so chaotic and corrupt that Jesus essentially had to come down to earth, reclaim all authority, which is why he says in Matthew that all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
@h1storymediaAnd then Paul goes on to say that... He disarmed all the rulers and authorities at the cross because this was part of what Jesus' mission was, was to reclaim all the authority from these other Elohim that are neither him nor the Father who kind of just made a mess of things.
@truthtellerftmYeah, I did hear you reference that. I didn't hear your whole presentation, but I heard the reference to it a few times. What I do know, and again, I'm no biblical scholar by any means, I'll never claim that, is that when Jesus came down, he never said anything about just omitting the Old Testament's laws. We'll call it Mosaic laws at the very least, because which version of the Old Testament are we referring to?
@truthtellerftmThere's more than one. So he came to, at the very least, restore them, ensure that Pharisees were following it, because they obviously were not. They were violating God's laws. So... I don't think there's any implication there that those laws came from a different God. Now, what I would say about the Old Testament is that it likely has been corrupted.
@truthtellerftmThere were multiple authors. It certainly wasn't written during a reasonable... or canonized within a reasonable period of time. It wasn't canonized until like 5th century B.C. Based on best estimates, Moses first got his commandments in around 1313 B.C. and then died...
@truthtellerftmInevitable China
@truthtellerftmSo I have more questions than answers, unfortunately. So I can't validate what you're saying that there were different gods. I do believe the Jews believe in a creator. Now, but they don't follow the creator's laws. They answer to the devil, I believe. They answer to like, you know, a Moloch, for instance, or a Baal. But I think the very, the original Jews that might have received scripture in 13th, 14th century, whatever, might have believed in a god.
@truthtellerftmBut when Moses came down, what did they see? Every time a prophet leaves the presence of the Jews, what do they do? They create another idol. These people, Israelites, whatever you want to call them, they were just never meant to just believe in one God. And you guys already know they even believe in the female God, Asherah, right?
@truthtellerftmFor 236 years, there's archaeological evidence that actually existed. They believed in the male and female. I do believe that polytheists, by the way, do believe in more than one God. So I agree with you there, that they do believe in more than one God. Now, is it referenced in the Old Testament? I'm just not a biblical scholar and able to confirm that, nor will I try.
@truthtellerftmI've only read through it a couple of times when I was a kid, so I don't remember. So, yeah, I do believe they're polytheists. I don't think they believe in a creator. I do believe their objective is to tempt you to do sin and to tempt your resolve. And that's the purpose of why they're here on this earth, is to see which one of the goy will fall for their bullshit and their goy slop.
@truthtellerftmThe ones that do, yeah, they'll be very well rewarded in this life. You know what I think, Truth? I think that in history, that the way that they are, you know, murderers and liars, that they would write and put in anything that they wanted to put in to justify their supremacy.
@redroadmasiYou know, to justify their blood lust.
@truthtellerftmThe Jews that talk about how they're chosen, it means they have to adhere to 613 mitzvahs, but by their own admission, most of them, almost none of them do. So just by that admission alone, they can no longer really be considered chosen because they failed in their obligations to God. Now they try to, and you heard Ben Shapiro say this, oh, you go and have it easy.
@truthtellerftmYou just have like seven Noahide laws. But again, he always conveniently excludes the one on idol worship because he considers Christians to be idol worshipers. But when in fact the Jews are the ones who worship, it seems, anything and everything but God because they can be atheist Jews and still be chosen and blessed in their belief system because they just seem to rationalize every step of the way.
@truthtellerftmSo understand what it means when they say chosen and supreme or the fact that God picked them. Remember, that was just based on a covenant with Abraham who was never Jewish. I use maybe Chaldean, whatever you want to consider his ethnicity. And they're the ones who want to claim that it also applied to his descendants, but then they only want to look at Isaac, right?
@truthtellerftmSelectively, even though Abraham had other kids. So every step of the way, you see they rationalize it when it comes to who's blessed, who isn't, who's chosen, who's not, so that it just benefits them and they get their own little cult that's entitled to whatever it is they think they can have, including land, because they say God's a real estate agent too, right?
@truthtellerftmThis is such an interesting space. Okay, guys. History, I'm wondering about your view. Do you believe that there were ancient civilizations, Sumerians, before this modern era? By modern era, I don't mean just after Jesus. That existed and ceased to exist because they just failed out. God's like, let's try this again. And we're like a trial and error, maybe?
@truthtellerftmAgain, these are theories. I have no idea. But I'm studying it based on... Archaeological evidence, carbon dating, etc. There's evidence of a civilization 10,000 to 12,000 years ago and there's no way that they were just hunter-gatherers relying on basic tools because it seems like there's a lot more advanced societies that they seek to hide from us.
@h1storymediaI totally agree with that.
@h1storymediaOne second. I totally agree with that truth. I don't know if you've had the chance. If you do have the chance or if you want the resources too, I could also DM you all kinds of stuff to read because there's a lot of very interesting ancient Sumerian tablets and epics. There's ancient Egyptian stuff. All this stuff seems to very clearly...
@h1storymediaIf you read the Sumerian Kings list... It gives you a very clear reference for what I consider to be the proper timeline.
@h1storymediaZiggurats, for example, that they've found, that they've dug up. And these ziggurats, they're these massive walls that were used for defense and to kind of keep the city-states protected from the outside. And some of these were said to have been so big that you could fit four chariots side by side and travel across them.
@h1storymediaAnd it's like... Yeah, like you're never going to convince me that these civilizations weren't at the very least as advanced as they could be at that time. Now, how advanced that really is remains to, you know, it's up in the air. But they were certainly like a lot more advanced than like what you were just saying. They weren't like these retarded hunter-gatherer, you know, type of thing.
@h1storymediaThey had some real civilization going on.
@truthtellerftmYeah, I agree. And you see it in the architecture today. I'm wondering if you're also familiar with the flood stork of Noah that may not actually be original. There's talks of the god Enki warning a Sumerian king at Trahasis to build a boat and survive a flood. That was a thousand years before the Bible. And you know, also for the commandments, you have the King Hammurabi of Babylon.
@truthtellerftmHe had the 282 laws that was inscribed on a tablet. That was back in 1750. Moses, God, His Commandments
@piaccount1What do you guys think of the idea that this all happened at some point in history and yet we're now modern descendants of it? In my case, one of the most fundamental relationships I have with a woman was with a Jewish woman.
@piaccount1You know, it was pretty intense. So how do you explain the idea that someone who is not of that faith, not of that, or maybe even partially of that biological incantation of whatever that was, was to encounter one of them and experience that, and yet You know, now maybe we can understand that there was this nefarious force at work against us, but that was maybe a temptation at the point at which we encountered it.
@strexpowercoltI'm trying to figure out what the question was exactly. I'm not exactly sure.
@piaccount1Okay, so let me phrase it better. I encountered a woman who was extraordinarily attractive, gorgeous, Jewish, and, you know, she maybe perhaps was descended from the Schoen and Nephilim, which is what I think we'd probably mostly generally call them. Extraordinaryly intelligent and attractive and she...
@truthtellerftmDid you just say she's the descendant of the Nephilim? She's a Jewish girl, what happened? Yeah, a very attractive Jewish girl.
@joann_marieOh my god.
@piaccount1That's what it was. Let's call it what it was. She was gorgeous. She was Jewish.
@joann_marieI don't think... Well, what happened?
Speaker 3That nose really... And I was totally into her.
@piaccount1I don't know what the question is.
@joann_marieIs that if it's okay to reproduce with an ethylene or something?
@piaccount1She was Jewish. I'm Goyim. I was attracted to her.
@piaccount1How do we interpret that?
@joann_marieThat's what it is. I don't know. I don't think they are descendants of the Nevelin. I think a lot of them are converts. It's just absolutely insane.
@redroadmasiThis is sounding like a Broadway show.
@joann_marieNo, he just wanted to make her say that he was in love with a Nephilim or something. It's just wild. Roger, if you like the Jew, just say that you like the Jew and that's it. Why did you stop liking her just because you think that she's a descendant of the Nephilim?
@piaccount1Well, I met a woman who is not Nephilim.
@h1storymediaOkay, so I'll address this. What's the end of the show? So you're into a Jew?
@piaccount1No, I was. I was.
@joann_marieAnd you didn't stop liking her because of the morality or whatever? No, no.
@piaccount1I won't pretend to be intelligent enough to have decided on that basis. I decided on the basis of the woman I chose was more like me. But There was this other woman who was probably a descendant of the Nephilim and a Jewess who was gorgeous.
@redroadmasiRoger, do I have to get tickets at Ticketmaster?
@piaccount1What?
@h1storymediaDo I have to get tickets to this Broadway show? Wait, hold on one second. Okay, so you were into a Jew, you thought she was attractive, and then later on you realized that she was a Nephilim or you think that she's a Nephilim now? Okay, so what? I'm sorry? What do you want me to say? I don't understand.
@piaccount1I'm trying to understand why I was so interested in her to whatever level you might be interested in it. She ended up marrying another Goyan man. Not me, but another one. And I married a woman who was actually blood related to the Palestinian Christians. Which are the group most closely related to Jesus. Was it your first time?
@piaccount1No. Unfortunately.
@h1storymediaTo quote a world famous tweet, I'm happy for you or I'm sorry that that happened. I'm not sure.
@joann_marieYou're hilarious, Roger. I have no idea. Yeah, I'm with H1story. Thank you so much for coming up. That was very interesting. Okay. And Sherrick Media, go for it.
@aesiric_mediaYeah, hard to follow up from that guest. So when I popped into the space, and I don't know if it was later in development, but it seems to be around... The idea that Yahweh is not the father in the New Testament, is that accurate?
@h1storymediaYes, that's the claim that I'm making.
@aesiric_mediaOkay. So that was a thing that the early church dealt with. It was called Marcionism. And I just wonder out of curiosity if you know why Marcionism was defeated.
@strexpowercoltLet me respond to this, Jonathan. Marcionism... is the belief that Yahweh and the Old Testament is first off one single entity, which the orthodoxy holds the same exact view, both are wrong, and second off, the belief that that singular entity, which it's not, is Satan. That's the issue with that. It's wrong already because it's not one entity, and I can pull up about a dozen quotes offhand where there's two of them.
@aesiric_mediaRight. I mean when I came into the space, I heard just offhandedly that the Yahweh of the Old Testament is an evil entity and the Father in the New Testament is the good entity.
@strexpowercoltThat was Michael Rectenwald saying. Me and Jonathan were not saying he was evil. Satan is a whole different figure than the Yahweh.
@aesiric_mediaI may have heard him and misattributed it. But just real quick though, I mean it is a factual statement that – All of the scriptures being fulfilled, right? All of the scriptures being fulfilled.
@aesiric_mediaI don't believe you, Roger.
@piaccount1In quantum physics, we get the idea that light, and this was something that was very heavily argued by physicists in the early 19th century, light was either an electrical phenomena, a magnetic phenomena, or a physical phenomena. And they had a really hard time arguing about this. Really, really, really hardly argued about this.
@piaccount1And it was very similar to the phenomena that was argued in the 15th century about whether the Trinity was God as a Father or the Holy Spirit or the Son of God. God as the Father, yet God as the Holy Spirit
@piaccount1God as a mechanical, like, electrical or magnetic phenomena is more important than the physical phenomena of a photon. Or God as the Father or the Son or the Holy Ghost, which of these is more important. You encounter the exact same dilemma. And when you look at it that way, you say, oh. We're talking about the same thing, which is why Jesus, when he comes to us, he says, I am the light of the world.
@joann_marieI get it. So do you think that Yahweh is Jesus? Yeah, obviously Yahweh is Jesus.
@piaccount1I am the light of the world. Right?
@joann_marieNo, that's what we're arguing.
@piaccount1Right. When Jesus says, I am the light of the world, he means I am the light of the world.
@joann_marieSo why is Yahweh like the complete opposite of Jesus?
@piaccount1Jesus is the light of the world because he is the photon, right? He's not the electrical phenomenon or the electromagnetic phenomenon. He is the physical incarnation of a photon, right?
@joann_marieYeah, I don't think so. I don't think God...
@strexpowercoltIt is based in quantum physics. I'm on the same page of this argument. It was Jonathan that made the presentation. And... This isn't even relevant to the argument.
@piaccount1If you don't understand how it's relevant to the argument, I apologize to you for your lack of understanding of this thing.
@strexpowercoltIt has nothing to do with what me and Jonathan were talking about and what the man was asking about. Me and Jonathan do believe the Trinity. The Trinity is a thing. The God, the Father, Elion, Jesus the Son, the Holy Spirit, that is a thing. We've not disputed that.
@joann_marieYeah, I'm with them. I also believe in the Trinity.
@strexpowercoltAre you asserting that Einstein was wrong in his understanding of physics?
@piaccount1I don't know. What are you talking about? Are you saying the Trinity is not a thing? No, I'm asserting that the Trinity is an exact parallel. I don't think you're understanding what this space is about, Roger.
@strexpowercoltThe upper man wasn't asking about eternity, sir.
@piaccount1Wait a second, Roger.
@h1storymediaWait, hold on, Roger. Roger, I gotta ask you a question. Are you drunk?
@piaccount1No.
@donnaleistYou sound a little bit drunk, Roger.
@piaccount1I sound a little bit like somebody who's trying to explain to you that... You're looking at two things that are precisely the same. And you're not seeing that.
@joann_marieNo, we all believe in the Trinity. We just don't think that Yahweh and Jesus are the same entity. Or in the Trinity. I don't think Yahweh is in the Trinity at all.
@piaccount1Yahweh and the Trinity...
@h1storymediaOkay, let's go about it like this. Let's do this. Let's do this, Roger. Why don't you explain... Why you believe that Yahweh and Jesus are one and the same?
@piaccount1It's very simple. So Yahweh is the overall concept of the Trinity, right? So you have this idea of God the Father and the Holy Spirit and the Son, right? So you have these three things.
@joann_marieThen Elion would be the Father, not Yahweh. Elion.
@piaccount1Names are less relevant to the concept.
@joann_marieNo, no, it's very relevant.
@h1storymediaYou just said that Yahweh is the entire essence of the Trinity. So how do you make that statement? Can you back that up?
@piaccount1With scripture, preferably.
@piaccount1You have this concept of God as... The totality of everything that exists, which is kind of an important concept in my opinion. And you have this parallel concept of what we consider light. You see it with your eyes, you look at a light bulb, you look at any kind of thing that emanates light, and you say, what is that thing?
@piaccount1And you could describe it from a... I don't want you to explain physics. We all understand this. No, because we agree on the Trinity.
@joann_marieAll of us agree on the Trinity. So fine, we agree on the Trinity.
@piaccount1So if you agree on the Trinity, you agree that there's a physical thing that exists, but it doesn't exist in just one thing. I'm not going in circles. If you look at light, it is a photon, which is the physical thing you can see. That's Jesus.
@joann_marieWe're going to go to another one. This is just insane. We're not going to go into physics. I understand the parallel that you're trying to, but we're not debating that. We understand the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We understand that, and we all agree with it. So you don't need to explain to us how they are the same with physics.
@joann_marieWe understand, and we are not denying the Trinity. We're going to go to Shield the Divide. Go for it.
@humansbydesignOh, hey, thank you. Can you all hear me, yes? Yeah. Perfect. Thank you. So the one thing physics can't... Thank you so much for joining us.
@humansbydesignIt just seems something's been taken from us. Are you asking me?
@truthtellerftmWould you agree? Yeah, there's information with help. You can cite the Vatican archives. That's an easy one. And consistently, over the course of history, whenever there's been wars or these great fires, like the Great Fire of London, 1666, they always burned down libraries. They always wanted to destroy information. Alexandria.
@truthtellerftmAlexandria, yeah, famously. You can go back further. Of course. They always did that deliberately because it seems like they also have something to hide. So I agree, we don't have all the information.
@humansbydesignRight, so there's so much hidden in every subject in physics, in archaeology, in science, in medicine, in energy, in everything. And it just feels so subverted across the board. And so it seems to me that we need to just focus on that highest path. And that's why... That's why Jesus or Christ is so relevant. I don't care what you want to call it.
@humansbydesignI don't care about all the details at all, really. All I know is the highest possible potential is Jesus Christ. And that's it. I mean, that's it. And that's the team I'm on. And I hope you all are on that team because that's what I'm on. And I want truth and I want love and I want light, however you want to call it. And that's it.
@humansbydesignThat's all I wanted to say. But I love y'all and I'm just glad we're here and we can do this together. We are the light. We are the way. Because Jesus was always the way. And that's it. Thank you.
@joann_marieBeautiful. Jesus is the way. Thank you so much, Hale. All right. Aesthetic Media, go for it.
@aesiric_mediaMy apologies. I was trying to respond to St. Rex in the comments. But yeah, I just... I wanted to know the position because maybe I misheard, but is it the position that Elyon is the father according to Jesus or is it Yahweh, right? I'm just getting clarification.
@strexpowercoltI'll attempt to, okay, here. I'm going to try to do it in a very short amount of time here. Just to restate because we're pretty far into the space, restate the premise is essentially this. One. Elohim is plural. It refers to shining ones, gods, however you'd like to translate that. Those are not all God the Father. Only one of those can even possibly be him.
@strexpowercoltBut more importantly, they're not. They're created beings. Second, God the Father is, yes, Elion. Elion is God the Father, most high. That is Jesus' father. Jesus is his son. Jesus and him are the same substance. The Holy Spirit flows from him or him and Jesus or just from the Logos itself, however you'd like to word that.
@strexpowercoltOne of them is called El Shaddai. He's also called the angel of Yahweh in the Old Testament, and he calls himself Yahweh, which sounds confusing and confuses the crap out of people, including even Justin Martyr, who clearly couldn't parse it out and figure it out, and so he just quoted Philo for some reason. The issue is this.
@strexpowercoltYahweh is not a name. It is not treated like a name. It gets passed around, even in Exodus. The entity that appeared to Moses, which was not God the Father. God the Father is up in heaven. He doesn't appear to people. His agents do. The angel that was already calling itself Yahweh as well and calling itself El Shaddai and that appeared to Abraham, that one, even then, even if you try to claim that's Jesus, that entity itself bestowed the name on another angel within the book of Exodus and gave him the power to judge and all these other things.
@strexpowercoltYahweh is a title. It's a title used by both Evidently, the Hebrews, we found it on Edomite things. We found it over in other places. It is a title in the ancient world that's used by certain peoples to refer to seemingly whoever it is that is appointed over them. Now, the thing is, it applies to more than one entity in the case of the Hebrews because we hear it used for Elion.
@strexpowercoltThen we hear it used for this again, this representative of his that calls itself El Shaddai and also is called the angel of Yahweh. We hear that Jesus gains this title. on the cross when he's crowned along with all the others from all these other entities over the nations that are disarmed which brings back to the other point in Deuteronomy 32 verses 8 to 9 we hear a very clear story given not in the Mesoretic text but in the Septuagint and in the Dead Sea Scrolls and it is thus when the nations were allotted and divided Elion that's God the Father
@strexpowercoltgave them to the sons of the Elohim, the B'nai Elohim. B'nai Elohim. That means those of the race of the Elohim. You can translate that as gods or shining ones if you like. These are heavenly entities. These aren't people. In the Greek, it says amongst angels. One of those is Yahweh. Now, people say, I thought you just said Elohim was Yahweh.
@strexpowercoltNo, Yahweh is a title. A title. It gets passed around repeatedly in the Old Testament. There are, at bare minimum, because Jesus is not the angel of Yahweh in the Old Testament. So there are at bare minimum four, if you want to count them all, things that have the title Yahweh that are outright lined out within the scripture.
@strexpowercoltThere is God the Father, Jesus Christ eventually gains it, this angel of Yahweh, and then another thing which he bestows it upon as well. So there are at least four, even if you try to parse out that the angel of Yahweh is somehow Jesus is just a martyr tried and failed to do because it contradicts scripture elsewhere.
@strexpowercoltThere's still another one that's not Jesus, so that doesn't hold to scrutiny.
@strexpowercoltThe idea that it's just the name, that doesn't hold up. It is a title that is passed around. Now, the Elohim over Israel, El Shaddai, the one being called Yahweh over Israel, is not Jesus. It is not God. It doesn't mean it's evil. Yes, it does some things that certain people today can consider very heinous and that you might even say yourself is heinous.
@strexpowercoltGreat. It's not God. It was given authority to do things. The nation was its inheritance. It was given this, or at least it was its allotment until Jesus came back and took all the nations. And so that entity and that's the that's the whole premise that me and Jonathan were talking about. We weren't disputing the Holy Spirit.
@strexpowercoltPeople have weird people come up and think, oh, you're a Martian. You're saying he's Satan. No, Satan's a whole different entity. That entity El Shaddai contends with Satan repeatedly. The entire book of Job is him contending with Satan to a large degree.
@aesiric_mediaNow, I think that your theory is interesting. I do. I think that it is supported in, for example, you cited Deuteronomy, the divine counsel. But there's a couple of issues that I don't know if you've addressed, but just to... In Isaiah 45.7, it says, I form the light and create darkness. I bring peace and create evil. I, Yahweh, do all these things.
@strexpowercoltYes, and in Isaiah 44.6, it shows there's two totally separate Yahwehs in the same book.
@aesiric_mediaThere's two Yahwehs?
@strexpowercoltYes, here, I'll pull it up. I'll pull it up. Isaiah 40. Give me just a second.
@aesiric_mediaAnd by the way, I do agree with you that Yahweh very well may be more of a title.
@strexpowercoltWell, because it gets passed around. That's the issue. Because we hear that it is bestowed, there's a verse in Exodus, I could pull that up, but because we hear it can be bestowed and passed around and other things can bear it and have its power and so on, you know, conferred with it. That is what we call a title in English.
@strexpowercoltEven if in the Hebrew it says name, that's what we call a title. That it works and operates like what we call a title. That's how it does.
@aesiric_mediaJust so we don't get lost, if you wanted to respond to that first question.
@strexpowercoltOh, the Isaiah thing. Yes.
@h1storymediaI've got two citations for you right now.
@strexpowercoltI am first, and I am the last. Besides me, there are no Elohim, there are no other gods.
@strexpowercoltThere are no other gods. Not God, not there are no, there's just, there are no other gods besides V. So there's two. We have Yahweh, king of Israel, and his redeemer. And by the way, the his redeemer, you can probably guess who that is. That's Jesus. His redeemer. And so we have two right there. In Genesis, we have, well, Jonathan has some other quotes already, so I'll go ahead.
@inevitablechinaSo then Yahweh is Jesus?
@strexpowercoltOne of the Yahwehs, if that's the issue, it's a title. But saying Yahweh is, insert something as a problem, if you say it's just one entity, if you say it's Satan, if you say it's God, if you say anything like that, you have already made a mistake. Because it is a title that is passed around. That's not an opinion, but text.
@aesiric_mediaSo what's the identity of this other Yahweh?
@strexpowercoltSo Yahweh of Israel, right? is Yahweh of hosts, his redeemer, Yahweh of hosts. That's Jesus. We know who they're talking about there. We know the redeemer and so on, and it goes on about it in the prophecies and Isaiah. Yahweh, king of Israel, is the Elohim, or angel, whatever you'd like to call him, this heavenly entity.
@strexpowercoltIt's not Jesus. It's not God the Father. It's not part of a trinity. It's an entity, a bene Elohim, sons of the Elohim. of the race of the Elohim.
@strexpowercoltA lot of them were legitimately real and they were a legitimate thing. The most of the same myths and stories you hear had a serious area of legitimacy. The issue is they're not God. And the ancients who mistook them for them are making a problem, but they were legitimate appointed beings over the different nations. Now, were they all good?
@strexpowercoltNo. We hear that they had to get judged. We hear that eventually one third of all the heavenly entities after Jesus's crucifixion, one third of heaven, one third of the angels, That's a lot because we hear there are myriads and myriads, more than you can count of these things. You know, more than any human witnessing them could at least comprehend how many there were.
@strexpowercoltAnd one third of them were in rebellion. So, yeah, plenty of them were not necessarily good and were kicked out after the crucifixion sometime after. And so. What we have is. This Yahweh, whoever is good, whoever is evil, that's not even relevant to what I would say. I think despite all the things he did, just like humans do some pretty arguably irredeemable things, I don't think that matters too much because in the end he does give the throne to Jesus according to Luke chapter 1 verse 32 and according to, well, King David asked him to in Psalms.
@strexpowercoltAnd Jesus even quotes that and points that exact Psalm out where, oh yeah, David asked Yahweh to give a throne to David's Lord, which is who? Jesus. um and it happens um so i don't think this one's bad at all i think he's uh i think he did some pretty brutal things yeah because that's just it's like yeah it's brutal by our but you gotta remember what are we to him he's some otherworldly entity he existed when the world was being formed like in genesis chapter one him and these others existed then like the book of job talks about um and so you gotta understand he's a cosmic entity to killing a few humans that are doing evil is
@inevitablechinaHe kills babies and children and stuff.
@strexpowercoltI know he killed babies. Well, again, I know he ordered them.
@inevitablechinaI'm not moral fagging either. I kind of agree, but I guess...
@strexpowercoltI understand that, but I'm not saying... Again, he's not even... You've got to think, if you were managing animals and you seem like an infected herd, because these are beings lesser than you from where you're standing, even if we're not morally lesser, okay? You've got to think about what kind of ways they might think, because they're not us.
@strexpowercoltHe's not us. Jesus is different. This isn't Jesus though. But it is a heavenly entity and it's not said to be. It does do some things that to us certainly seem pretty damn brutal and gruesome. I'm not going to argue it doesn't. It certainly does. That's not an opinion. That's what's in the text. However, you got to consider what...
@strexpowercoltWhat might happen if it didn't do that as well? You've got to consider what these other entities that it's having to contend with. Because if that one's faithful, if that's a faithful one we seem to be told from Scripture, what are the unfaithful ones like?
@aesiric_mediaSo I do have a little bit of a retort. And playing devil's advocate here. Because like I said, I genuinely find this interpretation interesting. I've never encountered it before. Um, but just thinking off the top of my head, I can think of a few objects, by the way, I'm not a Christian. So like, you know, this is not coming from a biased source.
@aesiric_mediaUh, but I was a Christian for a long time and, you know, I could think of a couple of things. Uh, Jesus's name, you know, Yeshua means Yahweh saves. Right. So, um, I'm, I'm, I'm sure that that might be referring to the good Yahweh and not the bad Yahweh, but, um, Why is there no plural version of Yahweh?
@inevitablechinaIt's always singular. How do you account for that?
@strexpowercoltIt's a title. If you had Duke, and you're passing the title around, where there's this Duke and there's that Duke, well... And again, we do have Yahwehs talking to other Yahwehs. In the very first book of the Bible, in Genesis, we have... Jonathan can use that quote right now if he'd chime in with it because I don't got it on hand at the moment.
@h1storymediaYeah, I was just about to read it if you want.
@aesiric_mediaCan I just finish my points real quick and then I'll drop down? No, no, no, you're fine. The second objection that I would have is we do have a group of people in the New Testament but also in the Old Testament that worshipped El Elyon. For a long time, and in fact they still do, they're called the Samaritans, right? From Mount Gerizim or whatever But those, when Jesus in the Gospels goes to him in John 4, right?
@aesiric_mediaYou know, he says salvation comes from us Yahudai, right? Which basically means Yahudi worshippers of Yahweh, right? Worshippers of Yah Inevitable China, Prophet Daniel Belteshazzar, Darell Lemaire, Serenity, Charlie Carter, Donna Leistand some of the early churches have the Tetragrammaton on their walls
@aesiric_mediaYou know, and stuff like that. So, just those objections, but also, are there any other, like, church fathers that agree with you? Because, you know, from, this is the kind of pushback that you would get from this type of theory, right?
@strexpowercoltNo, yeah, so, no, I can go for the church fathers, and here's the thing, so... The Church Fathers, Justin Martyr is the first one that had to deal with this, had to deal with the fact that there's more than one Yahweh. Now, his answer wasn't that there's just one Yahweh, and nor was it the other Church Fathers' answers.
@strexpowercoltTheir answer instead was as follows. Justin Martyr directly cites Philo, which is not a good thing to do. He cites Philo. I can explain that if you want, but he cites Philo, and he goes along with what Philo said. Because Philo, in his book, which is... Not part of a Bible, guys, and it's not holy scripture. It's his weird philosophical middle Platonism trying to turn everything of the Old Testament, cut it and make it fit into his version of middle Platonism and say they're the same thing.
@strexpowercoltSee, they're not. Philo equated the angel of Yahweh. Philo talks about these two Yahwehs. He said, which again, I pointed out there's at least three. So Philo failed. Philo talked about. Well, see, there's the heavenly Yahweh is unrevealed. Okay, yeah, sure. Is an alien? Yes. Alien, the father, is not physically revealed on earth.
@strexpowercoltJesus talks about this. It's all throughout the stuff. He doesn't appear to us. Yeah, that's correct. Okay. What else does Philo say? Philo Vins says about the angel of Yahweh. Now, again, Philo's not Christian. He's contemporary with Jesus, actually. Philo's writing his writings between about 22 AD to about 30 AD. Jesus' ministry begins in about 28, 29 AD, ends in about 33 AD.
@strexpowercoltAnyway. Philo is down in Alexandria, Egypt, though. He's not up in Judea. He doesn't run into Jesus during that time. And he's an old man by this point. So Philo in his writings equates this angel of Yahweh or the lesser or earthly Yahweh to he says it's like the logos. Oh, that's like Jesus. He uses the word in an entirely, totally different way.
@strexpowercoltHis logos has nothing to do with the inherent underlying rules of. All of creation and all of reality. It's just specifically of earth, like the laws given to Moses, just the laws of the earth and those things. And he calls God the Father, basically the source of emanations. It's totally different than what the New Testament explains the Logos as and so on.
@strexpowercoltIt's a totally different take on it, meaning it's not compatible anyway, let alone Philo completely dismisses a lot of stuff in the Old Testament that the New Testament repeats.
@strexpowercoltPhilo shouldn't be taken in that context to begin with. He's not a Christian. Well, Justin Martyr took him in that context because Justin Martyr himself didn't have a whole lot of experience with other people teaching him. He was largely self-taught. So he looked to sources like Philo. Now you say, OK, why are you focusing on Justin Martyr?
@strexpowercoltI'll explain in a second. Justin Martyr goes on and he decides when talking to because he writes his apologies and he's specifically aiming them at like Roman Greek pagans. Right. And. They're bringing up the fact that there's Elohim, gods, in the Old Testament. And they are there. That's true. Justin Martyr doesn't dismiss this.
@strexpowercoltHe actually does go ahead and acknowledge the divine counsel. But then when it comes to he acknowledges, he's like, yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. All the church fathers agree with that until Augustine, by the way. Origen, Clement of Alexandria, Arrhenius, who is a student of Polycarp, who's a student of John, Jesus's cousin.
@strexpowercoltAgain, they all agree that the divine council is a thing. No one in the early church until Augustine, until 410 forward when he writes City of God. Until then, no one disagrees that there's a divine council of so-called gods that oversee the nations. The Bible says that and everybody agrees to that. Now, the Yahweh thing, though, there's a disagreeance over.
@strexpowercoltAgain, the Marcionites say, well, the Yahweh is Satan. Okay, that doesn't pan out because Jesus has the title applied to him in the New Testament, and there's at least two in the Old Testament, not one to begin with, so that's a problem. Martyrs, what Justin Martyrs said, going with Philo, he said, well, Philo tells us that the angel of God, the angel of Yahweh is the Logos, and Jesus is the Logos, so they're the same thing.
@strexpowercoltAnd then he attempts to try to point to where some prophecies do... and so on, and so forth.
@strexpowercoltAnd he just does it and says, that's the case. You know, Philo said it was the logo, so it's the case. And then he just kind of moves on. And then Irenaeus doesn't say, my teacher Polycarp taught me this. And John, the cousin of Jesus, taught me this. Irenaeus, the next guy to talk about it, cites Justin Martyr. He cites Justin Martyr, who's citing Philo.
@strexpowercoltAnd then everyone after Irenaeus and Justin Martyr either cites Justin Martyr or Irenaeus, who's just citing Justin Martyr. Or sometimes they even cite Philo, who Justin Martyr was citing. They all cite Philo by proxy. The whole claim, every line of claim is, I got this from this guy, who eventually, they got it from Philo.
@strexpowercoltSo you didn't get it from any of the disciples. No. No, none of them claim that. Not one claim says that. They just then say, well, this is what's been passed down. The chain of, okay, can you show me your chain? Yeah, the chain goes back to Philo. Oh, well, so what? Well, that's a big so what. You're going back to a weird middle Platonist that's making up weird claims who is totally a nipma to Christianity to begin with.
@strexpowercoltThat doesn't work. Okay, well, he is the angel. Okay, nothing in the New Testament ever says this. There's no positive statement to back that up. None. Not one. And they know this. They're just like, well, it's obvious, right? How is it obvious? What's obvious is Jesus gains the title Yahweh when he's crucified. As a result of being crucified, he gains that and he gains all the other titles of all the other entities.
@strexpowercoltHe takes all of our titles away from him. Him being crucified was essentially the beginning of our judgment. It's like, no, he's in charge now. You killed an innocent man, a sinless man, when sin is the punishment of, you know, sin brings about the punishment of death. Otherwise, you're not supposed to be killed. That's why death happens, because of sin.
@strexpowercoltThat's the only reason it happens. You killed him, he didn't sin. None of you are fit to be in charge. And it's proven now. It's one thing to kill fallible humans who are inherently sinful, and you can debate about that, but you just killed a guy who literally can't sin. You aren't worthy of being in charge of crap. And they thought, oh, well, put us in charge.
@strexpowercoltWe'll inherit the father's land, his home. We'll inherit the world, which, yeah, they didn't. Instead, they inherited dust. They inherited Getting Kicked Out of Heaven. You know, Satan even tried to bribe Jesus over this before the crucifixion, and that didn't work. And it shouldn't. Good. You should be glad it didn't.
@ceanndachIf I could add one point, Rex, I would point out that you have to remember that the same people who tried to steal the vineyard are also the same people who changed the Masoretic Text, redirecting the Seppitugent and the Dead Sea Scrolls from divine entities to themselves.
@strexpowercoltI know. I know. Well, again, the Jews clearly, Jesus even calls the Jews that don't follow him out. He doesn't say they follow Yahweh.
@strexpowercoltHe in fact says, no, they don't. Well, he says they don't follow Elian, right? Which, that's another point, is this is something else that's lost almost always. And this is kind of a side, but it's worth bringing up. There are two totally different priesthoods in the Bible. Almost no one understands this because Jews have fought very hard to make you not understand it, and it's very inconvenient to Catholics and Orthodox because you're part of the more important of the two.
@strexpowercoltBecause all believers in Jesus are part of a priesthood of Melchizedek, the Order of Melchizedek. Which, Rumps, anything else, because it's priest of God. Now, of course, the Catholics and Orthodox don't understand that the Levitical order aren't priests of God anyway. We're priests of this national entity, which was over Israel, the Elohim of Israel, Yahweh of Israel, El Shaddai, whatever you'd like to call him, which isn't Jesus, the thing that gave the Mosaic laws and so on.
@strexpowercoltAnd before you say, well, Jesus gave those laws, like just a martyr claim, just a martyr claim. Well, Jesus was the thing that was out Mount Sinai giving the laws. The New Testament, three separate times, completely rebukes this. It rebukes it in Acts chapter 7, St. Stephen the Martyr, when he talks about who gave Moses the laws, he says angels.
@strexpowercoltNot one, plural, angels. It's not even, which is true, and I pointed out, in Exodus, an angel appears to Moses that's not God the Father, it's a lesser entity, and then it gives it to another angel. It gives the title Yahweh, passes it along to another separate angel. Angels gave the law. Not God, not Jesus, angels. That's what Acts 7 says.
@redroadmasiWhat about the books that weren't added into the New Testament that were taken out? Like, how could, you know, I mean, I understand exactly what you're saying. Well, not, no. I'm understanding. I'm learning right now about what you're talking about. But what about the books that aren't there? Like, what if something else refutes something that you're saying?
@strexpowercoltWell, okay, so I see what you're going about here. So, okay, so the New Testament, you're basically calling the question about the canon. Well, yeah, you're pointing out a contradiction. No, you're right.
@inevitablechinaNo, continue. You were pointing out a contradiction earlier, but continue. You're on the right path.
@strexpowercoltYeah. So if we talk about books that aren't included, that's –
@strexpowercoltI can go on about that very long time and discuss the merits and lack of merits depending on what we're talking about there. I would prefer stick to the question I'm... No, that's okay. That's okay. No offense. I was just curious. No, no, no. That's okay.
@inevitablechinaAccording to the Septuagint, you know, the Septuagint says that it's like Yahweh or its word for Yahweh that gave Moses the, you know, the tablets specifically like directly in Exodus. But like a... The New Testament kind of changes that and says it was the angels.
@strexpowercoltNo, it doesn't change it. That's what I'm saying.
@inevitablechinaBut the word for it is completely different.
@strexpowercoltYahweh is an angel. The Yahweh that appears to Moses. The one that appears to Moses. Just like the thing that appeared to Abraham. We know it's not God the Father because God the Father didn't appear. It says in the New Testament. No man has seen him. It makes that clear. And so people then say, well, it was a pre-incarnate Jesus.
@strexpowercoltWell, that doesn't stand to scrutiny because it never says it's Jesus. And it outright contradicts the premise that it's Jesus by saying that angels, not Jesus, gave it, which is why I was getting to the citations about it being angels. In Galatians, it says angels gave the law. In Acts chapter 7, again, it says angels, that's what came to Moses, gave the law.
@strexpowercoltIn the book, the Epistle of the Hebrews, chapter 1, it goes over at length, verse after verse, about how Jesus is not like an angel. He is not considered an angel. No angel is like him, no angel has been given the things that the Father has given him. And then chapter 2 goes ahead and contrasts Jesus and the things he brought to us with the angels, plural again, that gave the law.
@inevitablechinaDid he actually speak to Yahweh, or was it the angel that he directly encountered? Is that what they're saying? We're always taught that Yahweh is the singular entity at the helm in the Elohim. I feel like that's mainstream.
@strexpowercoltVerse 2, it even says right before the thing that tells, the burning bush itself even says, There the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire. And then it goes on to call itself Yahweh. The angel goes on to call itself Yahweh. The angel does. And then that same angel later passes the title in another verse. I can pull that exact verse up too.
@strexpowercoltHold on. Oh yeah, so chapter 23, verse 20. Behold, so this same one that appeared to Moses passes the title again. Behold, I send an angel before you to guard your way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. Oh, hold on.
@ceanndachCan I make a quick suggestion?
@inevitablechinaAre you on the I am who I am? Like a 13 or 3, 14 versus, excuse me, 3, 14, and 15? Exodus 3, 14, and 15? I'll go ahead. Say your question.
@strexpowercoltWell, Exodus 3, 14, and 15. Oh, the other guy?
@inevitablechinaOkay.
@ceanndachWell, no, I was going to say, so we have seen that, for example, Satan, right? Satan is not a person, right? Satan is also a position, right? It's someone who is the opposition, someone who's adversarial. So could it maybe be the case that Yahweh is actually somebody who's like an advocate or somebody who's...
@strexpowercoltSo that's where we get into what the word means. So if Yahweh means what everyone... Okay, the main argument, because the issue is, if it is an abbreviation, like everybody argues, it is not a good one, like it doesn't pertain... No, no, no, no, no, I'm not saying...
Speaker 4It means I am what I am.
@strexpowercoltIf it means I am what I am, then it is a title. A title that specifically means... It's the same, like... Have you ever heard a... Okay, you know how a judge says, buy the power vested in me or a king would? I am that I am. It's a Bronze Age equivalent to that.
@ceanndachIf Yahweh is a title like Duke or something, for example, then it would make sense why you hear about it so many times, but it seems like it's the same entity, but it's not.
@strexpowercoltYeah. Well, yeah, it's a title. Different entities blatantly, because you have Yahwehs talking to other Yahwehs in verses. And Yahweh's saying, I, Yahweh of blah blah, has been sent by Yahweh of, oh, well, there you go. He's been sent by a different one. There's at least, yeah. And so that's how it's, here, here's the verse I was looking for in Exodus.
@strexpowercoltSorry, it is 23. So 23, Exodus 23, verse 20 to 21. So this is the one that already calls itself an angel of Yahweh and then calls itself Yahweh. That one then tells Moses, further, Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on your way and bring you to a place that I have prepared. Pay careful attention to him. Obey his voice.
@strexpowercoltDo not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, for my name is in him. So again, he bestows him all the power to judge and all the power to, again, do whatever he needs to do. Carry out his will. He wants to wipe you out. He wants to do this. He wants to do whatever he needs to do. So again, there we have at least, if you just go linear through the Bible, that's already bare minimum of three, not counting Jesus holding the title in the New Testament.
@strexpowercoltSo that's four if you do that. So again, the idea of it is exclusive to the son gets totally blown out the window, which Justin Martyr seemingly thought, but it's not true. It doesn't hold up to the scripture, doesn't hold the scrutiny.
@aesiric_mediaWhich Yahweh is in Isaiah 43, 11.
@aesiric_mediaWhere it says, I am Yahweh and beside me there's none other.
@strexpowercoltWell, I would have to look at context.
@h1storymediaIf I can address this real quick. I can address that real quick. So it's not actually in contradiction because if you read it within this worldview, what he's saying is that he's addressing Israel when he says that. And so he's correct in saying that, besides me, there is no Elohim, because for Israel, there was no other Elohim.
@inevitablechinaBut isn't that what the Christian Zionists kind of say? Like, the Christian Zionists kind of give themselves that exclusivity too, right? Where it's their lore versus everyone else, and it's like a counter-parallel. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not sure if that's... Because what's the point of Christ then, like, making us all Jews, right?
@inevitablechinaOr all Israelites, if you will.
@h1storymediaYeah, but hear me out. But, well, let me finish. So, Deuteronomy 32 is where we see that Israel is allotted to Yahweh. And it's not making the same claim that the Zionists make, because they're saying that Yahweh is God the Father, but they're wrong. He's not. He's one of these Elohim that is assigned to the nations. He was allotted Israel.
@h1storymediaAnd so, when Yahweh... But most people say that, not just the Zionists. Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. You're right. I'm not saying you're wrong. But all throughout the Old Testament, you see Yahweh say that, besides me, there is no Elohim. We have that in the commandments. Thou shalt not put any Elohim before me. It's not a contradiction because for Israel, there was no other Elohim.
@h1storymediaThey only had Yahweh. So when he's making that claim, he's making a claim of exclusivity to them. He's not saying that there is no other divine. And that is really referenced in the, you know, the beginning half of the Old Testament.
@aesiric_mediaI will agree with that. I think that's actually very, very, I think that that's actually very, very, and that's why I have a lot of respect. I have a lot of respect for it. I'm just...
@inevitablechinaYeah, but it's redundant, right? Like, to have that said, and it be referring to two different Yahwehs, from Isaiah 44.6 to 45.7. Well, no, but like, 44.6 to 45.7, like, they're two different Yahwehs, and wouldn't that like, flatly contradict themselves, like, in a span of like, a few paragraphs? Because both claim that absolutely no other divine entity exists alongside them.
@inevitablechinaWhy would they, like, why would that even be needed to be said?
@aesiric_mediaWell, there's even a more catastrophic one, which is El Elyon was worshipped, right, by the Samaritans, right? And the Samaritans, like, they still do it to this day, right? And then when Jesus in the Gospel of John, right, whose name means Yeshua, Yahweh saves, right, goes up to the Samaritan woman, says, You know not what you worship.
@aesiric_mediaWe know what we worship because salvation comes from the Yahudai, the worshippers of Yahweh. Right? And so I do see that as a little bit of a potential hair in the soup, so to speak.
@strexpowercoltLet me address the Ten Commandments thing, both Deuteronomy's version of it and Exodus's version. And also I can address many other instances because most of this, by the way, is translation error. Almost all of this is translation error. I'm not kidding. So Exodus chapter 20 verses 2 to 3, this is the first commandment.
@strexpowercoltI am Yahweh, your Elohim, your gods, your Elohim, plural, your Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of a house of slavery. You shall have no other Elohim, no other gods, plural again, before me. It's a title. Again, Yahweh is a title. There's already multiple of it already. This isn't even the higher one speaking.
@strexpowercoltThis is the angel of Yahweh that appears to Moses speaking at that. He's the one calling himself Yahweh here. And it already said he's an angel of Yahweh. It's not even God proper to begin with talking. And he calls himself Yahweh.
@inevitablechinaBut why doesn't he use his actual name in that verse that you just read? Like, why wouldn't he? Go ahead.
@strexpowercoltWhy wouldn't he say El Shaddai? He said I was called El Shaddai earlier in Exodus already. He gives this explanation of Abraham and Isaac. They called me El Shaddai. Here you shall say I am. He says this sentence which people say is what Yahweh has abbreviated. I am that I am. Now again, that's by the power vested in me.
@strexpowercoltHe's telling Moses to tell the Israelites that when you talk about God, Just refer to whoever, whomever it is. Yep. Whomever it is that, yes, has power over you, that's supposed to, rightfully, not like some other god, some strange thing. The things that are rightfully supposed to have power over you, which includes God, the higher God, Elion, the one that, the source of all of it, Jesus' father, God the father.
@strexpowercoltIt includes Jesus. It includes, even if they didn't quite understand or know of Jesus fully yet, David seems to have some understanding of him and some of the prophets do. And it includes this national Elohim. In fact, the New Testament, and I can go ahead and read the Deuteronomy version of those verses, reads the exact same.
@strexpowercoltI am Yahweh, your Elohim, your gods, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other Elohim, that's gods, before me. It says the same thing in both. and both. That's Deuteronomy 5, verses 6-7. But your English version, of course, normally doesn't say that because translation decides, well, Elohim, which is a plural word, is suddenly singular whenever we feel like it.
@strexpowercoltThat's not how that works.
@ceanndachSo... Just to add to that, Rex, you guys have to remember that the English translations of the Bible used the Masoretic text which the Jews edited.
@strexpowercoltThat's not relevant. It's that it flattens it in the translation. Yeah, right. Even in this case, even the Masoretic says this. But the Jews forcibly reinterpret it for retaliation, so they don't get anything. Even when you point out there's one Yahweh talking to never, the Jews just dismiss you, unless for Kabbalistic Jews, then they'll go all schizo on you.
@strexpowercoltBut for Separat and all that other crap. But normal Christians, like Christians, not these kikes, We haven't flattened Unluckily. It's been flattened by just a martyr getting it from Philo. He didn't cite an earlier church, but he cites Philo and everyone else either cites him or cites somebody citing him or cites Philo outright.
@strexpowercoltAnd that's been what we've been stuck with the entire time. The New Testament doesn't say this. The New Testament says this entity that's giving the law, it calls this thing in particular and the other thing that gives stuff later, it calls them angels, which the Old Testament says as well. It never says this entity is...
@strexpowercoltGod the Father. It says angel, and it never said any different at any point. It says what it says, and it repeats it later. This was the case. This stopped being the case, because first off, the disciples of Christ were being persecuted unto death. It's kind of hard to pass your teachings on. Irenaeus learned from Polycarp, hence to why he ends up saying just a martyr and not Polycarp on this, because Polycarp never said it.
@strexpowercoltIrenaeus learned from Polycarp From about the age of nine or so to like age 19 to 21 when Polycarp was put to death by the Romans. And he's one of our best lines of transmission. And that's it. That's the years he had to learn from Polycarp. The early church fathers had a bit of a problem on their hands. Everybody was being killed, if not by, again, James Robert Jesus was killed by what the high Levite priest in Jerusalem killed him.
@strexpowercoltAgain, Peter and Paul were killed in terrible ways. Virtually all of the early members were being hunted down and eradicated. The fact that some of their descendants managed to survive, like Jude's grandsons and so on, is itself a miracle at all. And so the lines of transmission were kind of messed up, and then the temple got destroyed.
@strexpowercoltAnd so all they had to look back to, because they don't really cite, you'll notice any other really ancient Jewish historians or anything like this, they end up citing Josephus. and Philo and whatever church, even earlier than them, the disciples, whatever they managed to get from them. And we can see where they get their claims based off who they cite, which is pretty important and pretty good because this claim sources back to Philo every single time.
@strexpowercoltEvery line of transmission goes back to someone citing, someone citing Philo or just back to Philo or again, like martyr to Philo, like it all goes back to every single one. And so this idea, The two Yahwehs, one is the angel of Yahweh being Jesus, is a weird conflation of Philo's philosophy with the New Testament that froze that idea completely out and never even posed it.
@strexpowercoltIt never poses it to begin with. In fact, when talking about this Yahweh, or at least one of the two that are appearing in Exodus to Moses, what does it say Jesus was in the desert? Does it say he was Yahweh? It doesn't. It says he was the rock. Yahweh stood on top of a rock. There's a rock that was struck that, you know,
@strexpowercoltGave water. It says Jesus was a rock and he was a life-giving water on the rock. It doesn't say he's Yahweh, but Yahweh's standing there if it hits the rock.
@inevitablechinaWait, the Septuagint doesn't use the word that's used for Yahweh? It doesn't use that word at that point?
@strexpowercoltThe New Testament's not part of the Septuagint.
@inevitablechinaNo, but like the... So, wait, I must have... Could you start over what you said then? Like you said Jesus in the desert as opposed to...
@strexpowercoltSo, in the New Testament, it equates... Jesus to the rock in the desert, not to Yahweh, to the rock that was in the desert that in fact Yahweh physically stood on top of at one point, that was struck and gave water. The rock in the wilderness that was struck and water came out of it. It equates Jesus to that, you'll notice, and not to the thing that struck it.
@strexpowercoltYou'll notice Yahweh isn't the thing being equated to Jesus. It had every chance to right then. New Testament authors never did it. They were given every chance to equate The Elohim of Israel, the particular entity assigned to Israel, to Jesus, and they just never do that. They say the exact opposite repeatedly. The idea that they were one and the same is, again, goes back to Philo, technically.
@strexpowercoltPhilo didn't say that. The first time somebody conflated the two was Justin Martyr. Justin Martyr conflated this lower entity in the Old Testament to Jesus. Meanwhile, well, what about the Jews? They don't talk about this at all because the Talmud literally outlawed talking about there being two Yahwehs. Wait, so if I quote scripture and I just point it out, the Jews would do something horrible to you if they could.
@strexpowercoltYeah. So they, of course, don't talk about it. And Christians, it was flattened. And so people, although it is still there, if you read Justin Martyr or all these other people will talk about it, but they equate one to the other. They equate the angel of Yahweh or the lesser Yahweh or whatever you want to call it, El Shaddai, to Jesus.
@strexpowercoltThe issue is there's not just one of them. So that doesn't work. Justin Martyr's wrong because Philo was wrong to begin with. So that doesn't work. And again, it's not the New Testament. The New Testament never says this. In fact, the Old Testament shows us, again, three Yahwehs before you even get out of Exodus. If you go from Genesis to Exodus, before you have even left the second book of the Bible, you had at least three.
@strexpowercoltWell, one can't just be the Father and one be Jesus because there's at least a third already, no matter how you parse it. And there's no reason to believe that one of them was Jesus. Now, we do certainly hear in some of the prophet books of a Yahweh, the Redeemer of Hosts, and so on, who is the Redeemer of the Yahweh of Israel.
@strexpowercoltYes, in Isaiah, we hear of a, that's presumably, again, presumably, by prophecy and by everything we see, we're talking about Jesus at that point, which makes sense. But again, that's not saying that, it's not conflating Jesus with that entity. In fact, it says otherwise. It has that entity, it still is a separate entity, even there.
@strexpowercoltThe New Testament quotes about the entity as a separate entity that hands Jesus the throne of Israel, the throne of David, excuse me, the throne of David. And Luke 1, verse 32. It's not a matter of, well, your opinion is that verse. No, no, no, no. This is the text. Like, my opinion is that that thing is not Jesus, and you need to prove that it is.
@strexpowercoltThe idea that it just is, that that's based off of conflating Philo with the New Testament, which isn't the case. You would have to prove that, and then you'd have to ignore all the times that the Bible and the New Testament contradicts that premise over and over.
@inevitablechinaWould you say that Yahweh is always acting within the, or within, like, in simpatico with the whim of God? Like, every action made by Yahweh is that which is already approved upon by God? Not in the same way of, like, well, I'm just, yeah, that's what I'm asking. Just because, like, I understand, you know, free agency, we can, that's a different discussion, but, like...
@inevitablechinaEssentially, it seems like every time you see Yahweh, it is directly at the behest of God. Do you disagree with that?
@strexpowercoltIt can't be, right? Because, again, this, because, okay, so the lesser Yahweh itself is already called an angel, right? Just as this example, just to show how even that doesn't pan out, right? The lesser Yahweh, who himself is already definitely not God, he's already called an angel, that appears in Exodus to Moses, again, hands the power and the title off.
@strexpowercoltTo a different one. To another angel. Rex. So what? Now we have a chain of, okay, God the Father, Yahweh of Israel, and then another thing working for him also being called Yahweh, all in Exodus.
@inevitablechinaCould this not be what God wanted?
@strexpowercoltWhat I'm saying is, you know, these things clearly do have free will. And if... Again, he even warns them when he hands it off. He's like, yeah, this guy won't forgive. This one's not nice. Not as nice as me, arguably. Like, here, what was the verse? It says, behold, I sent an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared.
@strexpowercoltPay careful attention to him. He says this to them. The angel of Yahweh is saying, pay careful attention to him. Obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions. So he makes clear, because at this point, the angel of Yahweh has already pardoned a lot. Yeah. He threatened to wipe them out and make a new race of people for Moses in Exodus.
@strexpowercoltAnd so he goes ahead and warns them, this other one's not even going to be that nice. He's going to be even worse than me. And again, it says, for my name is in him. So that's a third Yahweh.
@inevitablechinaBut that would be them using their free will at the behest of God, right? As a prophet would, for example.
@strexpowercoltWell, yeah, again, that doesn't mean... Yeah, and I'm not saying that this is God. Every Christian has free will and we try to do things at behest of God. Right. But... In the same way, because we have the ability to not do good, even if we're trying to do what's good, we can still do wrong. We're limited. These things are limited, too.
@strexpowercoltThese things are not on me.
@inevitablechinaBut there's no reason to believe that they did anything outside of the BS of God. Or purposely evil, let's say. Yeah, but these three always, like, if we're going within your internal logic, like, you know, they're still not acting outside of the will of God, from my understanding, right? Like, it seems like God approves upon, like, approves of this transferal process.
@inevitablechinaof, you know, the name, right? Is that kind of like, do you agree with that? Or do you think it's like kind of a gray area?
@strexpowercoltThey were given authority, and I would say even if they're acting at behest of God, let's say, right? They do it poorly. We know they do it poorly because they have to be judged over. Even, by the way, just being judged in this sense, not the same like with how Jesus words about judgment for humans, all of these angels get judged, even if they did the right thing.
@strexpowercoltIt's more of a matter of they were failures, though.
@ceanndachThey failed to live up to the standards. So, Rex, I think there's more than two, because, I mean, even back in Deuteronomy, right, it says there's what, I think it was 70 nations. So, I mean, who's to say that the angel in charge of each nation isn't also a Yahweh for that nation?
@strexpowercoltFor that nation, but that's the issue. The Bible obviously only uses it in reference to whoever the one over Israel. Well, again, but one is going to interact with Israel.
@ceanndachBut if it's a role, right, instead of like an individual, then that means that they're probably changing who's doing it at the time. There doesn't have to be only two.
@inevitablechinaIt sounds like a lot of creative license there, to be honest. It's kind of the God of the gaps, or Yahweh of the gaps at that point.
@strexpowercoltI wouldn't... Yeah, I don't know. I'm just pointing out where in Scripture it does show us, where there's at least, at bare minimum already, just going by from Genesis through Exodus, at least three already. We haven't even got out of the second book. That's before you get out of the second book, where there's at least Elion.
@strexpowercoltThe Father. There's this lesser entity called the Angel of Yahweh that also calls itself Yahweh that appeared to Abraham and Moses and so on. And then it appoints yet another one. So that part's not... That's just the text. That's not an opinion. Now if you say I don't like the text, that's fine. But that's the text. That's not me.
@strexpowercoltI didn't make the text. So...
@inevitablechinaWell, that might not be what the text means, I guess. That's kind of where some of, or anyone who's like asking any questions, it's kind of coming from. It's sort of like that, you know, for example, yeah.
@strexpowercoltI mean, that part of there being three, like, we can go to the verses, we can look at them in the Hebrew, we can look at them as heretic, or if it exists in the Dead Sea Scrolls, because they're kind of scraps, right? They're not all fully there. We can look at that, depending on what it is, and we can look in the Samaritan Pentuk, we can look in the Septuagint.
@inevitablechinaThat would be ideal, the Septuagint, because, like, you know, that's where Christ typically, like, he'll quote...
@strexpowercoltThe Septuagint says pretty much the exact same thing in these verses. Obviously, it doesn't say Yahweh, it says Kyrios, Lord. But it says the same thing in these verses. Yeah, totally. Sometimes instead of Elohim or B'nai Elohim, it'll say angels, but again, the verses for this are the same. Like, it's not... It's not different.
@strexpowercoltIn fact, the Mesoretic is the thing that tries to go away from this some, and it only does it in a few places, and it fails to really... I mean, for lack of a better word, cover it up, because that's what the Jews are doing.
@inevitablechinaSo then, does the context change then for Christ? Because, for example, when Jesus is commanding Satan to bow before a specific deity of Deuteronomy, being Yahweh, you shall fear Yahweh, or Kyrios, you shall worship Kyrios, Your God and Serve Him. For Christ to say that, wouldn't that be an imperfect...
@strexpowercoltHe's calling himself and his father. Christ makes clear his only God is the father. And we do see verses, again, that's a thing, Yahweh's title, we do see Elion, the father, outside of the Masoretic version where it says it in Genesis, but it doesn't say it in any of the other versions. But elsewhere, in Psalms, we do hear Elion being called Yahweh of the whole earth.
@strexpowercoltNot of Israel. He uses the word for the earth.
@inevitablechinaBut have you noticed, like, every time you see the word Yahweh mentioned, or Kyrios... It's typically in the singular. I don't think I've seen any instance, even what you've read so far tonight, where it's been used in the explicit plural. Other than with side-by-side references, which can be contested as simply multiple ways of describing the same being.
@inevitablechinaSo for the Isaiah example that you gave earlier, I believe, that could have just simply been an extended metaphor, or rather an extended possessive metaphor. As Isaiah typically has like quite a bit. I reread Isaiah last year. So like that's kind of that book is kind of known for like these extended possessive metaphor metaphors where they will use like tons of descriptions to describe the same exact singular being or thing.
@inevitablechinaYou know what I mean?
Speaker 3Yeah, no, I understand what you're saying.
@h1storymediaWell, let me let me let me give you something to think about. And then I think Joanne on me did it. I think she wants to say something after this. But here's what I'll say, because you're asking for something. explicit and it sounds like asking for something outside of isaiah well here's something from genesis 19 this is in the destruction of sodom it says this is uh verse 24 then yahweh rained on sodom and gomorrah sulfur and fire from yahweh out of heaven so one yahweh has been here on earth with abraham another another yahweh is in heaven and the fire comes from him now
@h1storymediaIf the author had meant that there was one person, then he had a very easy sentence available. He could have just said, Yahweh rained fire from heaven. But he explicitly used this plural language by saying Yahweh from Yahweh. It's a preposition that marks a source that's distinct from the agent. Even the Septuagint does that too.
@inevitablechinaHe uses the same term.
@h1storymediaYeah, and I used this example earlier in my presentation when I said that, you know, a man doesn't just send a letter from himself in the third person unless he means to reference. Like, the grammar might be ordinary, but the only reason to collapse it is that there was this decision that two of this one title are just not allowed for some reason.
@inevitablechinaWell, couldn't that be, like, superposition, sort of? Right? Or superposition, like, that's the kind of idea, like, the same entity in two different places at the same time. Because, like, otherwise, they would have simply used a plural term for Yahweh and said that Yahweh made it rain brimstone and stuff, like, out of heaven.
@inevitablechinaIn a plural sense, right? No?
@ceanndachOkay, but what about the Council? Right? And it's in the Dead Sea Scrolls, I mean... I don't know what can be said to you that will convince you that there's any merit to the concept, because it seems like you want to pick apart each individual.
@strexpowercoltThe two yellows and the council are two different concepts. They're both linked together, but they're still two different things, I understand that. The council is, it's there. If someone wants to deny the council after all the text provided on it, that's entirely, there's no debating it at that point. It's like, look, it's there, it says it, we can point to the verses where it says it and explain it at length until we're blue in the face.
@strexpowercoltWe can point to wherever the New Testament confirms and speaks about it till we're blue in the face. That isn't near as debatable. The Yahweh thing that people want to debate because the church, again, the church bobbers even accepted the council thing. That's not, again, that's not really until Augustine. So for hundreds of years, they all accepted it until Augustine.
@strexpowercoltSo that isn't really a debate. The debate is the Yahweh thing. And I understand why it's being debated because Joseph Martyr essentially pushed us down the wrong path.
Speaker 4Well, I think that's easily addressed.
@strexpowercoltHere's the Yahweh example where there's a being that is blatantly not alien. It's not God the Father calling itself Yahweh. It's an exodus. And again, we already seen where just a little while ago he bestowed the name on an angel that's not him, no matter how you parse that. You already seen where there's a verse where that happens.
@strexpowercoltBut here's another example. So Exodus, in fact, just reading a few verses through this, a few extra ones will make it more clear, reading it without as much of a translational mess-ups. And Moses was shepherding the flock of Jethro, his father-in-law, the priest of Medan. And he led the flock behind the wilderness, and he came to the mountain of the gods of the Elohim, to Horeb, and appeared Malak, which means the angel, yes, angel, messenger, that's the word angel in Hebrew, Malak.
@strexpowercoltAngel of Yahweh to him, and a flame of fire from the midst of the bush, and he looked, and beheld the bush was burning with the fire, and the bush not was consumed.
@strexpowercoltThis, why not, does burn the bush. And saw Yahweh, that he had turned aside to look, and called to him the Elohim, gods, that's plural, from the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses, and he said, Behold, it is I. And he said, Not do come near here, remove your sandals from upon your feet, for the place which you are standing on is holy ground.
@strexpowercoltAnd he said, I am Elohi, your Elohim, in other words, your God, of your father, Elohi. So again, possessive form. Elohi is possessive. It's the possessive of the hell of shining God. So the God of your father, Abraham, the God of your father, Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And hid Moses his face, for he was afraid to look towards the Elohim.
@strexpowercoltThat's what it says, ha Elohim, the Elohim. English, it certainly does. It does not in the other language. Not even slightly. And said Yahweh, saying, I have seen the affliction of my people who are... Again, it already said this is an angel. Yahweh said, that's the only singular.
@inevitablechinaElohim, Malak, every single term, descriptive term, besides Yahweh, has been plural. Yahweh has been singular the entire time. I think that's why that kind of really fucks with people's heads. It's because like Yahweh is stated as a singular term almost like there's zero plural use of the word.
@strexpowercoltIt's an affordative position, a title, right? It's a title, you know, in this case, it's a governing sort of position, obviously. The usage in the Old Testament and in the New Testament refers to the governors of like the...
@strexpowercoltObviously throughout the books, the people of who we're talking about kind of shifts, obviously, right? Because it shifts from, you know, Moses and the Israelites. It shifts from Abraham and all the Hebrews with him, right? Including Lot and them. But eventually, obviously, they kind of, you know, it shifts throughout the books who we're talking about.
@strexpowercoltBut even then, the people that we're talking about, they're referring to the entities over them. including a very particular one which is over there's a very particular one that is specifically over israel right who's in who is allotted israel particular one but they're referring to all of the entities that preside over them in general the ones that obviously the offers are considering legitimate ones not foreign ones which they mention foreign ones are like we're not supposed to worship those and so on right but ones they consider legitimate
@strexpowercoltAgain, the New Testament doesn't ever disagree with this. It says this thing that's appearing here. It doesn't say it's one thing, even. It says employees.
@inevitablechinaAnd your internal logic has been consistent, too. So, like, you guys, I appreciate that, too. Like, it's definitely making an impression on me. But, like, I think, you know, with the term Yahweh, like, yeah, I think to that point, I understand, to your perspective, that it seems to be the description of, like, a teleological operator, if you will, right?
@inevitablechinaLike, an entity that has a role specifically... Almost like in a metaphysical sense, among others.
@joann_marieThey're kind of like the Elohim.
@inevitablechinaPretty much, yeah, exactly. Yeah, like that has its specific role.
@strexpowercoltIt's more specific because Elohim is anyone's, like, gods, right? But this is specifically the ones of the, you know, to Abraham, the Hebrews, you know, to Moses, the Israelites, later to the Judeans, or, you know, the people of Judah when Judah and Israel split, right? And so on, right? Um... Even to the Edomites and what we've dug up, they call their Elohim the same El Shaddai and they call them Yahweh.
@inevitablechinaBy the way, for example, this is going to sound stupid maybe, but six years ago you could say the pandemic. And we all know it's referring to one thing. And in 1920 you could also say pandemic and it's referring to a completely different substance. So maybe that's kind of what you're... Even though I know that's a pretty shitty way to compare Yahweh.
Speaker 2No, I see where you're going. It's like one thing.
@inevitablechinaThere can only ever be one thing until there's another. And it can be two different things and refer to two different substances. Even concurrently at some points, too.
@strexpowercoltBut it refers to the same... The same role. Yeah, there you go. Yes, the same role. Yes. That's what it does. It refers to the same role, which is why Jesus absorbs the role while he's crucified, after he's crucified. However you want to word that, you know what I mean. Just like he absorbs all the other roles of all the other gods.
@strexpowercoltHe takes them. They're his now. They're all decommissioned. They're all, yeah, get out. Not you all have to go to hell, although some of them will.
@h1storymediaEssentially, the point is this. It functions much more like a title, so once you start looking at it as a title... you could you could look at it as simple as look there have been many kings all throughout history that all held the title of king but they were all different kings they weren't all the same but they they were all very much so different um and so it would be almost like saying anybody who's ever held the title of king was this one individual right and we would kind of say like well that doesn't that doesn't even make any sense because king is a title or
@h1storymediaIt's like saying, by the powers vested in me, when it comes to I am that I am. You know, these are like title functioning statements.
@inevitablechinaNo, I think you guys have made that part clear for me. You know, it's not like I'm 100% sold, but it's definitely making logical sense.
@joann_marieIt's a very confusing concept.
@inevitablechinaYou know, I think it's definitely... Something that's got hundreds of years, thousands of years of debate behind it. But I think they're coming from a consistent perspective. And it's one that is surviving a stress test, which is what I'm trying to do. Not for the sake of anything other than just understanding. But my last question, because I know I've been talking a lot, but my last question is about the Yahweh that essentially wages war on Amalek, right?
@inevitablechinaAnd we understand that typically it seems like every single time we hear about Yahweh, it's been an entity that seems to be working within the will or on behalf of God.
@inevitablechinaDefinitely in simpatico with what God wants at that particular occasion. So then you have the Amalekites, right? Where, you know, of course, for those who don't know, I guess it's like that's when... You know, Israel was commanded to kill the Amalekites and all of their animals and children and all that stuff, take their daughters and stuff.
@inevitablechinaDo you believe then that that would also fall within, or is that the sole exception of a Yahweh that's not a good guy? And how do you explain that difference, if you will? How do you account for that?
@strexpowercoltFirst off, we gotta remember a few things about the ancient world and how different these people were. Odysseus, and I think we can agree on this, Odysseus was considered a great hero to the Greeks, and hell, he's still considered a hero by a lot of people today, right? As a character, right? What's the very first thing he does after he leaves Troy?
@strexpowercoltHe goes and he takes an island, he just steals an island and rapes a bunch of people and takes their ship. That's the very first thing he does. And they never say, oh, that's bad. No, they're like, yeah, that's cool. Yeah. That's the standard of good to... People that we consider honorable and good now that were alive then, though.
@strexpowercoltLike Plato? Plato would be like, yeah, Odysseus is a badass. Okay, there we go. That's what people fought like. The Old Testament talks about this. It talks about the Israelites being pretty awful people. The same Yahweh that gave the laws to Moses, not the one that he sent after, the one that gave the laws to Moses, that one...
@strexpowercoltAs he's given Moses the first two tablets, not the Ten Commandments, but the ones he gives before that that Moses throws down and breaks. He gives him those and he sees this golden cap that's been made and he's so angry with these Israelites. He tells Moses, this is why Moses goes down the mountain. He says, Moses, leave me alone.
@strexpowercoltBasically, he's pissed off being on all repair. Moses, leave me alone for if you stay in my presence any longer, I will wipe them all out and I will make a new race of people from you. That's how angry he is, which I kind of understand after, according to the text, if we believe the text, he just got done contending with a whole bunch of other Elohim, other gods, the ones of Egypt and so on.
@strexpowercoltHe got done doing a bunch of shit there, and he just let them out. Imagine splitting a Red Sea and doing all this, and then they immediately make, it's like, I'm gonna kill Moses. Moses, you gotta go away. I can't take it anymore. They're the worst. They aren't sending their best. I'm gonna make a new race of people from you.
@strexpowercoltyou know no but seriously it's like yeah that's pretty pretty awful people let's be serious for a lot for for a lot of the bible they do pretty awful things and they get judged for it correctly so now well what about the Amalekites here's a here's a problem historically first off we don't know a whole lot about the Amalekites and the issue becomes not even about wiping the adults out or the animals per se the livestock it becomes about well why kill the children well that's the next issue so
@strexpowercoltPicture this. You're this entity that's over these people. Your job and your sole job, because you're not alien, right? You're one of these lesser ones, right? You're a lesser entity, still important, still way above like human grade, but you've been appointed over these people to oversee them. Your job is not the other nations.
@strexpowercoltYou are exclusively tied to the nations that are under you. They are your responsibility. And you were supposed to see that justice and so on is done. Now, You have to contend, and we hear about them contending and fighting. We hear in the book of Daniel, Michael being cited as the Tsar, the Prince of Israel. And we hear about him and another entity that it doesn't name fighting the Prince, Marduk, anyway, the Elohim of Persia, right?
@strexpowercoltTo put it in plain language, just to be consistent here, it says Prince Versar. It says Archangel in translations. And we hear about also the Tsar of Greece, the Elohim of Greece. And we hear about them fighting.
@strexpowercoltWe see texts of the ancient world. These entities, if we believe the text, not just the Bible, but other texts, these entities physically were present. Marduk and many of these others were recorded. Yeah, like Chemosh, wasn't that one of them? Yes, they had kids with people, they had sex, they ate food, they drank, they did things.
@strexpowercoltThey built buildings, they were physically present. Now, if we believe the ancients, same as the Bible, The Bible doesn't deny those things existed. It literally says, yeah, that's the case. These other things are running around and doing stuff. You've got to consider that they're not just considering what will happen if I wipe out the adults.
@strexpowercoltThey're having to consider, well, if I don't wipe out the children, what's that thing going to do? Is he going to make war on me if I don't totally wipe them out? Is he going to raise up these people to be vengeful and attack me? So that becomes an issue if you have to go to war with somebody, because what do you do? And again, it's an entity overseeing.
@strexpowercoltAnd again, a lot of these entities we know because one third of the angels, one third of armies upon armies, myriads upon myriads, again, have to get kicked out in the book of Revelation. After Jesus is crucified, Satan and one third of them. That's a lot. If there's armies and armies of them, we're not talking about a handful like 12 guys or 50.
@strexpowercoltWe're talking about who knows how many. All of these entities up in heaven have to get kicked out because they're rebellious and evil. And again, they were operating here on earth as well. They were coming from the heavens down to the earth and so on. And so how many of these entities were just horrendously evil and would do anything just to destroy and so on, it's hard to even calculate.
@strexpowercoltAnd just taking a step further, the Bible doesn't just talk about good and bad Elohim. It talks about a thing called Shedim, which we can get to that real quick. Shedim's a demon. It's a spirit of a dead Nephilim. What's a Nephilim? Half-breed of a Watcher and a human back before a flood. They had nowhere to go because they weren't supposed to exist.
@strexpowercoltThey were an abomination. The Watchers broke an oath and bred with humans and they weren't supposed to. And so since they had nowhere in the afterlife to go, they, to this day, are demons haunting us and fucking with us. Sumerians talk about them as well. So do the Akkadians. So do Viserians and the Babylonians and yada, yada, yada.
@strexpowercoltThey're a bad thing. They're not good. And people turned and worshiped them. When it talks about human sacrifice, you can find it pretty much every ancient religious text around the world that their gods forbade it. And then some weird new god or something, which the Bible talks about that. It talks about new gods and very clearly depicts them as demons popping up.
@strexpowercoltAnd it's like, oh, yeah. But then we start worshiping the spirit that contacted us, not a god that came down to us in person and told us stuff. No, just some spirit we got. We contacted for drugs or something. Anyway, now we're killing people and sacrificing them to it. Ooh, like Moloch. Moloch's a good example because the Ammonites, the descendants of Ammon, one of the sons of Lot, turned away from, again, the Elohim of the Hebrews, the same Elohim that's the Elohim of Israel, the one that's appointed over them in particular.
@strexpowercoltThey turned away from him and started worshipping Moloch, which is a demon, and sacrificing people to Moloch. The other, the Phoenician text called Moloch Baal, which means Lord, It's just a generic word for Lord. There's about a million other Baals out there, but they call him in particular Baal-Ammon, meaning Lord of the Ammon.
@strexpowercoltWhich, yeah, he's Lord of the Ammonites. Yeah, that makes sense. Then we have, we hear about Kamosh. We know almost nothing about Kamosh. The Bible doesn't detail hardly anything about Kamosh. And outside of the Bible, we have almost, we found little artifacts here and there mentioning Kamosh, but they don't tell us anything.
@strexpowercoltIt's completely passing. So we know almost nothing about Kamosh, the god of the, if he's even a god and not a demon, of the, the Brevard tribe to the Ammonites. Anyway, lots of her kids. Moabites. They're very, very good. Moabites, the Moabites. God of the Moabites, Kamosh. But either way. So we have this issue where we have these entities.
@strexpowercoltThey are contending with each other. You can look at the ancient world. Some of them are claiming to be, I'm in charge of all of them now because I just kicked the other's asses and so on. Like these are not all good. Again, many of them are bad. Even if two thirds were good, there's still a whole lot that aren't. And that's just these heavenly entities, not all these other non-heavenly entities.
@ceanndachIf I could add something, Rex.
@strexpowercoltIt's not God that killed those children to begin with. It's an entity. And these other entities were again also appointed by God and they clearly did bad. So these things have free will and they're not perfect. They don't have perfect foresight. They don't have what God has. They make mistakes. They get stupid. They get emotional.
@strexpowercoltThey get jealous. They even go and get drunk, they have sex, they do things. They're not God. They're very different from God. They're not humans, but they're very different from God.
@ceanndachI think that the objective of Yahweh was to make sure that the people who were bearing the covenant, right, completed that journey to the point where Jesus could be manifested in the covenant. So I think that their actions... That is the same logic that Israel is using right now. That's why he's killing all of the Palestinians so that they can bring their God.
@ceanndachThat's a good point. That is a great point.
@ceanndachAnd that's why they worship Yahweh.
@strexpowercoltWell, again, that's the other issue. Jesus says they don't worship, which I believe, I agree with Jesus on this and with the New Testament that Yahweh handed, Yahweh, the Yahweh over Israel, handed all the ones that were legitimately over Israel, right? That were legitimately there. They handed over to Jesus.
@ceanndachAnd those ones became Christians, right? And the ones who didn't, they're the ones who continued to follow the, you know, the golden calf and their other idol and all of the other things.
@strexpowercoltSatan appeared to Jesus, as we know, trying to tempt him and we know he was kicked out of heaven. And Jesus again says that the Jews that were fighting him, he didn't say they were following Yahweh, you'll notice. He could have said that. He could have said, we're following El Shaddai, we're following God. He said, we're not following any of the gods of our ancestors.
@strexpowercoltHe says, no, you're following Satan. You're following, which Satan's an interesting term because it usually stays untranslated. Satan means, it doesn't mean adversary, it means accuser.
@ceanndachBut he said they're of their father, the devil.
@strexpowercoltYeah. And the devil is the accuser, the devil and Satan.
@inevitablechinaWell, I guess that's another example then of like a teleological role, right? Satan being used as that, as opposed to Lucifer, which is a being. And, you know, often gets conflated as, like, one another.
@strexpowercoltLucifer's a weird one. Lucifer's mentioned in the Old Testament in a metaphor, talking about the Morning Star. I've heard, yeah, yeah. In the New Testament, Jesus compares him, he compares himself to the Morning Star, and that's the only mention of Lucifer to get in the New Testament. He says he's the bright and shiny Morning Star.
@inevitablechinaWould someone call it the adversary, or... I know what you mean, though.
@strexpowercoltWell, that's the issue. It doesn't mean adversary. That word just means the planet Venus in the morning.
@inevitablechinaNo, no, it's Satan being the adversary, I believe.
@strexpowercoltSatan means... They say it means adversary, but that's due to Hebrew linguistics. In Hebrew, believe it or not, you're innocent until proven guilty. In the Old Testament, believe it or not. Crazy, I know. Kind of a good rule of thumb, actually. So you're innocent until proven guilty. In a court, do you know what the prosecutors call?
@strexpowercoltSatan. It's the word for accuser. In their language. That's what it is. There's verses that aren't even talking about a cosmic entity. I mean, there are verses that are talking about some sort of obvious cosmic entity in the Bible. There's plenty of the thing that appears to Jesus and gets kicked out of heaven and so on and appears in the book of Job.
@strexpowercoltBut there's other instances that's not. There's one that famously has been totally misconstrued. We're talking about Kittim, the island of Cyprus, which was an enemy, a military enemy of the Israelites in the Bible. And they say Satan lives in the north, the accuser lives in the north. We're talking about Kittum, who they're literally talking about a land dispute, I believe they're in a war over a land dispute.
@strexpowercoltSo they're accusing us, you know.
@inevitablechinaSpeaking of Job, the Satan that's referred to in Job, that would be like a member of the heavenly council that you spoke about, right?
@strexpowercoltYeah, he's called, in Job he's called specifically Hasatan, so they preface it with the accuser. I want to make a point about that one. The Accuser, as opposed to just, you know, Accuser in general. And he's obviously no good. He does all this horrible crap to Job and the- Or look, maybe that's his job, you know?
@inevitablechinaMaybe that's just simply- Well, that's the other thing.
@strexpowercoltThere's an argument that it's his job, but actually a lot of Christians have argued and also a lot of tykes have also argued. Yeah. And- Well, either way, he's been kicked out of heaven for it, and I think it's because he's overreached. Because basically, what does he do now? He's been kicked out. What does he do to Christians who have been washed by Jesus?
@strexpowercoltWhat do we get told that the dragon does after he's kicked out of heaven? He goes after the seed of a woman and those who hold the testimony of Jesus. He's going after us. Right now, he's totally out of line. As Christians, we are washed. of our wrongs by Jesus, right? We are baptized and we are washed by Jesus of our wrongs.
@strexpowercoltWe are forgiven of our sins, which is the entire thing the accuser goes after is to prove you're guilty. We aren't. We're innocent. We've been made innocent by Jesus. He's going after us to destroy us anyway. He's out of line. He's completely, total rebellion. Even if before he may have been in line, he may have had a real job that made sense because, well, humans did wrong.
@strexpowercoltAnd it was very tough to prove that any human was, you know, Not inherently somehow bad in some way. But that doesn't matter that we are somewhat, you know, that we're flawed and that we can do bad because Jesus has washed us of this. We are free of this. The issue being Satan doesn't like him and a bunch of others don't like that because guess what that means?
@strexpowercoltWe don't have to be under them. We're under Jesus anyway. They've been stripped of their power anyway. If any of them are acting, if an angel appears to you and says it's doing anything on behalf of itself, it's not working for Jesus. It's doing better. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry, Jonathan. I apologize.
@h1storymediaNo, it's OK. I just I wanted to pass it to JoAnn because I think she wanted to say something. And I think. Oh, yeah.
@joann_marieNo, it's just very interesting. And it's also a little bit confusing, but no, it's really interesting. So thank you so much. And let's go to a couple of hands that they've been waiting for a long time. Go for it, Andy. And then we'll go to Joey and then learn to grow foot.
@h1storymediaYeah, I mean, I just thought something about... And just real quick, I appreciate all you guys being so patient. Like, thank you for coming up here asking questions and being willing to hear us out and just being patient. And I really appreciate all you guys.
@froemelandyYeah, I mean, I think, again, I've said this a lot, I think the big issue with religion is it's been getting corrupted from both sides. You have the Zionist faction that's... Corrupting it from you have the Zionist faction that's corrupting it and pushing Christianity like oh you have to support Israel and then you have the then you have your LGBTQ faction that's corrupting it like I don't know if you've been seeing this going around on x this is the point that I came up to make and I was in the listeners and jumped up to make it you have that freaking Texas James Torrico there's literally four minutes of him talking about what Christianity means to him and he's saying crazy things like
@froemelandyProphetic Voices Like Jesus
@froemelandyChristianity. So it's obviously it's both ends of the political spectrum. It's not a right versus left thing. I mean, both sides work in twist Christianity to suit their own purposes. So obviously it's great to actually have a space like I would not consider myself nearly as close to an expert as you guys. But it's just great to listen and absorb the knowledge that you're talking about.
@froemelandyAnd I wasn't in the space the whole time. So this is definitely one that I would. Go back and listen to because it's a true in-depth breakdown that you're not really going to get anywhere else. This is not something you're going to get in some local Bible study group.
@donnaleistAmazing.
@joann_marieThank you so much, Andy. All right. Joey, go for it. Oh, Joey left. All right. Learn to grow food. Welcome. Go for it.
@systemsoverhaulHey, hello. Question for Mr. Truth Teller. I've just recently been, I don't know if he's here. I just joined here recently.
@truthtellerftmSure, go ahead. I'm no expert, by the way.
@systemsoverhaulGo ahead. Have you ever heard of Anatoly Fomenko?
@truthtellerftmYes, I have. It's funny you mention it.
@joann_marieHe knows everything.
@systemsoverhaulI've been itching to get on X. I've kind of been absent, but when I discovered this, I was like, I have to bring this to... Mr. Truthteller, and just to see what your thoughts are on it.
@truthtellerftmAll right, so for those who don't know about Anatoly, he's of the claim that about a thousand years have been added to the timeline. And he bases that based on lunar eclipses, I think it is, the evidence that they claim about the current timeline, and that this is their way of obviously distorting history. I have some notes on it.
@truthtellerftmI haven't looked at it in a while, so let me pull it up and I'll give you my opinion. Is there any truth to it? Look, just one of those things that, again, he's considered a conspiracy theorist and all the rest. A thousand years out of the timeline, claims history has been fabricated. They consider this a radical theory.
@truthtellerftmI did some research on it. There's three eclipses calculated by Greek historians in 431, 424, 413 B.C. in ancient Greece. It doesn't seem to fit.
@truthtellerftmThe fit is actually, well, 1039, 1046, 1057. And this guy's like, I think a Ph.D. in math. He's like, oh yeah, he's a professor as well, like super smart guy. He also claims Jesus was crucified in 1185 A.D. Again, takes the grain of salt. I don't know. Again, a Russian mathematician. He's causing us to question the accuracy of conventional timelines.
@truthtellerftmNow look, would I put it past these people to alter the current timeline that we're on? Absolutely not. They're certainly capable of it because, I certainly have a habit of burning down and destroying libraries where material information is collected with chronological events that are documented with evidence. So it's possible.
@truthtellerftmBased on his evidence alone, look, I'm still researching it. I won't dismiss it. I'm open to it, but I'm not fully convinced yet. So, yeah, it's a fascinating theory, but to be able to just write off a thousand years or, you know... People look at also what took place with the Tartarian Empire between, what, 1200 to 1290, what happened in that period of time, what were those buildings really for, built the way they were, to be able to, of course, harness energy from the ether, another fascinating theory, during the time of Nikola Tesla.
@truthtellerftmAnd the great timeline evidence there, of course, is La Sagrada Familia, right? The church was still building, which started in around that period of time. Look how it's being built, you know, with the quality of the materials used. www.MalcolmReft.com
@truthtellerftmCould there be truth to it? Possibly. If you're asking me, I'm not in a position to give you a straight answer. I'm looking at it. I'm always trying to find more evidence. But yeah, it's a fascinating theory that he has. What are your thoughts on him?
@systemsoverhaulWell, I'm trying to connect the dots here because the Europa, the last battle, what I've watched in that and just learning how much infrastructure was destroyed there and across the planet, I would believe that that was the great empire. I definitely don't put it past these people either. You know what man, I believed wholeheartedly that theory until I read the Cambridge History of China.
@inevitablechinaIt seemed like he literally chose to ignore ancient Chinese astronomical data, because a lot of those records are kept completely preserved, and if you go by the Chinese court astrologers, that totally breaks the timeline theory that he had. Not that it was a poorly thought out one, but until then, again, it took me years to get through it, but when I did, I was kind of like, yeah, that's kind of...
@inevitablechinaThere's no way. It'd be impossible. Otherwise, they would have to be in on it. And I guess, like, you know, they might have to have a retro. It could be. Could be. Who knows?
@truthtellerftmHere's the thing, too, is overlap with China, too.
@systemsoverhaulIf you go back and just look at, OK, the chronology, who gave us this chronology that we all go by? Who gave us this timeline? It was a guy named Scaliger. Scaliger or Scaliger? And I think it was like Italy or France or something. And they took 20 years and they all came together for 20 years to create this chronology for us.
@systemsoverhaulSo, I mean, they spent 20 years with all these people either to give us an accurate historical chronology or to manipulate the shit out of us. And, you know, it just it definitely is worth everyone in their smart minds, everyone that's in this panel and, you know. I just posted a short little video that I thought encapsulates the theory in essence really well on my on my feed but this guy has written so many books and he is he is an esteemed mathematician and other things as well and this is his life work it's worth looking into but it does take a lot a lot of substance to read through so it's gonna take you know some great minds to to digest it and pick what's good and what's wrong but it's I mean I just think it's all bullshit anyway so
@systemsoverhaulWhy write it off? But if you look at the instruments that are used to, I mean, I don't know about the people on this panel or anyone in the listening, do you believe that the carbon dating and the instruments that they use to give us timelines about the Earth or about our existence? I don't believe it.
@inevitablechinaWell, I know it's like around 5,000 years max, like that's where it's accurate. And then past that, you know, that's when you start to get degradation of the radiocarbon dating process, I guess, due to like the... I think it depends on the material.
@joann_marieFor example, we think they cannot know exactly how many years and stuff like that.
@inevitablechinaThey typically go by the decay rate, apparently. That's what they do. The carbon-14 and how it changes when a being dies. I guess the idea is it changes to a different substance, to carbon-12, I guess. and they kind of like stretch out from they kind of just run simulations basically uh to determine like how long a thing has been dead by the decay the rate of decay but like it gets completely out of from what i've heard it gets out of whack like after like 5 000 years and that's like then you go then you have to start using stuff like tree rings now the reason why i believe it is because of how consistent the tree rings are where like basically every ring on a tree is like 100 years and how uh they've been able to like
@inevitablechinacross reference or there's a term for that but like cross reference that data with carbon netting and kind of realize oh the decay rate has been consistent with the tree ring theory or tree ring observation but like yeah dude when they start getting into like potassium ion dating and stuff like that that's when i just i'm like no millions of years and shit like i'm not sure i'm not sure about that
@joann_marieInevitable China, Prophet Daniel Belteshazzar, Darell Lemaire, Serenity, Charlie Carter, Donna Leist Inevitable China, Prophet Daniel Belteshazzar, Darell Lemaire, Serenity, Charlie Carter, Donna Leist
@inevitablechinaThere's like a 200-year window, basically, of being off day. Margin of error. Margin, thank you, jeez. Yeah, there's a, thank you. The 200 years margin of error, you're right. And, you know, then when they start, like, doing the Dead Sea Scrolls, that's kind of like where, oh, jeez, the Jews, like, took advantage of that fully by carbon dating those.
@inevitablechinaAnd, yeah, I definitely hear you, JoAnn.
@truthtellerftmLook, what I've noticed consistently... When going through different types of historical references, books, manuscripts, whatever I can get my hands on, the pattern I notice is it seems like they always want to revise history to make it conform to a narrative that they want to produce for themselves to claim that they're the more evolved generation and that, you know, we're on a trajectory here.
@truthtellerftmAnd they want to hide, you know, more advanced technologies and perhaps more sophisticated technologies. Civilizations that previously existed. They want to claim that, you know, it's almost like they still want to adhere to this theory of evolution. We all just evolved from cavemen thousands of years ago. That's what human beings were before they finally became, what, Homo sapiens, etc.
@truthtellerftmSo I wouldn't put it past him if there was a revised timeline. I don't know if it's a thousand years. It's hard to say. He's, again, based on that, based on his observations of eclipses. Again, he's a genius, Ph.D. in math, specialist in topology, geometry. I wish we'd get him for a space.
@truthtellerftmAnd he's still a math professor. He works in Moscow.
@joann_marieAnd does he speak English?
@truthtellerftmYeah. I mean, everything that I've read there was, again, translated. But he might. I don't know. You have to ask. He's, again, highly controversial. They call him super-scientific. But, I mean, again, he's got a ton of critics. Does that matter, though? I mean, if he can provide evidence for what he's claiming, it should be considered.
@truthtellerftmSo in the scientific community, they're supposed to be objective, but you know how they are. They always want to form a consensus and expect everyone to believe it like with climate change. So they tend to lie a lot. I don't know if you ever come on a space if that's what you're getting at.
@joann_marieI don't know. I always try and sometimes they say yes and it's really surprising. But I mean, I don't lose anything by trying. So, yeah. Well, very interesting. Thank you so much, Trent.
@systemsoverhaulI have a question, too, for H1story Media.
@systemsoverhaulHave you ever heard of the Essene Gospel of Peace?
@h1storymediaI'm sorry, can you repeat that?
@systemsoverhaulHave you ever heard of the Essene Gospel of Peace?
@h1storymediaI have. I'm not as familiar with it as I should be, but I am somewhat familiar with it.
@systemsoverhaulOkay, I was curious. It's kind of led me to my faith and my relationship with Jesus. But to encapsulate it, it's basically, it speaks more on the living word instead of what's been written in books because of all the manipulation. I mean, I hear it and see it all the time. Basically, it's become so confusing for everybody.
@systemsoverhaulIt basically speaks on the angel of sunlight, the angel of water, the angel of stone and rock. It's the bones of Mother Earth. It's basically, it speaks about Mother Earth being what births us. The waters of the earth are our blood. Her bowels are our bowels. Her air, our air, our breath. But basically what it's... It's all made me realize is we're all supposed to be eating fruit and the dead cooked food that we're eating because all the problems in the planet I think are coming from inside of us, what we're putting inside of us.
@systemsoverhaulWhen we eat all the dead decomposing food, we fill our bowels up with worms and parasites and we're going lower in the dimension like below earth instead of rising out. And so there's a...
@systemsoverhaulThe light that's stored inside, we are light beings and the light is stored in the fruits that sit high up in the trees, high off of the ground. And it gives us hydration on a cellular level. It gives us the bio photons that are stored inside of living foods, which is what we're supposed to be eating, allows the communication on a cellular level to communicate at the speed of light.
@systemsoverhauland whenever we decompose and consume all the you know dead flesh or whatever it is you know and I'm not judging anybody's diet I'm not here to preach about that I'm just curious if you'd heard about it and if not you know if you're into the history of Christianity and stuff because I definitely subscribe to the you know what is the living word that God spoke to you on your journey here on this planet when you're in your you know what you've what you've learned it's not necessarily going to come from a book
@systemsoverhauland at the end of the day it's to take care of this temple in my opinion it's you know faith and works faith without works is dead we're not supposed to just get out here and pray you know i pray that i have a garden this year you're gonna have to go out there and plant some seeds you're gonna have to go out there and grow your own fruit and you can grow fruit and do this stuff anywhere but um that's my theory it's been it's definitely changed my life it's helped me lose a lot of weight and i'm strong as a freaking horse i do work every single day
@h1storymediaSo my understanding is, you know, this was published by Edmund, what's his name, Bordeaux, in like the 1900s. And he had essentially claimed that he discovered this sort of ancient manuscript in the Vatican archives. And then he translated them from, I think it was Aramaic or Hebrew or something.
@h1storymediaAnd there's some good, I'll say this. There certainly is some good stuff in there because you find stuff about... The central picture of it gives us Jesus as a teacher of this spiritually disciplined living. It talks about other stuff like peace and love and fasting and cleansing. There's a lot of good content in there.
@h1storymediaThe question that... That I have ultimately is, is this truly an inspired text or is this just something that was published? I kind of lean more towards the latter. I don't really find it to be convincing that it's inspired. But I mean, hey, if you're telling me that you read that and ended up helping you like go and get healthy and really turn your life around, then I'm all for it.
@h1storymedia100%.
@systemsoverhaulI mean, I definitely, I did a seven day fast. I recently did a five day fast and it really opened my eyes to a lot of things. And then, you know, I hear, you know, True Teller's taught all of us in his different health classes about fasting. And there's just so many correlations that gets me, you know, something about the living foods I just think is so important for people because just look around.
@systemsoverhaulWe're so sick and that's what we're doing. We're eating and people are on diets and they're doing all these different things. But Not a lot of people even consider the fact that maybe we're supposed to be leaning towards the fruit. Maybe there is an electrical conductivity that's inside of this fruit. And maybe, you know, the sunlight does have biophotons and it is a part of the communication chamber within the cellular level in our body.
@systemsoverhaulThere's just different things that come from that Essene Gospel of Peace that overlap. But it's all mostly after reading it, you just, for me at least, I come to this understanding of my own, which is I think the real point of it all. is because not everyone has access to the literature, but I think that if you put your heart into it and your mind into it, you'll be led to purity, pure water, pure structured water that come from a tree that pulled out the toxins on its way to produce the fruit.
@systemsoverhaulWe have the color, the senses to sense those colors, and they taste sweet like candy. They try to mimic all these candies, all these Skittles and all this crap to imitate what is a fruit. I mean, if you've ever had a fresh,
@systemsoverhaulA lot of these problems can be eliminated if you have all this living, structured water that's communicating with the cells. It cleans out your lymphatic system, which a lot of the foods that we're eating today clogs up the lymphatic system, which is the waste elimination and cleans out the parasites. And Jesus even talked about taking a gourd to people that were sick in the Ascended Gospel of Peace, taking gourds filled with water and giving them, I forget what that is, where they put the water up their butt.
@systemsoverhauland clean them out.
@strexpowercoltAn enema.
@systemsoverhaulYeah, an enema. A colonic. A colonic, yeah. So anyways, a lot of these overlaps just so happen to be right in line with health, human health, which we're completely out of whack. And so it's been my experience. I'm speaking from experience on that end, and it's just been incredible. It really has helped my mind think clearer.
@systemsoverhaulEverything from financials, just relationships, to the smell of my body, I mean it's a it's a stench that comes from the foods that we're served at least here in America for sure I can't speak for other countries but here uh we're sick fat obese we don't have fruit trees anymore and people don't grow their own food they don't eat a lot of fruit and they look at it like oh I can't eat that it's full of sugar but it's actually one of the healthiest things we could possibly eat in my opinion and it just so happens to be delicious so
@systemsoverhaulI just wanted to put that out there, food for thought. It's brought me closer to my faith in God because I, you know, had my struggle because of all the crazy, just the Zionism nonsense, just all of it. Even before I was aware of that, something just didn't feel right to me. But it's just a personal journey and I wanted to throw those ideas out there.
@joann_marieI love fasting. Thank you so much. And yeah, everybody should try it. It's wonderful. It's hard in the beginning, but then after a couple of days, it gets easier. Yeah, like you get... Like L40, kind of. It's awesome. All right, Joey, go for it.
Speaker 5Yeah, interesting conversation, guys. So I was wondering, what years are we saying got fast-forwarded?
@donnaleistTruth is not in the panel anymore, but we can ask him in his other space.
Speaker 5That was for Rex.
Speaker 3I wasn't making any claims about timeline being changed. That wasn't new. That was a side quest.
@ceanndachThat was truth telling.
@joann_marieYeah, it was truth and yeah.
Speaker 5Okay, I was gonna try and debunk it, but okay.
@systemsoverhaulI think we all claim we're not experts just throughout the theory and the guy's name, Anatoly Fomenko, but you can check out his Translated from Russia. There's a YouTube video where he kind of encapsulates it a little bit for you, the essence of what he's doing.
@strexpowercoltI've read them. They're called, a long time ago, they're called New Chronology. That's the books to look up and the thing to look up. However, no, I don't subscribe to it, so no, I can't address it.
@h1storymediaNow, just be forewarned, because when you pick up new chronology, this isn't something that you could just read 30 minutes before you go to bed. It's a serious reading. It covers a lot. It's extremely in-depth. But it's good. It's fun to read, even if you disagree with it. It's still fun to read.
Speaker 5I'll check it out, thanks guys
Ian MalcolmI got to say, JoAnn and I were in the back channels just messaging back and forth. Maybe the first 30 minutes I was like, what are we doing here? Because it was a lot, right? Very, very dense. And what I really appreciate is that as we've gone through this, and I think it was Inevitable China that kind of came in a little while back and when you guys were going through this, the way that you were kind of defining
Ian MalcolmI don't want to say that it's when it clicks because it had prior, but I really liked when we kind of simplified things to the point that it was easier to follow along with. And when we did, I thought it became a very, very interesting conversation. Now, we've kind of gone down a whole bunch of different paths to the point that we're talking about, you know, watermelons and liquid enemas and all kinds of other things.
Ian MalcolmBut the overarching thesis, you know, as I Thank you for having me.
Ian MalcolmIt's one that I'm going to have to stew on a whole bunch before absorbing into kind of this worldview that I have. And I'd be kind of curious for H1story Media's thoughts, because when he kicked off the space, he said that this was something where, you know, initially it challenged and then ultimately reaffirmed and deepened his faith and his understanding.
Ian MalcolmI'd be kind of curious for him to go back now, having gone through and unpacked this entire conversation. But I mean, JoAnn, we've gone so many different directions. I don't know if I could say what I thought in totality of all of it, but the overarching thesis is certainly one that's very fascinating. That's one of the most interesting parts about religion is the more you unpack these things, the more complex this all becomes.
Ian MalcolmAnd so just like H1story Media just said, right, like this idea that it's not a 30-minute read, I really do find it interesting that we have so many of these spaces that all of them... You know, we could probably have him back on and St. Rex and History Media could spend the next two weeks unpacking this issue more and more and more.
Ian MalcolmAnd we would just learn more and more about it. Right. And so I just I find it incredible that not only is this maybe as complex and interesting as it has certainly been, but that as we've gotten and wind down that, you know, there's even been elements where people were just talking about things they've learned from truth teller and from his.
Ian MalcolmSpaces on health and wellness, right? That we're essentially creating this database of ideas that people are able to bounce off and kind of think about and to mix or not mix in with their larger worldview. And just like with health and wellness, frankly, the things that I've learned from Truth that I have merged into my life, all of them have been for the better, frankly, right?
Ian MalcolmAnd so I just find this very, very, very fascinating. But JoAnn, I'm curious for your thoughts.
@joann_marieYeah, no, I still don't like the Old Testament that much. I like the new one. It's simpler for me. I think Jesus is God and I believe in the Trinity and the old one just confuses me and I just don't like it. But I find this topic interesting and I learned a lot. So, yeah, thank you. And I have the dates for tomorrow. We have...
@joann_mariePrefrontal Cortex and Noticing with Amiru Then on Monday We have something on Sunday that I keep forgetting what it is Ian, I don't remember what we were doing on Sunday But I think you told me that we were doing something I just don't remember Okay, on Monday we have Malcolm Monday, the first one And I don't remember also who we have scheduled And then on Tuesday we have Ancient America with Willing Witness On Wednesday we have Real Conspiracies
@joann_marieJim Fetzer, Casey Whelan, and then on Thursday we have Ask a Health World Expert Anything with Rob. So yeah, we have an amazing week coming up, so I'll see you guys here tomorrow. Very interesting topic, so it was awesome.
@froemelandyDid you schedule anything for November 3rd? Are we doing a midterm space or what's the plan for that?
@joann_marieWe have scheduled all the way to half of January, Andy.
@froemelandyWow.
@joann_marieI know, I'm very proud of this. It's just absolutely amazing.
Speaker 6That is all JoAnn, Andy. I cannot take it. I don't know how she keeps track of it. It's crazy.
@joann_marieIt's amazing. This is just a wonderful, wonderful space. So, yeah. All right. Let's go to the last hand because I think Truth Teller is going to open.
@joann_marieI don't know.
@holdonitsnatureJoAnn. Hi. Lovely JoAnn. No, I just wanted to say, keep it up, guys.
@holdonitsnatureEveryone's doing awesome. I appreciate listening to you guys talking. And I know it's probably tiresome. That's just the way this thing works, like propaganda. You guys sticking with it for as long as you have. Ian, Truth, JoAnn. A lot of these guys, I understand it's very, very tiresome. So I just want to tip my hat and say thank you and please keep it going.
@holdonitsnatureI know it's not a rewarding thing to do. It's not going to pay you as much as people may accuse you of being paid. So please keep it going and everyone's doing a fantastic job.
@holdonitsnatureI appreciate you guys. And everyone in this space really should. It's really tough because opportunities will be denied if they can figure out who you are. And people don't appreciate how much saying some of this stuff can ruin your life, right? So just, yeah, appreciate you. Thank you, JoAnn. JoAnn.
@joann_marieThank you so much for coming up. No, I don't get tired. This is where I come to get white-pilled and inspired and get hope for the world. I love it here. So, no, I don't get tired. So, thank you. I appreciate it.
@holdonitsnatureAll right, all right.
@joann_marieYeah, thank you so much for being here. And everybody, you guys are an absolutely amazing community. So, thank you.
@holdonitsnatureOf course.
@joann_marieAll right. And I think truth opened. I'm going to post it in the Jumbotron. And Ian, would you like to say anything else?
Ian MalcolmWell, I think the thing that I would say is just to that comment, the energy that JoAnn has, the positivity, it keeps us going. It keeps us on track. She really is not just the co-hostess with the most. She makes this. But JoAnn, you know what it is? You, in a sense, you are the fuel for this fire, right? It's like you could have a race car, but it does not matter if it doesn't have gasoline in the tank.
Ian MalcolmAnd you are the gas, let me tell you. And I think that that gas is creating an inferno of truth that are bringing a whole lot of different people for different subjects, just like the one that we just covered here. And I just want to thank History Media and St. Rex, right, for coming and bringing. And I kicked off the...
Ian MalcolmYou know, and this is one where I'm gonna have to go back and listen again to the first, like I said, maybe the first 30 or 45 minutes of H1story Media's presentation because it was so, so in depth and the kind of litigious way that he went through it was really fascinating, right? Looking at the specific passages to justify a worldview that might sound a little bit, you know, controversial, but it was very logic driven.
Ian MalcolmI can really appreciate that because We get lots of people who make lots of claims based on lots of emotions. Very few that can say, here's why I believe what I believe. Watch me do the math, right? And so I thought it was fantastic. And it was also really interesting just to be able to sit back, listen to somebody present something so challenging and controversial and just listen to everybody's reactions to it.
Ian MalcolmIt was really fascinating. And so I just want to thank him. I want to thank St. Rex. Thank you so much for joining us.
Ian MalcolmSo many others, Belteshazzar and other friends that came in. I just want to thank everybody for being here. I want to thank everybody for being part of this, right? Whether you listened, you commented, you critiqued, you challenged, whatever the role might be. I think it was Jay-Z who said, you can be anywhere in the world and you're here with us.
Ian MalcolmAnd so we appreciate that. And that's absolutely the case. And so, no, JoAnn, I'm just... I'm so grateful for everybody, for everything, for certainly you, and for all that we're building. So, so much love, and as always, certainly good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Certainly God bless for everything that all of you are, and a God who maybe we look at a little bit different after this space, and certainly Godspeed.
Ian MalcolmWe will continue again exploring the unknown, challenging the known, and trying to look into the times when the knows might be leading us astray, as they often do. But JoAnn, absolutely awesome. And kind of curious if you've got any kind of final thoughts, words, a prayer, or perhaps maybe an outro for us.
@joann_marieI have an outro. No, I just absolutely love it here. You're so inspiring, Ian. You know, like, I would not... I have no idea where would I be if it wasn't for you. You're seriously the inspiration of my life. It's just absolutely beautiful. So thank you. And H1story Media, you and St. Rex, you guys did a wonderful job.
@joann_marieI did understand a lot of things that I didn't before, and I still have a lot of questions about stuff, but it's... Thank you so much. So it was wonderful. So guys, please all follow them. Follow Ian, follow everybody on the panel, Balthazar, Ryder Midnight, everybody here. So thank you. And I have Joey Good, Unity, and I will play it.
@joann_marieAnd I'll see you guys tomorrow.
Ian MalcolmAll right, going to fire that up. Everybody head over to Mr. Truth Teller's room. That is up in the nest that JoAnn just put up. And I also added to that from Lindsay. We've got the F rule from Mr. Truth Teller. In case you can't head over to that space, you might not be familiar with his F program. But if you're not, certainly check that out.
Ian MalcolmCheck out his space. Again, absolute superstar and hero. So, JoAnn, back to you.
@joann_marieAmazing.
@h1storymediaReal quick, can I just say, I just want to say one closing thing.
@h1storymediaof course okay thank you i'm sorry i didn't mean to interrupt your closing but i just wanted to say thank you guys so much ian joanne really appreciate it i know i know a lot of this is probably brand new for a lot of people and it's probably really confusing i really appreciate you guys being willing to let me up and really explain uh the things that
@h1storymediaI believe and I really do believe that these things are true so I will always continue to uphold all of them and any questions that people still have they're open hopefully we can continue to have these conversations in the future and Ian, JoAnn you guys are so amazing and I hope that you guys continue to do the fantastic job that you always do so thank you again
@joann_marieI know, thank you. You did such a wonderful job. And I forgot to thank Dank again. Guys, please follow Dank. He put all of Ian's spaces on Rumble, Spotify, Apple Podcasts and IanMalcolm84 and on Malcolm's spaces. He's an absolute superstar and he's just absolutely amazing. We love you so much, Dank. So thank you so much.
@joann_marieAnd yeah, no, you guys did brilliant. So I'll see you guys tomorrow and let me... Play, you know.
Ian Malcolmkind of growing intellectual army around these subjects. And so, JoAnn, maybe maybe there's some distant future in which we'll have our monthly spaces with a little color coding or something so that people know, is it religious in nature? It's science, it's history, it's whatever. Just so that individuals like history media with these really interesting, nuanced views can come in just the same as, for example, Bryce might join us when we talk about some of the founding fathers, for example, right?
Ian MalcolmBecause he's so informed on it. But either way, just so honored. H1story Media and St. Rex, thank you guys so much.
@joann_marieAll right.
Speaker 3No, I was just saying thank you.
@joann_marieOh, no, thank you so much. You guys did wonderful. All right, I'm going to play it.
Speaker 7In an endless flood of angry men with foreign blood To slowly bleed your country dry And let the Christian culture die And still you fail to see the truth This violent crime soars through the roof The corporations lick their teeth As boats of migrants flood the beach So many perish to defend The place on which we all depend Oh please just try to understand Our future rests upon this land But corporations had a goal
Speaker 7Globalist behind the scenes have set us up to take a fall their plan is to enslave us all and what you think is charity is self-inflicted poverty for people who are poor and weak will lose their basic right to speak they fund the hatred on the right to make sure that the people fight and in between us build a wall because divide
Speaker 7Garg's who make the rules are playing all of us for fools We must stand together and unite for this is everybody's fight You need to get it through your head, your future's hanging by a thread Let's stand as one in unity and destroy our common enemy Together we are unstoppable Together we are invincible
