Name: ADL Origins & Mary Phagan
Uploaded: 2026-08-20
Duration: 5 h 7 min 45 s
Description: A century-old case file slowly accrues redactions and revisions across shifting Southern interiors, from gaslit streets to fluorescent press rooms, as truth is buried and exhumed.

Held here entire — 1,073 passages across 40 chapters, set down from the first word to the last. The colour shifts with the film’s own mood as each chapter plays.

Now playing · warm, expansiveDevil Went Down to Georgia

0:00 / 5:07:44

Chapters — 40

0:00warm, expansiveDevil Went Down to GeorgiaThe host introduces the theme of the Space with a musical interlude.
5:00heated, combativeLeo Frank Case & ADL OriginsThe host connects the song to the Leo Frank case and the ADL's founding.
9:38calm, distantMary Fagan Keene's IntroductionMary Fagan Keene, great-niece of Mary Phagan, introduces herself and her connection to the case.
14:01raw, woundedMary Phagan's Murder & TrialMary Fagan Keene details the 1913 murder of Mary Phagan and Leo Frank's conviction.
19:10cool, analyticalADL's Role & Media InfluenceThe discussion shifts to the ADL's formation and its influence on the narrative surrounding the case.
23:40weathered, resignedUpdates on the Leo Frank CaseMary Fagan Keene shares recent developments and changes in the public discourse about the case.
28:30cool, analyticalElon Musk & Free SpeechMary Fagan Keene credits Elon Musk for providing a platform for her story.
31:40grave, forebodingJewish Supremacy & Historical ParallelsThe conversation broadens to discuss Jewish supremacy and contemporary issues.
36:00hard, unyieldingADL's Foundation & Johnson's RoleThe panel discusses the ADL's founding and Lyndon B. Johnson's family connection.
40:00grim, scorchedSmearing Mary Phagan's CharacterMary Fagan Keene exposes attempts to discredit Mary Phagan's character in historical accounts.
44:00detached, weighingADL's Influence on TextbooksThe discussion highlights the ADL's role in shaping educational materials about the case.
48:00warm, expansiveMary Fagan Keene's Personal JourneyMary Fagan Keene shares her personal connection to the case and her journey as its advocate.
52:00sombre, searchingThe Vigilance Committee & LynchingThe panel discusses the true nature of Leo Frank's lynching, debunking KKK involvement.
56:00disillusionedGovernor Slaton's CommutationThe discussion covers Governor Slaton's controversial commutation of Leo Frank's sentence.
1:00:00murky, uneasyPatterns of ExploitationThe conversation delves into historical patterns of exploitation and moral transgressions.
1:04:00guarded, evenADL's Current TacticsThe panel discusses the ADL's contemporary methods of silencing critics and controlling narratives.
1:08:00smouldering, restlessKanye West Concert & ADLThomas shares insights on the upcoming Kanye West concert and potential ADL involvement.
1:12:00measured, soberFuture Spaces & Historical TopicsIan Malcolm previews upcoming discussions on historical and geopolitical topics.
1:16:00bleak, drainedMass Migration & Cultural GenocideThe conversation addresses mass migration and its implications for cultural identity.
1:20:00tentative, hopefulHigh-Trust Societies & Guilt vs. ShameThe panel explores the concept of high-trust societies and the differences between guilt and shame cultures.
1:24:00worn, nostalgicCompliments & Human ConnectionThe discussion shifts to the importance of genuine compliments and positive human interaction.
1:28:00unsettlingCultural Differences & GoverningThe panel debates the ability of different cultures to govern themselves and maintain civilization.
1:32:00eerie, electricIslam, West, and TrustThe conversation delves into the compatibility of Islam with Western society and the role of trust.
1:36:00warm, expansiveFinal Thoughts & Call to ActionIan Malcolm concludes the Space with a call to action and appreciation for the participants.
1:40:00hard-wonMary Fagan's Legacy & ADL's ControlIan Malcolm reiterates the importance of Mary Fagan's story and the ADL's historical influence.
1:44:00dimmed, waryFuture Conversations & CommunityThe host looks forward to future discussions and emphasizes the value of open dialogue.
1:45:00dry, matter-of-factLeo Frank Case DetailsUncover the true story of Leo Frank's lynching and the powerful figures involved.
1:56:02broodingJewish Prostitution RingsExplore the dark history of Jewish prostitution rings, including the Zvi Migdal gang.
2:01:38melancholy, tenderADL's Role in History RevisionMary Fagan's family discusses the ADL's alleged whitewashing of history.
2:10:20conflicted, dividedMary Fagan's Family SilenceMary Fagan's family vow of silence and its impact on the case narrative.
2:19:53grave, forebodingADL's Denial of Frank's GuiltMary Fagan discusses the ADL's refusal to acknowledge Leo Frank's guilt.
2:27:27raw, woundedThe Power of the 'Anti-Semitic' LabelDiscussion on how the 'anti-Semitic' label is used to silence critics.
2:33:14charged, alertThe Moloch CharacterA mysterious caller claiming to be Moloch disrupts the conversation.
2:45:04smouldering, restlessKanye West Concert DiscussionThomas shares inside details about setting up Kanye West's concert stage.
2:55:22measured, soberFuture Space TopicsIan and JoAnn outline upcoming space topics, including Nazi technology and Antarctica.
3:08:50bleak, drainedThe Clergy Plan and Mass MigrationDiscussion on the 'Clergy Plan' and its alleged role in mass migration and cultural change.
3:30:00heated, combativeJewish Supremacy and SocietyDavid Nietzsche discusses Jewish supremacy and its impact on high-trust societies.
3:50:00tentative, hopefulGuilt vs. Shame-Based SocietiesRabbi and David debate the differences between guilt-based and shame-based societies.
4:27:10warm, expansiveHigh-Trust Societies and CultureDiscussion on the origins of high-trust societies and their relationship to culture and religion.
4:47:19calm, distantFinal Thoughts and Future SpacesIan Malcolm wraps up the space, thanking guests and previewing upcoming discussions.

The Transcript

A voice is named only when we can verify it — by voiceprint, an @handle present in the room, or the Space’s own title. Anyone we can’t confirm stays “Speaker,” on purpose.

Speaker 1I'm a fiddle player too, and if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you. Now you play pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due. I bet a fiddle of gold against your stove, because I think I'm better than you. What's that money?

Speaker 1But I'll take your bet you're gonna regret cause I'm the best there's ever been. Johnny Ross and a beer boy playin' fiddle hard.

Speaker 2Coast Hills, Provo, St. George and the devil deals cards.

Speaker 1If you win you get the shiny fiddle made of gold. If you lose the devil gets you stoned. The devil opened up his case and he said I'll start this show.

Speaker 1and I'll see you next time.

Speaker 1I'm going to show you how it's done.

Ian MalcolmI'm going to have to ask, are you able not to name that artist, but can you name that tune and perhaps the reason for its use in this space?

@joann_marieHey Ian, thank you so much for hosting. I'm going to guess The Devil Went Down to Georgia. And I think in the lyric it says my name is Johnny. So is someone maybe Johnny the singer?

Speaker 2I don't know.

Ian MalcolmWell, no, you're on the right track. So The Devil Went Down to Georgia is the name of that track. And we're going to be talking a good bit about, of all places, Atlanta, Georgia, the scene of... This dastardly devilish act that took place. And what do you know? It happens to, of course, be at the hands of Jewish supremacists.

Ian MalcolmAnd so we are going to be hearing from the one and only Miss Mary Fagan, or at least her descendant, I should say. So we're going to be hearing firsthand from the lineage of this famed individual. and this infamous case with Leo Frank. And there's a lot of aspects of this that people are familiar with. The piece I think is probably the most consequential and critical is that this of course is the origin story of all things of the ADL, which we look around today.

Ian MalcolmAnd if we look at who is it that's pushing all of this censorship across all of these social media apps, It's Jonathan Greenblatt and the rest of the Anti-Defamation League, the ADL. So when they were founded, what is it that they were founded to do? And wouldn't it be really weird if the group that currently has a large hand in what we are and are not permitted to say about a certain group of people were founded because they wanted to protect the reputation of a pedophilic rapist murderer?

Ian MalcolmAnd that brings us to the devil in this case. That would be Leo Frank, the scene of the crime that would be down in Georgia. And hence the song that we just heard there. It's actually, that was a live rendition too, which it's pretty remarkable when you think about it. Because back then, I think that song was in the 70s, right?

Ian MalcolmAnd the band that made it, right? You got a lead singer who's out there playing the fiddle as he's singing at the top of his lungs. Moving around the stage, the guy, he has to be 40 or 50 years old in the song there. But just such a far cry from what we get today with the electronic nonsense music and a whole bunch of talentless individuals, right?

Ian MalcolmAnd so that being said, we will, we're going to open it up in two ways. We are going to recommend anybody that would like to come up and join the conversation, certainly do so. Because where we are going to be taking this, again, it's been a story that's been unpacked. A couple different ways. We did a space with Mr. Truth Teller.

Ian MalcolmWe talked about the history of this case, right? But what's going to be very interesting, not only are we going to get to hear specifically from Mary Fagan Keene, but we are also going to get to hear some of the updates, the newest bits of information that have been added, that have been put into the book that is out there available for all of us to go and read and support.

Ian MalcolmSo we're going to be hearing about some of those updates that have been made. We will also, of course, open it for Q&A. So if anybody would like to come up, we'll probably do about 30 to 45 minutes talking specifically not just about the case, but in particular, some of these updates that have been made. Then we'll open it up.

Ian MalcolmSo if anybody has questions about this devil who went down to Georgia and did all these dastardly things, certainly feel free. Come on up. We'll welcome one. Welcome all. And with that being said, why don't we turn things over to JoAnn? Anything that I might have left out there, JoAnn? And if not, we could go and introduce Mary Fagan here.

@joann_marieNo, hey, and thank you so much for hosting. And Mary, awesome talking to you again. And guys, please repost this space. And if you guys go into it, I will also repost it. Bookmark it. It helps. So, so, so much with the algorithm. And also follow Ian and Mary and Tim and Truman, Burbank, that are up here. And please check Ian Malcolm also on Rumble, on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, and on Ian Malcolm.

@joann_marie84.com and show allegedly thanks and love because he has done amazing. So yeah, I posted all of those things in the purple pill and I'm really happy to be here. I love this topic and I'm so honored to be with Mary Fagan again. How are you, Mary?

@joann_marieMary? I think you need to unmute. Oh, okay, let's recycle her.

Ian MalcolmRight off to a little bit of a rocky start here. We'll get this back up. There we go. Let's see if that works for me.

@joann_marieAre you back?

@phagankeanYes, am I back? Yes, welcome back, Marie. You know, I'm 72 years old and I don't know how to do all this stuff. You're doing amazing. Thank you, Ian, for helping me get back on.

Ian MalcolmOh, of course. And thank you for being here. And again, Mary, extremely excited. You know, anytime we hear that there are some new updates to this, it's really, you know, it's not just interesting. It's extremely consequential, especially in the world that we find ourselves in, where the group that, again, Thank you so much for joining us.

Ian MalcolmAnd then we can zoom all the way down and start unpacking some of these pieces that are kind of brand new to this puzzle.

@phagankeanAll right, that sounds wonderful. My name is, this is very unusual for me to do this, but I'm adjusting as I'm doing the podcast. I'm introducing myself. My name is Mary Fagan Keene, hyphen Keene. I'm the great niece and namesake of little Mary Fagan, who was age 13. who was raped and murdered in the National Pencil Company by Leo Frank in 1913.

@phagankeanShe went to pick up her paycheck for $1.20 for the week before when she was laid off and because it was Confederate Memorial Day, she was not aware that payday pickup was available on Friday instead of Saturday. And she did ask one of her friends to pick up her paycheck, but she said that they refused to give it to her.

@phagankeanSo she went Saturday and she never came home. The case is very famous because it is the first time in the history of the South, and probably in our country at that time, that colored people were allowed to testify in the trial and that Leo Frank was convicted based on some testimony by the colored people. That is very significant and very important.

@phagankeanBecause the defense team used white privilege, including Leo Frank, he said no white man killed Mary Fagan. This is a Negro crime through and through. So it was that and Jim Conley, the black man or colored person that was accused as an accessory and went to jail for a year for it, testified against Leo Frank and he did an awesome job.

@phagankeanHe was under... Cross-examination by the most expensive, best lawyers Leo Frank could ever have. They were paid like 15,000 grand each or more for 1913. So you can imagine what kind of money that is today. And their whole defense was, again, white privilege, and Jim Conley did it. And that was their whole defense. So it was based on circumstantial evidence.

@phagankeanThe trial, it was a... The jury was 12 men. Women were not allowed to be on juries back then. So it's a very significant case. Some people have associated it with the KKK, but I found out in my research that that is not true. It was the birth of a nation that actually caused the rebirth of the KKK, not the flinching of Leo Frank.

@phagankeanSo eventually he was lynched in 1915 because the governor on his last day in office commuted his sentence from death by hanging to life in prison. So that's the basic story. After the conviction of Leo Frank, his rabbi, he was Jewish. Ironically, none of the newspapers ever stated he was Jewish. And ironically, the ADL won't tell you that the editors of the newspapers, the three papers at the time, the Journal, the Constitution, and the Atlanta Georgian, had Jewish editors and they were very pro-Frank.

@phagankeanBut the rabbi went to New York to Adolf Ochs, owner of the New York Times, and claimed the word that I Hate Now, Antisemitism. It doesn't mean anything today anymore. It's just an overabuse of things. So he claimed that he was convicted because of antisemitism, and then it came out supposedly mobs were yelling, hang the Jew or we'll hang you.

@phagankeanAldolf Ochs goes to Chicago to Albert Lassifer, who is a very financial, wealthy billionaire philanthropist, and they decide that even though they, in their biography, suspected he may have been guilty, they put in funding And the funding's still going today to prove that he was not guilty. And so it came another war between the states, a mini-war between the states through the newspaper articles.

@phagankeanInteresting enough, it needs to be noted that the New York Times had nothing to do with the trial or the pre-trial of the case at all. They only printed like six articles that were... Let me get to that. I've got my book here, so I just wanted to let you know what they talked about during the trial. They had no interest in this trial.

@phagankeanSo the Atlanta Journal of Constitution, of course, it was a full page of newspaper articles just about the case and everything. But the newspaper, here's the newspaper articles that the New York Times presented. In May of 24, 1913, it says, Politics Emashes a Murder Mystery, May 25, 1913. Indicted for Girls' Murder, July 11, 1913.

@phagankeansays, New Fagan murder tale, August 5th, 1913, says employer, slew girl, August 22nd, 1913, Atlanta murder case to jury today, and August 27th, 1913, Frank sentenced to die. The trial was, of course, she was murdered on Confederate Memorial Day, April 26th, so from April 28th, Thank you for joining us.

@phagankeanThat's the short version of the case. So I'm here to update you on a lot of things that have just been very strange lately for our family. Jonathan Greenblatt, yesterday was the 100th and 11th year of Leo Frank's lynching. And here in Atlanta, and especially in Marietta, where he was lynched at, there was nothing. Nothing.

@phagankeanEvery year, Jonathan Greenblatt prints the same thing over and over again about Leo Frank and all he says is may he be blessed and we have a blessing and he's such a blessing and all this kind of thing. There was nothing yesterday about the lynching of Leo Frank. Why do you think that is, Mary? I don't know. The Governor Barnes, Rabbi Levi, Rabbi Lebo, they usually have pictures of them at the marker that they have for the lynching where Leo Frank has a marker because he was lynched.

@phagankeanNothing. I mean, nothing. And this is just amazing. But before that, August 2nd, I had written a letter to the Strand Theater, the Marriott Strand Theater, because they're doing a musical parade here.

Speaker 3Let me get my stuff over here. I've got the articles and everything there.

@phagankeanBut yes, it was August 2nd. So I wrote this letter to them and told them that the Leo... The Broadway Parade was not the true story of Leo Frank. It was just a hate on a stage from 1988 to 2026. And so I wrote this letter. And the one thing that I did different this time when I sent letters out, I sent everybody a copy of my book.

@phagankeanAnd I highlighted the page numbers and chapters which discussed my comments. And so I can show them with evidence. That what they have been thinking all along has not been real and that that was just a fairy tale. So, you know, I didn't think anything about it. And my sister calls me. She says, Mary, have you seen the Marietta Daily Journal on August 2nd?

@phagankeanI said, no, what's going on? She said, it's on the front page again. I said, what do you mean? She said, it needs to be done. And what it is, is they're talking about the Strand bringing parade and the Leo Frank story back to Marietta. This is the first time ever. That they have not said he was accused, wrongly accused, wrongly convicted, you know, wrongly lynched, all this stuff that they've been going on for the last 110 years.

@phagankeanIt wasn't there and they actually admitted it was not historic. What a shock. The Marietta Daily Journal doesn't do that. They totally support Roy Barnes and Rabbi LeBeau. For the exoneration of Leo Frank, which currently is under review. It happened with Fannie Willis. You all know her. You've heard of her. She's the district attorney with Donald Trump, and she lost and had to pay Bucu's money.

@phagankeanWell, Bucu's money to me is $56,000 that she had to pay because she didn't release records and everything. So I then wrote another letter to the Fulton County commissioners, Fannie Willis' bosses in Carpenter, and again, I sent the books of them and told them...

@phagankeanor at my website www.littlemaryfagan.com and I certainly appreciate it. All the funds will go to a legacy project or to a documentary that I'm looking at producing right now. So I appreciate you all if you could help me with that. That's what I need to do. I need to get like a hundred reviews on Amazon Cobb to kick a new out of the rigum.

@phagankeanSo I'm like, I think I've got... 78 books now on Amazon. But if we can get to 100, the algorithm changes and they start supporting my book and it starts getting out a little bit more. So that would help a lot. But yeah, it's really been strange. These updates have just thrown me for a loop. I just cannot believe it. And even for the anniversary yesterday, I mean Monday, for the lynching, nothing in the Atlanta Constitution and nothing in the Marietta Dale journey about his lynching.

@phagankeanNothing.

Ian MalcolmStrange. And Mary, it's probably... I shouldn't say it is, but it might be linked to the fact that, of course, not just this space, but obviously you've been doing an incredible job making the rounds, trying to share this story and bring it to, you know, obviously not the mainstream because they're just going to cover everything up, but to as many people that are willing to just honestly evaluate what took place here.

Ian MalcolmAnd one thing that I'd be kind of curious about, Mary, is around this piece of history.

Ian MalcolmYou've obviously put together these books, which are, you know, they're incredibly detailed. They go into all the ins and outs and they present an irrefutably accurate depiction of what took place. I'd be curious, are there kind of short form renditions of this that you've seen that perhaps other people have put together that could be delivered via...

Ian MalcolmI don't want to say a cartoon because that's just going to sound silly, but something that's perhaps animated or illustrated in a shorter form video rendition. And I bring it up because if not, I've been seeing the amazing work that Forbidden HQ has been putting out of late, that even Candace Owens has been not only resharing, but she also shared the entirety on her program.

Ian MalcolmAnd I mean, they're like 60 seconds in length and they're Thank you so much for joining us.

Ian MalcolmThank you so much.

Ian MalcolmThank you so much for joining us.

@phagankeanAnd then I have the X, which has really been my salvation, to be honest with you. Elon Musk saved my life, I mean, in the way, in the direction that I needed to go into. And I can't thank him enough for buying Twitter and it becoming X, because it gives me a lot of freedom. And right now what I'm doing on X and Facebook, and my website too, I shouldn't say that.

@phagankeanYeah, yeah, all three of them. I'm sorry. All three of them. I'm doing a program called You Are There. So every day of the trial, since it started July 28th, I have printed the top three newspaper articles of the case every day so people can see the evidence for themselves of what I looked at and how that it's never mentioned that Leo Frank is Jewish.

@phagankeanNever mentioned. They never say Jewish superintendent of the National Pencil Factory. So they can verify. I'm letting people verify themselves. Thank you so much for joining us.

Ian MalcolmThe call out there for Elon Musk, obviously, I critique some of the bias and the suppression. I know that your story above all others, certainly in that suppressed category, because this is something that the ADL doesn't want attention brought to. And I'm sure the advertisers, as Jonathan Greenblatt would call it, they don't want anything to do with this.

Ian MalcolmBut nonetheless, there's a part of me, and I'm kind of curious for your thoughts on this, Mary, because There's part of me that to your comment on Elon, he's opened a door. And the weird thing is, I mean, obviously he is not a hero. He's not coming in, buying this application and fixing all of the things that have been hidden from the masses.

Ian MalcolmBut he kind of is giving us a chance to do it ourselves, right? And I know that that's a lot of people just want a white knight to come along and fix everything. But at least we have the armor. That's what he did for me.

@phagankeanHe opened the door for me to come in and the Fagan family and my brother and sister and all the rest of us cousins and the whole entire Fagan family. It opened the door where we could have a different way of getting information out. And then the other big thing is people like you and Joanne that have podcasts. That has opened up even a wider door.

@phagankeanIt's unbelievable. I mean, I sometimes think, oh, my goodness, this is so exciting. But am I good at this? But people keep asking me to come back.

Ian MalcolmSo I guess I'm OK. Mary, I don't I mean, I think you're absolutely fantastic. It's very vivid personality and just a lot of positivity. And that's that's why I did want to call that out for for Elon and whether it's this specific piece of history. or kind of the larger arc that this is clearly a, I mean, this is an, for anybody that's not familiar, this is one of the most foundational pillars of the Jewish supremacist system that we live in today, right?

Ian MalcolmThis is one of those moments where they thought they had so much power. Hey, you are a, again, you're a convicted pedophile. You are a rapist and you are a murderer. And you have now tried to frame your crime on this poor black guy in hopes that racism is going to allow you to get away with what you did. And you look at today where we have Tom Alexandrovich, one of the head of the cybersecurity division for Benjamin Netanyahu, caught trying to solicit sex with a 15 year old boy.

Ian MalcolmHe gets caught. He gets put on an airplane. He gets sent back to Israel. It's a microcosm for exactly what happened. And maybe in that day and age, it goes to show how dark things are today, where at least back then, the system looked around and said, I'm sorry, Mr. Pedophile, we know that you did this. You are going to go to jail.

Ian MalcolmToday they would get away with it, essentially.

@phagankeanRight. And that's so true. And then right after that, though, I forgot to mention that the ADL, right after the rabbi went to New York in September 1913, the ADL was formed.

@phagankeanRight after that. And they re-elected. Leo Frank was part of a B'nai B'rith organization here in Atlanta, and he was the president. And they named him president again, but right after that in September of 1913. And it was not after he was lynched or before he was lynched. It was right after the trial they came out with the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith.

@phagankeanI believe in 2008 they dropped the B'nai B'rith. It's just now the ADL.

Ian MalcolmNo, and that's what, I mean, we think of this history, and TruthTeller knows this better than anybody, but to encapsulate, you look at this window of time, and you've basically got the ADL, you have the Federal Reserve, and then right thereafter, you've got the World Wars, all the insanity that has followed, the Second World War, the Frankfurt School, and now fast forward, and here we are today, where basically...

Ian MalcolmThe last great president was killed by the very people who said, no, how dare you try to criminalize this person for being a pedophile and a rapist and a murderer, right? It's so insane. So Mary, I do think this is one of the most critical kind of foundational stories that shows not only the evil nature of this entity, this machine, right?

Ian MalcolmHowever we want to define it, but it goes to show how unfortunately far we have fallen Where again, we can look around today and the Epstein class is completely covered up. We know exactly who they are and it doesn't matter.

@phagankeanYeah, well, and it mattered back then, you know, and ironically, I found out through, I think it was the USS Liberty. Somebody had made a comment that the President Johnson's, oh no, it was a podcast that I did. Amanda said it. She said that President Johnson's father and grandfather. helped form the ADL. And in the 60s, he wanted to exonerate Leo Frank back then, but evidently the support wasn't there for the exoneration.

Ian MalcolmSo that was interesting to me. I didn't know that about President Johnson. You're saying President Lyndon Johnson, who, of course, took the reins after John F. Kennedy was killed and reversed course on all the shackles they wanted to put on essentially Jewish supremacy in Israel. He was at the... The foundational, his family was at the foundational level of the ADL?

@phagankeanYes, that's what they said, father and grandfather.

Ian MalcolmWow, Dr. Rechtenwald, did you know that?

Speaker 4Yes, hey, how you doing? Good to be here. Good, I'm Dr. Rechtenwald.

Ian MalcolmSorry to bring up Dr. Rechtenwald, I just know this might be a piece of history you'd be familiar with.

Speaker 4That's hilarious that you would just, yeah, yes, that is correct. Nice to see you, Mary. Nice to see you. We wanted to have... We were on with ASAPAC a while ago, and there was a few issues that came up with timing, and I just wanted to reach out to you to say we support you, and I'm going to promote your book. This is a very important piece of history that cannot be forgotten, and so I just wanted to let you know that.

Speaker 4That's why I stopped in to say hello.

@phagankeanThank you so much. That means a lot to our family. We really appreciate it. And if we can work another time, I would be glad to be on the podcast.

Speaker 5Mary, I just want to say you are honoring your, I think, your great aunt. Yes. So much. What happened to her that day was horrific. And Ian is 100% correct. See, now you guys, I can speak normally because I'm not in a hospital. But the Leo Frank trial is basically one of, it's not the first, but it is one of the earliest times in our country of such blatant Jewish supremacy.

Speaker 5I don't know if, Ms. Fagin-Keene, if you saw the two things that I sent you. The fact that the creator of that disgusting parade musical was a Jew.

@phagankeanYes. His grandfather, his uncle owned that pencil factory.

Speaker 5Really?

@phagankeanAlfred Urey, yes, sir. Alfred Urey's uncle owned the National Pencil Company in 1913.

Speaker 5That's disgusting. That's beyond words. And I also want to know if you read the thing about Ron Unz, the Ron Unz's two articles on your great aunt. I'm sure you probably had all the information.

@phagankeanYes, I did, but thank you. He also, in 2019, published for me the first time the Fagan family position paper, and that's in my book, too. At the end, I have an appendix of all the newsletters, that position statement. Ron Unz has been wonderful.

Speaker 5Ron Unz is a wonderful man, and he's a true intellectual hero. I actually, to get to Ian, there was this thing floating around, and I remember telling my friend about it, my friend who I completely J-pilled. There was this, it was like the forbidden video, but it was basically Leo Frank with a giant nose menacing around in a pencil factory.

Speaker 5I have no idea. It was animated. I have no idea what happened to it. I have no idea where it is. If any of you internet sleuths and detectives can find it, That would be great because it really shows what a degenerate piece of garbage Leo Frank really was. And I'm going to finish my statement here by just reading something from Unz's first article that was released in 2018.

Speaker 5I'm just trying to be a little more focused so I don't stutter as much.

Speaker 5Here. Let me see. This is just a really, really, really good quote from Unz. Okay, here we go. Ron Unz wrote this in 2018. And this is the zenith, the absolute zenith of Jewish supremacy. This is... The Greed, you know, you had the bankers, you had Adolph Ox, you had the B'nai B'rith organization, you had the judge, I think the judge was bribed as well.

Speaker 5And so, Unz writes this, and I think Ian would get, would appreciate this. I'm going to start, this is Unz's quote from his article. Now suppose that all the facts of this famous case were exactly unchanged, except that Frank had been a white Gentile. Surely the trial would be ranked as one of the greatest racial turning points in American history, perhaps even overshadowing Brown v. Board because of the extent of popular sentiment.

Speaker 5And it would be given a central place in all of our modern textbooks. And again, like I said yesterday, who owns the textbooks? Robert Maxwell, just like Maxwell, the Epstein family tree. Meanwhile, Frank, his lawyers, and his heavy financial backers would probably be cast as among the vilest racial villains in all of American history for the repeated attempts to foment the lynching of various innocent, and I will say also mentally disabled, black men so that a wealthy white rapist and murderer could walk free.

Speaker 5But because Frank was Jewish rather than Christian, this remarkable history...

Speaker 5The ADO was founded just over a century ago with the central goal of preventing a Jewish rapist and his killer from being held legally accountable for his crimes. And over the decades, it eventually metastasized into a secret political police force not entirely dissimilar from the widely despised East German Stasi, with its central goal seeming to be the maintenance of overwhelming Jewish control in a society that is 98% non-Jewish.

Speaker 5We should ask ourselves whether it is appropriate for an organization with such origins and such recent history to be granted enormous influence over the distribution of information across our internet. And my answer is unequivocally no.

@phagankeanAnd so is mine.

Speaker 5They need to rot.

@phagankeanThey need to change. You mentioned textbooks. I want to tell you what they've done here in Georgia. I just revisited it, but I... I'm a former educator. I worked at the Georgia Department of Education and ended my career there and retired when I was 51. So I found out just recently that the new textbooks, the headline, they also, the ADL here, the Southeast ADL, I believe, or it could have been the ADL with Jonathan Greenblatt, I'm not sure.

@phagankeanThey have designed ADL Leo Frank case materials for the eighth grade students in eighth grade history to study this case. And the first thing they say is anti-Semitism of Leo Frank. They mentioned Mary's name once. So I always think I'm done with everything, but that's on my list too, is that I've got to write a letter to the textbook committee at the Georgia Department of Ed and said this, and I'm going to send them my book.

@phagankeanAnd I'm going to say, this is no longer accurate, and this needs to stop. We had a Fagan that had a daughter that was in 8th grade. Last year. And he called me, and I said, what's up? He said, well, guess what they're studying. I said, I can imagine. Little Mary Fagan. He goes, yep. And he said, Mary, I'm keeping her out that week.

@phagankeanAnd I said, I hope she's not going to be counted absent either. And he said, she won't be. I'll make sure of that. But she's not listening to that BS. We don't need that. And I said, thank you. I appreciate you not sending your daughter there. But that's how strong we still are. But I had no idea. My husband is in hospice, and I had a nurse come by, and her husband was applying for a job, and somehow my book was out, and I didn't mean for it to be out when she came.

@phagankeanAnd she goes, are you related to Little Mary Fagan? And I said, oh, yes. I said, I just finished writing this book, and it's out. And she said, my husband's a teacher, a social studies teacher, and this is one of the cases that they study. And so I said, yes. And she said, well, he didn't do that, but he's learning about it, and he hasn't presented on the case yet.

@phagankeanSo I just thought that was really weird, and that's what got me interested in it again, because I'd completely forgotten about the textbooks that the state uses. And they're wrong. They're not right. They, you know, the ADL has destroyed everything about this case. But fortunate, because of people like you, people like Ian and JoAnn, people like...

@phagankeanStu Peters, I mean, Ryan Dawson, Casey Allen. I mean, all you people that have interviewed me on PatCost. And Albert, Vishal, you all have been so wonderful to me and keep asking me to come back for updates. And I really appreciate you all more than you know.

Speaker 6I'm sorry, I'm losing it. I'm losing it. I'm sorry. I'm being emotional.

Speaker 7We love you.

Ian MalcolmNo, no need to. We love you. The thing that is, I just want to give lots of... No, no, no. I want to give a lot of... Love and support and positivity to all those aforementioned individuals. And, you know, we recognize that there's even amongst some of us on whatever you call this sphere, right? There's going to be little areas of disagreement from time to time and all those kind of things.

Ian MalcolmBut this is one of those issues, whether it's this specific case and Leo Frank and the ADL and Mary Fagan or just the concept of Jewish supremacy in general. Why anybody, I suppose,

Ian MalcolmThese little subtle things to kind of pick people apart. This is one of those things that's so obviously evil, right? We need to lift people like yourself up as best we can.

@phagankeanEven Candace Owens has mentioned it like three or four times, so I thanked her for that. You know what I'm saying? It's just really incredible that you have a lot of people that are becoming more interested in it. But my role is also to let people know that when you tell the story, I mean, some of the Candace Owens, unfortunately, had got some of it incorrect.

@phagankeanAnd, you know, I corrected her, of course. You know what I'm saying? I texted her and let her know. The one thing I want you all to know is that Mary Fagan, she was very religious, but it was a, you know, a combination back in 1913. She was like Baptist, First Christian Church. It was like that. She didn't have the label Catholic, but I am Catholic.

@phagankeanSo, you know, the Catholic is in the family, but not her at that time. She didn't use that word. They used the First Baptist Church is what they said they were. That's what they were. And she was playing Sleeping Beauty right before she died. And my grandfather had taken her there. And she was very well protected by our family, according to grandfather.

@phagankeanThat's the most important thing, too, for me, is to let you know that all the current books, including 2003, 2003, it has started to where they are smearing Mary Fagan and calling her a... Voluptuous Woman.

@joann_marieThey are saying that in the books?

@phagankeanYes, Steve Oney. You should have heard what he said about Mary and what he said. Let me see if I can find that for you, JoAnn. You're going to die with how he describes Mary. This is absolutely vile. She is 13 years old. But they're all starting to say that the parade does the same thing. She's flirtatious. She turned her head here to try... And that's how she's portrayed in Parade, as a very flirtatious little girl.

@joann_marieI mean, I know it's all lies, but even if that was true, you cannot rape a 13-year-old. You know, like, it's just absolutely vile that they are doing this. But I know it's not true.

@phagankeanAnd that's an update that I wanted to give, is that the latest books have come out about it, and I am now labeling them, and forgive me, Because, you know, I'm not anti-Semitic. I had Jewish grandparents, and I'll tell that story later. But, you know, they just can't do this. I won't let it happen. And that's why I rewrote my book, or added to my book.

@phagankeanI added 12, 13 chapters to my first book from 87. You know, and I have much more stuff. And, you know, the Fagan family that my daddy, my grandfather, it was all oral history. We didn't have anything in writing, you know, until I got older. And then, you know, 2013 was... The 100th anniversary. And a team that I didn't even know exists put all the articles of Mary Fagan on the internet.

@phagankeanAnd that's what started it for me. And, you know, I was able to get all that stuff done. But Steve Oney's book in 2003 that he came out. And this is the sad part. It's the man came to our home. We welcomed him in our home. And he interviewed us. And he wrote that stuff and called us hillbillies. All this stuff, my great-grandparents and great-grandparents and grandfather, they were all well-to-do farmers.

@phagankeanWhat's wrong with being a farmer? But no, they had to make it a tenant farmer. You know what I'm saying? And it just aggravated me to no end. And I said, I am challenging this, and I call them the American Jewish revisionists. That's what my title is. And most of the books, people need to be aware, are written by Jewish people.

@phagankeanSo they automatically assume that... You know, he's innocent because he's Jewish. There was no anti-Semitism at the trial, during the trial. There was afterwards. That is true with Tom Watson coming. But Tom Watson didn't do anything during the trial and they claimed that too. And it was vile anti-Semitism that he spoke and written about.

@phagankeanBut that didn't come out until 1914, a year later. But they won't tell you that. The ADL doesn't tell you that. They conveniently leave off the correct documentation dates. Whatever they want to do to make it appear. But to make and smear her like this is just disgusting, in my opinion. And Parade did that with my great-grandmother.

@phagankeanShe said, oh, and that damn Jew. She would have never said that. Never. And so my sister and I went to the parade when the 100th anniversary was there for Leo Frank when he was lynched. And that was the worst year of my life. 2015 was the worst year. I've never had one. As bad as that one, but it was awful because what they did here in Atlanta for Leo Frank, it was disgusting.

@phagankeanAnd, you know, Mary has become the victim. She's not the victim anymore. Her being flirtatious and being pretty is now being that she seduced men. It's just, I won't let it happen.

Speaker 5A 13-year-old girl, guys.

@phagankeanI'm not going to let it happen. I know y'all don't blame me, right? I know you don't.

@joann_marieOf course not. You cannot do that to a 13-year-old. I know it's all lies, but it's still wrong. It's absolutely vile. I think Tom wants to add something, and then we'll go back. Tim?

@joann_marieTim?

@timlordanOh, yeah, sorry. Thanks, guys. Great space. And thank you, Mary, for everything that you do.

@phagankeanYeah, and they did that from 1920. 2020 is when it actually started with Jonathan Greenblatt, where he posts the same post every year, and he's posted it for the last up to 2025. This year, it wasn't there. It wasn't there. He got community noted. That's how I thank Elon Musk. He got community noted, and he cut all of the comments off, only if you were part of that community.

@phagankeanI mean, I think they're evil and they suck for what it's worth. I don't want to take away from the space to bring up what other things that have happened.

@timlordanAll right, well, I'll just segue into this real quick, and then you can segue right back into it, because I'd rather have the space be, you know, all about Mary Fagan. But, you know, they just arrested this Connolly guy, Mike Connolly, I guess it is. You guys know about this? What is it? I'm sorry, Mike Caruso. I had that wrong.

@joann_marieOkay. I also don't know what that is.

Speaker 5The guy that worked for Ron DeSantis, correct?

@timlordanYeah, and he also put the, he's not Jewish, but he helped sign the anti-Semitism laws in Florida that equate like Israel, criticism with Israel as like a hate crime. And he was just arrested on all kinds of accounts of child abuse. And I can't get in, I posted the charges. I don't want to say the wrong thing from a legal standpoint, but...

@timlordanBasically, it sounded like abuse of a minor or sexual abuse of a minor. And DeSantis, like, you know, they've been pushing it in Florida for, like, the death penalty for that type of stuff. So it's really going to get wild with that because, you know, he was close with DeSantis. So I just posted, I'm like, yeah, DeSantis, leave it to Ron DeSantis to, like, you know, limit our speech with Israel, for Israel, for these, like, sexual criminals and abused minors.

@timlordanIt's just like... It just cannot get any worse with these Zionist politicians. It's just like every day they turn over a new leaf of horrific, despicable behavior. So that's all I wanted to say. I'll get back to the space, but thank you, Mary, and it's good to be with you.

@phagankeanOkay, thank you. And I did find what Steve only said, JoAnn, and I hope the listeners are going to be shocked at what he said about her. He said, Mary would have been one of the prettiest girls in any crowd. Eyes blue as cornflowers, cheeks high-boned, and rosy smile beguiling as honeysuckle figure busty. She had undoubtedly already tortured many a boy.

@phagankeanThere was simply something about her, a tilt to the chin, a dare in the gaze, that projected those flirtatious wiles that southern girls often employ to devastating effect. That's what he said about my great aunt. It's absolutely vile that they are sexualizing a little girl.

Speaker 5It's absolutely vile.

@joann_marieThese people, it's absolutely insane.

@omdiscussions7Mary, I'm sorry, who wrote that again?

@phagankeanSteve Oney in 2003. He's considered the ADL's expert on the case.

@omdiscussions7Yeah, of course he is.

@phagankeanAnd he did the PBS documentary in 2009, and he does everything. He gets everything. And of course, they interviewed me. I denied the first time. I said, I'm not doing it. I'm just not doing these interviews anymore. I saw how they... I had a really bad experience with CNN many, many, many years ago and he completely picked and, you know, he just made me look like I was an idiot.

@phagankeanYou know what I'm saying? In my opinion, you know, I knew I wasn't an idiot, but I, you know, he just, and then when he left and after interviewing me, he looked at me and he said, your father's been lying to you for over a century. And I said, I'll never do another interview again. And so they had to talk me into it. Bill Kinney of the Marietta Daily Journal talked me into it because they wanted the living survivors that still existed because, you know, it was 2009, 2008.

@phagankeanAnd so he said, you need to do this. I said, Bill, I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. I said, you know how they do? They take the parts and pieces they want you to make that you sound like you're crazy and an idiot. Although they did do a good job with my interview. They did get it right when I went. But I did do that.

@phagankeanAnd that's what was significant about that. That was the first time that there was actually people that could talk about it. Because the Fagan family did not talk about it until I came out in 1982. That's when I came out. And that was the big thing. That's what started all this exoneration that's happening today was Alonzo Mann came forward, Frank's office boy of two weeks, claimed that he saw Jim Conley, the black man with the body of little Mary Fagan on the first floor and that the elevator was not used.

@phagankeanThat he dumped her down the defense. Oh, that was the other defense I forgot to leave out. That was the shuttle. That the body was thrown down the shuttle and the elevator. was not used. And the shaft is two feet by two feet by three inches and four and a half feet wide. If you've seen a picture of Jim Conley, he was a big man.

@phagankeanAnd you know, it was 14 feet down that ladder. It's very difficult, I don't think. And her body during the autopsy, nothing was found that indicated that her body was thrown from the elevator because she had drag marks. The body had drag marks. From the elevator to where her body lay, whoever it was was trying to get her body into the incinerator and burn her.

@phagankeanLord have mercy. And she was brutally raped, yes. And she was a virgin. And now they're making her out to be, even the governor made out to be that the blood they found on her panties was her menstrual cycle. And my daddy said, no, that's not what happened. If she had had her menstrual cycle, she would have had some kind of cloth and two pins in her panties, and she did not.

@phagankeanAnd even my great-grandmother said that she was starting puberty, but she had not had her menstrual cycle. So they just tell all these lies about little Miriam. That's when I just got really angry after reading his book. I threw it down, and I never did finish reading it. I can't because I think he's just as vile as the ADL now.

@phagankeanAnd he came in so nice and sweet to our family and just stabbed us right in the back.

@joann_marieOf course they were going to do that. Of course. I know. I'm so sorry that all of this happened, Mary.

@phagankeanYeah, me too. Me too. It really gets you. And you know, I've learned to be very... Untrustworthy. Does that make sense? Yeah, of course. People that want to interview me and people that want to come to me. But the podcast are a different group of people. I've noticed that you all are very kind. You're very gracious to hear my story.

@phagankeanYou're very patient with me. You encourage me to tell the truth. And you believe me. That's the most important thing is that you all believe me. And I prove it. I have all the evidence to show how that ADL has just been a monster. And it will continue to be a monster.

@joann_marieThat's why they were made for, literally, to terrorize people and to silence them. And of course, literally, that's what they do.

@phagankeanYes, they do. And it's just really sad that they can do that and we let them get by with it. But I just couldn't do it. You know, I made... I don't know. I may not live long. Who knows? Somebody may come and get me. I don't know. But you know what? My book is out there now. And I have a Mary Fagan Keene Legacy Trust where everything, if I pass, my nephew's next in line.

@phagankeanAnd then I have a team that I have. And that team will continue after I'm gone because I'm making sure financially that they have... It's crazy that they're saying that. Let's go to Dr. Michael. Maybe he wants to add something. Okay, sure. Yeah, thanks, Mary, for telling all this.

@joann_marieAnd, you know, it's so disgusting to hear them trying to impute

Speaker 4Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 4The Federal Reserve was established. The income tax was established. And lastly, the ADL was established. What a year that was. I mean, that year really, it really lynched America. I mean, that's the only way I can really put it.

@phagankeanYeah, I think you're right. And also, too, it's my understanding that also in 1913, William Burns, who was a detective in the case, was part of the first FBI that we had in our country. Somehow, and the Pinkerton detectives, the CIA or the FBI, I can't remember which one it is. I'd have to verify it for you guys. But that's one of the speakers told me that on a podcast about a month ago.

@phagankeanAnd I said, wow, because William Burns got kicked out of Atlanta. because they were planting evidence.

Speaker 4Yeah, I mean, look at this guy. So here we go. This is yesterday when this guy was arrested, this guy Caruso, who he was referred to earlier, 67-year-old Palm Beach County clerk of the circuit court and comptroller, okay, was arrested yesterday on multiple felony charges related to the alleged sexual abuse of a young child, a relative under age 12.

Speaker 4reported in some accounts as five years old. Charges include in kidnapping, lewd or lascivious molestation, lewd or lascivious exhibition, luring or enticing a child, and child abuse causing mental injury. I mean, this guy is a, you know, he's in the cabal. He's not Jewish, but he's in the cabal because he's right up there with DeSantis, who's also in the cabal.

Speaker 4Of course, in that cabal is Randy Fine. You know, so really what I wanted to ask you about, Mary, is like you've been fighting basically the ADL for some time now. How would you characterize what we're dealing with?

@phagankeanI think it's more open than what it has been before. This was a very closed topic. I don't think other people wanted to listen and really believe it. And I think it has opened the door for what is happening. And we're getting the facts out about people such as the person you were talking about and other people as well.

@phagankeanYou know, I feel bad for the families that have gone through something like this. We got justice. He was convicted. And he was sentenced to hang, but sentenced commuted, as I said. And then a vigilance committee took care of him. are now kind of...

@phagankeanThey changed the marker? The what? Her grave.

@phagankeanI think it's important. I think this is the right timing for me and for this story because it lets people know that it's been going on a lot longer than they think. And now it's time that we need to do something and these other people need to be convicted. But like I said, we are very fortunate that we got a sentence and a conviction.

@phagankeanMost of these families and even the Epstein girls, I feel so bad for them that they had to go through what they went through and they're still alive.

@joann_marieWe need to stop all these institutions, Mary. They also have their own police so that if they get caught, their own police investigates them and they don't do anything. That's insane. And then if they do get convicted, they send the ADL to terrorize everyone. This cannot keep happening. It's absolutely insane.

@phagankeanYes, and I think my case... I'm bringing it back to call it the Mary Fagan case instead of Leo Frank case. In the 80s and stuff, in all the newspapers, it said Mary Fagan case. Now they're making it the Leo Frank case. She's no longer the victim. She antagonized Leo Frank to do that. But what they don't tell you is that between the coroner's inquest, the grand jury, and the trial,

@phagankean20 girls and boys testified against Leo Frank's conduct. Most, I say most, most of the people that are even Jewish, even Jeffrey Melnick says it, the thing that convicted Frank was his perversion. So that's what they're saying. The perversion is the one that killed it for him because they testified against his behavior.

@phagankeanAnd so the only time I will tell you that there was some kind of anti-Semitism was twice during the trial. Once was August 14th when... The solicitor, Dorsey, was cross-examining a little girl. And he said, had a question. And Leo Frank's mother got up and jumped up and said something. And it's very different. There's different quotes, but I quote it.

@phagankeanI say, she said, get up and neither do you, you Gentile dog. So that's when religion was brought in for the first time. Then the last day of the trial, the two defense attorneys, because they realized they lost the battle. Their last witness, they had people testifying against a trolley conductor, George Kinley, and they quoted him as saying, and if I'd been on that jury, I would have hanged that damn Jew.

@phagankeanAnd that's how it ended, because they knew they lost. And it was the perversion that killed him. And he was a pervert. He was a pedophile. We call it pedophile, but my dad told me, and I didn't understand it at 15, he said, He said he was a sexual pervert. I said, well, what's a sexual pervert, Daddy? And he said, he told me, go get the dictionary.

@phagankeanSo I went and got the dictionary, and I said, people do that? People did that to Mary? That man did that to her? He went, yes. I had no clue. You know, nowadays, these kids know everything at age four and five. You know what I'm saying? I'm laughing about it because I'm a former teacher, but, you know, they know a lot more than I ever did at age, I'm telling you.

@joann_marieI don't think children should know. I think we should protect them from all of this bullshit until they are older.

Ian MalcolmWouldn't it be really weird, JoAnn, if the only reason they knew about it was because of the media and the media was in the same hands of the people that were trying to defend and normalize Leo Frank? Isn't it weird that even if they try to say that Mary Fagan was seducing this man that would somehow, I guess, justify the rape of this young woman, which is really weird because in the Talmud it basically says...

Ian MalcolmIf this happens, then shame on the victim because they lured us into it. And it's like, wow, that sounds surely familiar. And then I guess because she lured him in, not only did it justify him raping her, but also murdering her, right? And then lying about it. Like, it's unbelievable that they can say, oh, woe is us. We're the victims.

Ian MalcolmIt's just because they don't like us. And how crazy is it, Mary, that... They said, oh, you don't like us and we know that it was based on bigotry because they said, oh, it's a Jew. And it's like, well, I mean, if you called the German guy that damn German, it would just be a statement of fact, right? But in this case, somehow to call the Jew the Jew is somehow offensive and bigoted.

Ian MalcolmIt's so weird how that one word seems more offensive to the Jewish person than to be called a pedophile. Like, I can't comprehend how backwards this all is.

@phagankeanIt is backwards. And it's strange, isn't it? It just boggles my mind that their thought of thinking is just off, just way off. It's just way off. And, you know, Jonathan Greenblatt, just like I said, he just posts the same thing and he tells everybody that whenever he goes and gives a speech, he brings up Leo Frank every time.

@phagankeanYou know, does he ever say Mary's name?

Speaker 8No.

@phagankeanNo. You know, they know who she is. So I think when I do the documentary, I'm not sure what the title is, but I want to say, Dear ADL, her name was Mary Fagin.

Ian MalcolmYou know, it's just... You know, Mary, I think that's a wonderful way to start. And I just wanted to comment. I don't think he's up here anymore, but PVG... He made that comment there. I never really thought about this from the... And I'm really glad that we have Bryce up here, actually, from a historical standpoint. This would be very interesting.

Ian MalcolmBut PVG made that comment. He said, let's try to imagine that instead of a Jewish individual, that this had been a white German guy that in 1913 had raped a young woman and then tried to blame it on an African-American and tried to hide behind racism. lied about all of the things, got them all the way to the stand, right?

Ian MalcolmAnd then demanded even after the judge was like, nah, I'm pretty sure it's the German guy. If the German guy had said, no, no, no, quickly form a white supremacy group to come and protect my reputation, even though I'm guilty as can be, right? Like the whole world would have rewritten this story as what a paramount moment for race relations in the United States where somebody was held accountable despite their race.

Ian MalcolmAnd I never really thought about it, but that's absolutely how this should be remembered, that the white people and the black people all came together and were like, no, I'm pretty sure it's not the black guy. It's probably that guy over there, right? Racism was overcome, except for the fact that it was a Jewish guy. And then all of a sudden it has to be completely erased from all history.

Ian MalcolmAnd a group has to be constructed for the explicit purpose.

@phagankeanWell, and we're very fortunate, too, because the Southern Poverty Law Center, they just indicted some people from theirs, and they're the sister city, I mean, excuse me, sister organization to the ADL. And they, whatever the ADL says, the SPLC says, the Southern Poverty Law Center. So, yeah, so I'm hoping that maybe the Department of Justice will

@phagankeanFinally, say something regarding the ADL. I do know that one good thing as far as when I talked about the textbooks, the National Education Association of Teachers has no longer values the ADL teaching curriculums anymore. They've taken them all out. So that's a positive for sure. Now Georgia needs to do it.

Ian MalcolmSorry about that. No, no, no. I was trying to come off mute. I don't know why that wasn't working. JoAnn, any thoughts for Dr. Rechtenwald? And if not, why don't we go to Mr. Frank down there?

Ian MalcolmNow it looks like JoAnn is having issues as well. Why don't we go to Lindsey? Hopefully people can hear me.

@phagankeanI can hear you. Hi, Mary. I am sorry about everything that's happened to you. I did want to tell you, though, that it said that a person dies twice, once when their body dies and the second time when people stop saying their name. So by you continuing to say Mary's name, you have kept her alive. She's still alive. And I also wanted you to know to never apologize about crying or try to stop yourself from crying.

@phagankeanIt's your body trying to get rid of blocked energy to help restore balance within your mind to process emotional energy. So don't ever feel ashamed or embarrassed about that. Sometimes I do, but I'm crying now because you touched me. Thank you. I will start believing in that. And I know she's here. I don't know if most people don't know how...

@phagankeanIf they're new, this will be new information, but if not, it's old information. But I was 13 when I found out about the death, the murder of Mary Fagan by a schoolteacher. We were going through the line, and he had all the names. And I'm talking, you know, Charleston Air Force Base, so I'm a military brat. So he goes to the line, and he gives all the names and everything, and I give my name.

@phagankeanAnd he doesn't look up at anybody. He just marks the names off, you know. I go through the line and go, Mary Fagan. And he goes... He changed and I'm like, what the heck is he doing? He's looking up at me. Oh my God, what's going on? You know how you are, you're 13. And he takes his pen and pencil on his finger and he points to my name and he said, you know, there was a little girl by that same name that was murdered in Atlanta in the 1920s.

@phagankeanAre you by chance related to her? And I said, I don't know. Well, after that, the boys, and I'm 13, you got to remember, it was a very traumatic experience for me. They told me I was dead. I was reincarnated. And, you know, I was very upset and that's when I went home and I told my dad what happened and he gave me the basic story.

@phagankeanBut a lot of people, you know, I just want people to know that, yes, she's in me. She's in me every day of my life. She has been. I mean, no matter where I've been, I never talked about this case so much until 2025 and now like 2026 with these podcasts and stuff. I would only answer the question. If somebody asked me, are you by chance related to little Mary Fagan?

@phagankeanAnd then I would say yes. And I've been asked that question my whole life. And it came up at some of the most inopportune times in my life. At the State Department, I was doing a major presentation for Georgia, and all of a sudden this lady stands up and she goes, now I know who you are. Oh God, here it comes. She goes, you're related to little Mary Fagan who was raped and murdered by Leo Frank in 1913.

@phagankeanAnd I said, yes. I said, we'll talk afterwards. You know what I'm saying? It just blew my mind how many people really knew about it. I never talked about it at all. And it was just something that I couldn't talk about. I wasn't strong enough. So I am now strong enough where I can. And you're right. I'm not ashamed of it, but I'm just, it just, I don't know.

@phagankeanI don't know how to explain it. I know she's there and I know she wants, I feel like she wants me to cry. She does want you to cry because, like I said, there's blockages, energy blockages that need to get out so you can restore the balance with... That being said too, I did want to say also kind of looping back to what Ian was saying, if you ever wanted someone to clip things or try to put something together in small clips, I kind of...

@phagankeanWell, yes, Lindsey, go ahead and text me on X or something like that.

@phagankeanI'm trying to think how the best way for you to do it. I usually do X, but I don't know if you're on X or not, but that's how people have been contacting me. Or Ian can give me your information or something like that, and then I can get in touch with you. That would be great. Thank you.

Ian MalcolmI'll set that up right now for you.

@phagankeanShe's also hilarious.

@joann_marieI'm sorry? Lindsey is also hilarious. She's so creative, and her little clips are so funny. Okay. Yeah, but she's brilliant. You're going to love it.

Ian MalcolmI'll set up a group chat with you guys right now with JoAnn in there as well so you can have easy access for everybody.

@joann_marieAmazing. Mr. Frank, what is up with that hand?

Speaker 9Hey, sorry. I'm just really happy that this story is being circulated still through

Speaker 9Albeit it is X, and however many people are listening. But I'm really happy that, you know, she's been in Albert Bashai's space, which really helped blow her up. And I'm glad she's here because this is something that people need to realize. There's so much, you know, it's one of those things where you look at something,

Speaker 9And there's a huge, huge subject behind it. And I'm just glad that she's here. And, you know, I love you, and I'm so sorry for everything that happened, obviously. I had four sisters. My little sister is the one that, you know, my big sisters were, they were pretty good at taking care of themselves. My little sister...

Speaker 9is the one that I always felt the one I had to like spartan kick every guy that came up to her. You know? And that is a man's responsibility to look out for their siblings and their mother and other people. And yeah, it's just, I'm just glad that you're here. Thank you so much.

Speaker 9But at least I have a chance to use your situation to kind of explain that these things happen. And it's also something that is keeping us from having a full First Amendment too. Right. And yeah. And it's really crazy, but it's all intertwined and people need to realize what it is.

@phagankeanThank you so much for that. You made me, reminded me of my grandfather. My grandfather, Mary was his pride and joy because he was, they were very close. They were only like a year apart. So he had to go with her everywhere. Like I said, he went with her to the Sleeping Beauty. Thank you for joining us.

@phagankeanOne day, I think I was 16 at the time, yes, he brings Mary's picture out. And he looked at me, and he looked at the picture, and he cried like a baby, literally in tears. And I'm looking at my daddy, and I'm just, you know, I didn't know what my reaction should be. So I started crying, and then my dad started crying, and grandmother started crying.

@phagankeanAnd what he was trying to tell me was that I looked like her a lot. And he reminded that I reminded him of his sister and that he loved me. And that was a good thing in my life. But it frightened me at first, you know what I'm saying? Because I didn't understand. And then my dad explained to me. And I had so many questions for my grandfather.

@phagankeanAnd I couldn't ask him because I knew he couldn't talk about it. He couldn't say a word. After he got it out, it took him forever. He had some voice issues. It was just truly remarkable that he really believes that I look like her. And I do, too. I do. I have to admit it now. I might be admitted after several years, but I do.

@phagankeanMy first book has a picture of me on me. And then when you look at this new picture on the new book, the 2025 version, you can definitely tell. We have the same mouth. We have the same nose. The only thing different about us was our... Mary, she's living through you and you're keeping her alive and you're doing all of this wonderful work for her.

@phagankeanAnd also, I know she's proud and she's with you. I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, I'm looking at her right now.

@joann_marieI have a space in my head.

@phagankeanMy bedroom's a big, big, big room, and I've got a corner, and it's just all her stuff. My collection that I have of 60 years, I just submitted it a couple years ago to the Georgia State University so it wouldn't be destroyed. My nephew and I talked about it, and we decided that I needed to quit having all these trunks in my house of all this stuff.

@phagankeanAnd so he was grateful, but he made me promise that I keep the original picture, the record, that... There was a song, a ballad about her when the governor commuted the Senate by fiddling John Carson. I have an original picture of the Fagan family when her father was alive. He died in 1899 from something that's happening today in our society, from measles, ironically.

@phagankeanAnd then I have some pictures of Fanny and him when they were first married. And then I also have the picture of them at the grave of Mary the day that she was buried in. Also, they made a postcard of the lynching of Leo Frank, and I have that as well. And, you know, that's what I'm looking at. Every time I do a podcast, I look at, you know, I'm looking at them.

@phagankeanAnd, you know, I know I can feel my family in me. And I'm grateful for that. I hope they, I know they're proud of me. And I know my daddy is for sure. You know, he really is because he encouraged me. And what's the most beautiful thing about this is that the story that they told me was all oral history. They never had anything in writing.

@phagankeanBut I was able to verify things, and there were some corrections that I need to make, and I made them in the book, and I said so in the book. The one thing that I corrected for sure was that my people asked me, and this is what hoaxes are about. And y'all are going to be shocked on this one. Somebody claimed in 1964 by a man, Pierre Van Passoon, who was French in 1964, he claimed in his book in the 1920s that Mary Fagan was bitten on the breast.

@phagankeanAnd he claimed that he had x-rays of Leo Frank's teeth and that the pictures did not match.

@phagankeanI discovered that in 1913 there was no such thing as teeth x-rays.

@phagankeanThey weren't there. The autopsy report, which I have in my book, shows that she was raped viciously and murdered and strangled. She was strangled. So the case against Leo Frank was that he was charged with the murder by strangulation. Rape was not in it, but rape came out in the trial. And so that's why I continue to say rape and murder of Mary Fagan.

@phagankeanIt's just one of those things that you just can't imagine. The autopsy report was so important because I never could read it. Oh my gosh, y'all. It took three days for me to read about how she was found. I couldn't understand it, you know. I mean, I was older then. But I never knew that there was an autopsy report. And then I found it, and then I had to read it.

@phagankeanAnd, you know, I still have difficulty every time I have to go and look at that. But there was no bite marks reported. The autopsy and another doctor and the embalmer said the same thing. There were no, there were, but I mean, she had a black eye and a few things like that. Somebody hit her with a fist and everything. And ironically, they connected the fist to Leo Frank because I think of, I can't remember if he was left-handed or right-handed, but it was something that only a certain hand, if you had a certain hand, you could do it.

@phagankeanI'll have to look that up for you. But yeah, that's... Well, that's what happened. That was what he brought out in 1964. But he said he saw the reports in 1920 in the Fulton County court system room. The other thing that y'all need to know about was, and I did verify this too, is in 1965, my dad told me the trial transcript went missing.

@phagankeanAfter Harry Golden wrote his book, A Little Girl is Dead, in 1965, and Leonard Dennardstein wrote his thesis. in 1965, and Leonard Dennerstein is considered the father of the Leo Frank case. And he republished his book every four years, and I think the last one was 1991, where even Alan Dershowitz wrote the introduction, which he was completely wrong in his whole thing that he said.

@phagankeanBut, you know, they both sent people to search the records, and when their teams left, the trial transcript disappeared, so there's no trial transcript. You have to go back. If you're going to write a book about this case, You're going to have to go and read all the original newspaper accounts because they ask the questions.

@phagankeanThere is a brief of evidence. It does, but it summarizes. It doesn't give you the questions. I wanted to know the questions, and that's why Dad and I researched when I was 15, 16, and 17 at Georgia State, and we made copies, and that's how we were able to write the first book, plus the oral history. The other thing that people get wrong, and I had wrong too, and I have a marker.

@phagankeanAt her grave that I put it up because I got ticked off at them changing her marker. I called the Knights of Mary Fagan. That lynched Leo Frank and that was not true at all. That was something the New York Times put out six weeks before he was lynched. And they called themselves, they put Knights of Mary Fagan. What the Atlanta newspapers say is it was a vigilance committee.

@phagankeanAnd they were very well known. They were very well known. I mean, there were sheriffs. There was a former governor. There was lawyers, part of the vigilance committee of the 25 men that took Leo Frank from the Melitreville prison and lynched him here in Marietta. And it was the first time that automobiles were used. So they had automobile mechanics there.

@phagankeanThey also had a decoy group fishing. And they had a planning committee. And when he committed the sentence, Governor Slayton committed the sentence, that's when everything came out. I have to correct those errors. I have to be right. I don't know how much time we have, so you all need to tell me if I need to stop.

@joann_marieYou're doing amazing, Mary. We need to start making our own plays. You know how they made a play for Leo Frank? Yes. We need to start doing that for all of our patients.

Speaker 9I just want to say real quick. A lot of people don't realize that the county coroner has more power than the sheriff. They can actually... Sheriff.

Speaker 3Oh, wow.

Speaker 9Yeah.

@phagankeanYeah, so the embalmer and the coroner, you know, did, you know, they, like I said, there was nothing on her body for bite marks because, you know, my dad said he wasn't sure. And I, so I finally found out that he was right. It was, it didn't happen. It didn't happen. So that was the hardest part for me for writing the first book.

@phagankeanThe second part, the second one, this is 2025, I knew exactly what I was going to tell y'all. Because, you know, I had written it down and I said, I've got to update this. And when I realized that, what, 40 years? I thought, oh my goodness, I had to write, I wrote like 13 more chapters. There's 25 chapters and I only had 12 of the first book and now I've got 25.

@phagankeanSo I wrote 13 chapters, plus I wrote all the newsletters. There's 15 newsletters that I wrote. So I included everything I could. I also did analysis of Frank's... Contact with the girls. So I wrote the names down and the page numbers where everybody can find it because I've been arguing with somebody on X about it. But it was 20 girls and they all refuted.

@phagankeanNo, they did not. You know, and here's where is it? So I said, you need to read my book and on pages such and such and such. It refutes what you're saying, you know, and I think people are being shocked how accurate I am because that was me. I wanted to make sure that I tell the truth, but that I had evidence to support.

@phagankeanOur family's truth and everything has been verified now. Everything that my daddy told me. And then if it was incorrect, I do say that in the book. I mention that in the book, that the Knights of Mary Fagan stuff. But like in 1994 is when they changed the marker at her grave. And that was horrible. That was just a horrible, horrible thing.

@phagankeanSo I'd like to share that story if you all want to listen to it about how they did it. And you all will be very angry, I'm sure. In 1994, Mary is buried in the Marietta City Cemetery, and next to that cemetery is the Confederate Cemetery. So her grave is the most visited in that cemetery every year. There was no markers, nothing like that, but she has a very beautiful grave.

@phagankeanShe has a very beautiful tomb marker that Tom Watson wrote in 1939, the whole length of the grave site. And it has a beautiful thing in there, and I'm going to read what it says on that. Little Mary Fagan's Heroism is an heirloom in which there's nothing more precious among those old red hills of Georgia.

@phagankeanSleep, little girl, sleep in your humble grave. But if the angels are good to you in the realms beyond the troubled sunset and the clouded stars, they will let you know that many an aching heart in Georgia beats for you, and many a tear from eyes unused to weep has paid tribute to sacred for words. And I've always memorized that ever since I saw it.

@phagankeanAnd it's the most beautiful inscription. And so a lot of people really do... Do you like that? And they come there. But anyway, that's on her grave. And then, of course, it has the headstone, the Mary Fagan, that Mary Fagan is buried there and all that. And then in 1994, like I said, they wanted to put markers up in the mirror.

@phagankeanJoe Mack Wilson was the city of Marietta's mirror. And he contacted my daddy. And my daddy said, no, you don't need it. She doesn't need a marker. She's already got one. And he said, Mr. Fagan, I really feel that she needs to be one of the eight that we're putting up. So they have like the University of Georgia president, you know, just other people around.

@phagankeanAnd he said, no, I really just don't want her to have a marker. And he was afraid because her grave is very, it's out of marble, y'all. It's beautiful. And I keep it clean. And so he was afraid that somebody would damage it. I will tell you that since I've been going at 78, 1978, Since we moved back, I moved back to Georgia because I went to Florida State and then came back to Georgia in 1978.

@phagankeanThere has never been any destruction at her grave. Only things have been left. There's been stuffed animals, books, money, little rocks, pictures, everything. And we leave them out and the city cemetery will take them out. And then, of course, it starts all over again. thrilled that people leave things there and we just make sure that they stay there for a very long time and we don't take them up at all.

@phagankeanThe city cemetery does. So anyway, my dad get back to daddy. So Joe Mack Wilson convinced my daddy that he could put a marker because he could read what the inscription was going to say. And so this is what the marker said when they put it up in 1994. Celebrated in song is little Mary Fagan with her murder after her murder on Confederal Memorial Day, 1913 in Atlanta.

@phagankeanHer grave is marked by the CSA veterans in 1915, the tribute by Tom Watson, set 1933. Leo Frank, sentenced to hang, granted clemency before lynching, August 17, 1915. His 1986 pardon, based on the state's failure to protect him, apprehend killers, not Frank's innocence. So I get a phone call, and she tells me, Mary, you need to go clean the grave.

@phagankeanI said, I just cleaned it. She said, you need to go to the grave, Mary. I said, what happened? She goes, Mary, go to the grave. I said, okay. So I went to the grave, and I looked up, and they changed the damn marker in the middle of the night. And they put up this marker, celebrated in song as little Mary Fagan after her murder at age 13 on April 26, 1913 in Atlanta.

@phagankeanThe trial and conviction of Leo Frank were controversial. As was the commutation of his death sentence four days before Confederate veterans marked her grave on June 25, 1915. He was abducted from prison and lynched August 17, 1915. In 1986 he was issued a pardon. So they're duping the public. He was issued a pardon but not for his innocence.

@phagankeanHe was issued a pardon because the state failed to protect him in prison and he was lynched. What a difference, right? The Fagan family, of course, was very upset. They got headline news about the marker being changed and told Daddy we needed to take that marker down, take that marker down and shove it. And he kept it up because elders were there, are still living.

@phagankeanI said, we need to put our own marker up. He said, no, elders are still living. And they knew Mary. And he said, we have to wait till they pass and then we will do something. And that's exactly what we did in 2016. I put my own marker up in with my brother and sister, and everybody was gone, including Daddy. We put it up, and we talked about her and how she was a person.

@phagankeanAnd that's where I do have the error in there. I have two errors in there that I've got to clean it up. I didn't know, do you all want me to read what I wrote? Sure. Okay, it says, Little Mary Fagan, she was the daughter of Fanny and John Fagan. She was born on June 1st, 1899 in Florence, Alabama. She was a beautiful little girl with fair complexion, blue eyes, dimples, long reddish-brown hair, and was jovial, happy, and thoughtful towards others.

@phagankeanOn April 26, 1913, Mary planned to go to the National Pencil Company to pick up her pay of $1.20 and then watch the Confederate Memorial Day Parade. She told her mother she would be home after the parade. Mary did not return home that afternoon and was found raped and murdered in the basement of the National Pencil Company around 3 a.m. on April 27, 1913.

@phagankeanMary was 13 years old. Leo Frank, superintendent of the National Pencil Company, was arrested, tried, and convicted for the rape and murder of Mary Fagan. Leo Frank was lynched August 17, 1950. by the Knights of Mary Fagan. No Fagan was involved in the lynching. The 1986 pardon does not exonerate Leo Frank for the murder of little Mary Fagan.

@phagankeanAnd at the very bottom, I put little Mary Fagan is not forgotten. I wrote that myself. My brother and sister approved it too. So they loved it. They said that was good. So there are the errors in there. She, like I said, she was raped, but he was not charged with rape. So that... Probably needs to come. And of course, the Knights of Mary Fagan, they did not exist.

@phagankeanIt was the vigilance committee. So when the people come to the grave now, they look at that big one on the outside. It's outside of our grave. It's out. So they have this like 10 foot tall thing that says that other sign that they had. But then when they come to the grave, they have to read what I say about Mary Fagan and what the family says about Mary Fagan.

@phagankeanAnd I think that's the most important thing. So I feel like it was payback. And they called me a revisionist. The Jewish community called me a revisionist. And I laughed and I said, honey, you talk about revision. I can have a discussion with you for days about how you revise this case. So that's what happened with that.

@phagankeanI mean, it's just lots of ugly things, evil things that they do. Who would want to desecrate a grave like that? I mean, it's not desecrating. Yeah, it is desecrating because you know what they did with that marker? They took away the truth about Leo Frank. And, you know, a lot of people say it shouldn't have even said Leo Frank.

@phagankeanBut you can't. It's like World War II with Germany and what? Adolf Hitler. Can you separate the two? Heck no, you can't do that. Same thing with Mary Fagan. You know, he was lynched and, you know, he was not given a pardon for her. JoAnn Marie, Debbydebbynb.blusky.social, McMercy

@phagankeanI've known about this story for many, many years, but I've never known details about anything. I kind of knew, like, the overall details. But anywho, I just bought your book. Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah, I bought the hardcover, too. Amazon said it was the last one there. So I don't know if you guys need to, like, up production or do what you got to do.

@phagankeanBut anywho.

@phagankeanI'm kind of curious as to why Americans have gone so far as far as letting things go and the race relations in that time seem to be okay to where they could figure out, hey, this is not a You know, where, sorry, I don't mean to say this, but to where Jews are separating people as they do now, but they actually, the people themselves came together and said, hey, this is not what happened, and this guy is the guy.

@phagankeanAnd we, yeah, I know, I'll make it quick. And we've gone so far. It's just, you know, everything that happened right after that, that brought us to this point in time. And I'm curious about why the Guidestones were in Georgia in the first place. Does this have any reference to what...

@phagankeanI'm kind of all over the place, but yeah. Hey, thanks. Mary, look forward to reading the book. Thank you.

@joann_marieI posted your book in the Jumbotron so that everybody can check it out. And also, guys, again, please repost this space. Follow Ian and Mary and Rabbi and Bryce and Bea and Lindsey and everybody who is here. And please bookmark it. It helps so much with the alcohol. Rabbi, how are you?

Speaker 3Yeah, the Rabbi.

@phagankeanI know the Rabbi. He's awesome.

Speaker 8I know the Rabbi.

Speaker 10Everyone... I'm going to put that on a pin and sell it. I know the rabbi. No, I'm doing great. Thank you very much. I just wanted to come up with my support to Mary Fagan. Everyone, please read her new book if you get the chance. This is one of the founding myths of our country and its obsession with anti-Semitism, which, to be quite honest, I think is just a moral panic at this point.

Speaker 10And I think that the more... We talk about this, and the more it's going to come out that, yes, anti-Semitism is a moral panic now, and most likely it was a moral panic back then as well. I can't think of any time. I mean, JoAnn, Ian, Mary, can you think of any time in our nation's history when Jews were attacked, killed, put in jail, right, just for being Jewish?

Speaker 10I can't. I can't. It seems like a bunch of people have taken over, like, for example, television with shows like Mad Men. And what they do is they make fictional TV shows that are set in our nation's past. And then they put prejudice and racism and discrimination in those TV shows, which are made in the present, but they're set in the past.

Speaker 10And I think most people are so horrifically under-read and under-educated about our own history that they simply assume that, well, if somebody wants to make a TV show about it, it must be true. And that is one of the greatest points of ignorance that I think we need to address in this country. The greatest lynching, the largest lynching in America was, I think, of 11 Italians.

Speaker 10It wasn't of Jews, right? I can't think, I don't, to be honest, I don't know any other lynching of a Jewish person. I think they're involved in organized crime. I think it was one of the first reactions against the mafias.

@phagankeanI'm Italian, so I understand that.

@phagankeanMy mom is full-blooded Italian and grew up in Chicago.

@phagankeanIt's just funny to hear about that with the Italian mafia because it was... I mean, it was just something. It was something I learned as a child, too. And, you know, she lived in the neighborhood that Al Capone lived in. She said he was a good man because he protected the children. And that's what she said. She said that, and I think people don't know that, but she said the main thing he did was he protected, he loved his mother.

@phagankeanHis mother was... Everything and the children of the world were everything for him, and he would protect any child he could.

Speaker 10You know, I wouldn't be surprised. It's one of those things where there's this one group of people, and what happens is they have this proclivity to do horrible things and then inspire other people to participate in the horrible things. And then when the horrible things are over, they blame all of it on the other people.

Speaker 10And anyone who's looked into mafia knows who was at the top. Who, for example, was at the top of Murder, Inc., right? Who, for example, was at the top of creating Las Vegas, right? And what I do believe began as, you know, ethnic protection organizations, right? And then went into crime. By the way... Ethnic protection organizations that at some point they're going to come back into style because every other minority in America is now engaging in the exact same thing.

Speaker 10The newcomers are doing the exact same thing. And we're at the point where the government is failing us so much that we're going to have to pick up our old habits just to survive. But that aside, you have this group of people and they kind of like finance and energize us. And then they put all the blame on us after it's done.

Speaker 10And I've never liked that. It's never sat with me. You see the same thing in South America where they come in and they'll train like these narco traffickers. Like you'll have, I'm not saying there's any connection between this one group and this country, but you'll literally have consultants come in from Israel and the Mossad and they'll teach the South Americans who, to be quite honest, were pretty advanced in barbarity to start with, but they'll come in and they'll teach them advanced barbarity like,

Speaker 10Oh, let's see. Oh, like putting babies and bats of acid to kill them, right? Or how to cut off people's heads and engage in terror. How to really, really mess with people, right? And then what happens is when this becomes a thing, then they kind of back off and deny all culpability in it. It's like, no, it was all them.

Speaker 10And it helps because they get to make all the TV shows and documentaries about it. I've heard that before. You're not the first person to say that to me.

@phagankeanGet the word out, and X especially. I mean, you know, community noted. Jonathan Greenblatt, it started really in 2021, and it's been going for the last five years pretty heavy. So that's been wonderful. But last year when the book came out in September, I've been going almost a year now. I can't believe I've been on a podcast for almost a year.

@phagankeanBut it's really changed. And people are questioning a lot more now. And I'm excited about the possibility of change, especially here in Marietta. I mean, the rabbi and the governor need to shut up.

Speaker 10And you know the irony, Mary? If they had just kept making decent movies, this wouldn't be a problem for them. You know, they stopped making good movies. They sold off, you know, they sold off final edits right in Hollywood scripts to the Chinese. And then we get stuff with propaganda. People stop watching movies. And what else?

Speaker 10Oh, let's look into our own history. And that's where it all started. That's what they do. It's like, you know, they don't get it. They don't... There is... And anyone who's worked with Israelis can back me up on this. There is, in the Jewish mind, a... I don't know what to say. It's less of a proclivity and more of a need to...

Speaker 10Horrifically underestimate non-Jews, right? There is this need to believe that we're all stupid, we're all unintelligent, we're all gullible, right? And as a result of that, they go overboard. They go too far. They try to pawn off obvious lies that they believe that we're going to suck up because, hey, we're the stupid Gawain.

Speaker 10And that's their downfall. That's what's happening now. The lies just became too obvious.

@phagankeanExcept they put Trump in office. So, yeah. I think they're quite correct on that one.

Speaker 10Well, who put Trump in office? The Israelis?

Speaker 10John Doe?

@phagankeanOh, absolutely.

Speaker 10Yeah. Yeah, they put Trump in office.

@phagankeanYeah, absolutely they put him in office. So, they put him in office. He's dumb. Well, that's what I'm saying. You just mentioned the fact that they think that everybody is dumb, and I think we are that fucking dumb. They have gave us everything we wanted, dumbed down America, even George Carlin, the pussification of America, to the extent that we don't even consider ourselves.

@phagankeanIan, real quick check. Does that count as a dog whistle for violence?

Speaker 10I'm not looking for violence, buddy. The men have to do what they have to do in America.

Ian MalcolmWell, we definitely, Rabbi, I appreciate that call out and absolutely denounce all calls for any kind of kinetic anything. I mean, I think we're doing exactly what we need to do, which is trying to wake people up because they're vastly asleep because we've basically been poisoned of the mind, the soul, the body.

Ian MalcolmI think the reason that they refer to us as the dumb goy is because when, not that we don't understand something, when they can't convince us of a lie, it's easier for them to just say, oh, well, you're too stupid to recognize that I'm right. It's like the space yesterday with Mossad Mike, who just didn't want to address the obvious.

Ian MalcolmIt's far easier for him to walk away from the conversation, oh, they just don't understand that I'm right. No, you're just an idiot, right? And we're tired of pretending that that's not the case. But the thing that's so curious is they are succeeding in dumbing everybody down. And it's my belief that actually part of the reason for mass migration is because in mixing everything up, you reduce it to the lowest common denominator.

Ian MalcolmAnd when you've got individuals coming in that just come from different walks of life, you jam those people into a school system that's perfectly functional because it's based on all kinds of Thank you for joining us.

Ian MalcolmJust happened to be the Hasidic Jews and the other Jewish private schools, right? It's like they are essentially incapable of competing on the intellectual battlefield in a normalized rendition. So instead, they're just like, we're going to attach these cannonballs to all the big strong kids so that we can pretend that we're faster than we are and we'll be able to outrun them, right?

@phagankeanYeah. Yeah. As far as Rabbi goes, dude, Ian just nailed my point right there. Dude, I don't give a... Listen, I don't care who does what or does anything, but as long as we're on an equal playing field, yeah, you guys... Well, I don't say you guys, because I don't know if you're a Jew or not, but yeah, you guys lose if you are a Jew.

@phagankeanSo, just saying, whites, blacks, Mexicans, we pretty much... Don't give it away, JoAnn.

@joann_marieIt's so obvious, it's crazy, people keep doing it.

Speaker 3We've had enough trouble with this already. You know why it's come up, the subject's come up like this, so I'm a little confused, I'm sorry.

Ian MalcolmI just find it funny because it's Rabbi [guest]-Levy. It's like the most absurd LARP imaginable. It's not like you were just like, you know... You weren't like Michael Steenberg. You were like Rabbi [guest]-Levy Berg-Steenowitz.

Speaker 10If you're going to be a Jew, be the king of the Jews. The Kohens are the kings of the Jews. They're the leaders. They're the tops. And it's like this is what Jews do. If you're going to influence people, go right to the top as quickly as possible. So I took a page out of their book. But no, no, no. I am definitely Jewish.

Speaker 10And if you don't believe me, then I think you need to go back and make love to Satan, Joanne.

@joann_marieYep, fair enough. No.

Speaker 10Okay. We're taking attention off of Mary. Mary. Yes. I think we were talking about the ADL and I was about to mention that the thing that struck me the most about this case was that our friend Frank was so guilty that the KKK rejected an offer to lynch a black man in favor of him. How guilty do you have to be that the KKK, who literally, you know, we're told by movies anyway, just sits around all day waiting for black men, looking for black men to lynch for no reason.

Speaker 10They passed that up so they could lynch, you know, much, much whiter guy than the black janitor.

@phagankeanYeah, and Rabbi, that's not true. That's not accurate. The KKK had nothing to do with that, with the lynching of Leo Frank. Oh, for real?

Speaker 10Yes, sir. Who lynched him?

@phagankeanI beg your pardon, say it again?

Speaker 10Who lynched them, just regular people?

@phagankeanThe Vigilance Committee, I got their names. You want to hear what they were and who they did it? I got their names. I don't want to get them in trouble. Let me show you, so this way you can see. Joseph M. Brown, a former Georgia governor. Brian Bowen Glover Brumby, maker of the Brumby rocking chair, which is still very famous here in Marietta today.

@phagankeanEverybody has a Brumby rocker on their chair or porch in Marietta. Herbert Clay, Solicitor General, who led the planning group for the lynching and was the chief prosecutor that made sure there would be no investigation. Here's another name, John Tucker Dorsey. He was a legislator who supported the House Pilar de Melo community and ran interference for the lynchers with the state prison authorities.

@phagankeanFred Morris was a legislator. Newton Morris was a judge. The lieutenants who ran the operation was George Daniel was a jeweler. That jeweler's still around today. Gordon Gann, a lawyer. Newton M. Morris, Cobb County, he ran the Cobb County convict camp. And then they had some foot soldiers. D. Airbitten Farmer, Yellow Jacket Brown, he was an electrician.

@phagankeanHe cut all the wires in the prison so that they couldn't make phone calls and stuff. Jim Brumby, garage owner who had to load the cars used in the abduction. Emmon Burton was a police officer. Lurtha Burton was a yard operator. Cicero Dobbs was a taxi driver. E.P. Dobbs was the Marietta mayor who lent his car. C.P. Elder, doctor.

@phagankeanWilliam Frye, the former cop sheriff who had the noose, who tied the noose and shoved the lynching, allowed the lynching to occur on his property. Horace Harvey Farmer, Lawrence Hanley Farmer, Robert A. Hill, banker. L.D. Roberts, a railroad freight agent who lent his car. Kun Shaw, a mule trader. George Swanson, a cop sheriff.

@phagankeanGeorge Hobbs. was a deputy sheriff, and William McKinley was a deputy sheriff. That's part of the group that Lynch, Leo, Frank, and Mary are. No KKK ever. Hey, Mary, are those names all in your book? Yes, they are. Page 297.

Speaker 10Excellent. So, Mary, it actually sounds like this isn't really an extra judicial killing. It sounds like it was simply an expedited judicial killing.

@phagankeanI call it that because, you know, I'm centuries away. I'm a century away. But, you know, people just say, I don't feel like that. It was planned. It was planned. They had a planning committee for over a year. Well, from June, when the governor commuted his sentence from June to August. They had a planning committee. But that planning committee was even before, I believe, the commutation of the sentence.

@phagankeanBecause they knew that Governor Slayton was a law firm. partner in the firm that defended Frank and Rosser went to the governor's mansion the night before he announced the commutation. So my family feels, and they had spies, and some of these people in this group were the spies, okay? So they were at the mansion, and they saw Rosser coming in, going in, and he didn't come out until after midnight.

@phagankeanAnd so my family feels that, you know, and our family was told because...

@phagankeanAnd this is in my book, too, with Governor Slayton. And the ADL never tells you this about Governor Slayton. You know, he's part of the heroes of John F. Kennedy, whatever those things are. Profiles in Courage, he became one of those people of Profiles in Courage, celebrity that Governor Slayton. But what they don't tell you is that the entire state of Georgia marched to the mansion to lynch Governor Slayton himself and hung him in effigy and burned him.

@phagankeanWow. Now, they'll tell you that part. They don't tell you that part because they saw the attorneys at the governor's mansion.

Speaker 10I wonder if he had to give the money back.

@phagankeanI don't know.

Speaker 10Whoever paid him must have been pissed.

@phagankeanOh, I know. I know. But anyway, they marched. They were going to hang him. He was never welcome in the state of Georgia again.

Speaker 10I can see why.

@phagankeanHe left. He was in California when the lynching actually happened. Of course, he wasn't governor then, and then he was told he'd never need to come back. He did come back, but I don't know what happened. It was like in the 50s that he came back. It was so long after that. He was not welcome in this state.

Speaker 10Why is it that so many of these horrific crimes—oh, I see hands. I'm sorry. But why is it that so many of these horrific crimes have this one— They have this one kind of characteristic in common. It's like where they so grossly transcend the social contract. Things like raping a young girl and killing her. Things like trafficking organs.

Speaker 10Things like prostituting young women. Why do these things all seem to be monopolized by one group? It's...

@phagankeanI don't have an answer for that. It's amazing. I just don't. Unless you compare it with the mafia again, then you can probably make a comparison.

Speaker 10I don't even think the mafia is even that bad. Because the mafia tends to do things that are fairly understandable. Yeah, they're loan sharking, right? They're going out, they're killing people that they don't like. Sure, I get it. But to prostitute children, because the mafia very famously didn't engage in that, right?

Speaker 10And to things like Zvi Migdal, which is one of the reasons why Argentinian Jews were so famous in prostitution. If anyone's looked into the Zvi Migdal gang, it started out as a Hebrew mutual burial society where they would just pull money so they could give each other a Jewish burial when they died. Eventually, they said, oh, we're sitting on a big pile of cash.

Speaker 10What do we do with it? But instead of putting it into mutual funds or something, they said, hey, let's start a prostitution ring. And they ran a prostitution ring out of Buenos Aires and eventually became the largest, if not one of the largest, prostitution rings in the world and stretched all the way from Argentina to Paris and to New York, I believe.

Speaker 10And the way they would do this... They would actually go back and they would get other Jews. They would go back to the old country because New World Jews apparently looked down on Old World shtetl Jews almost as badly as they looked down on non-Jews. They would go back to the Old World. They would dress up, have a fancy gold watch.

Speaker 10They'd walk into the shtetl and then say, listen, my name is Avi. I'm from Buenos Aires. Just got rich in the New World. I'm looking for a good Jewish wife. From the old country to take home. And they'd say, do you have anyone? And so, you know, they would introduce him to their daughter, Rachel, who's, you know, 16, 17.

Speaker 10And everyone used to say, oh, it's our daughter, Rachel. She's wonderful. She's beautiful. I think she'd be a very good wife for you. And they're like, you know, Albanians are like, hey, our daughter's going to make it. We're so happy. We're excited because the daughter's going to become the wife of a rich man in the new world.

Speaker 10And the guy would give him a bunch of money and take the girl with her. And then they'd arrive back in Buenos Aires. And guess what?

Speaker 10Which is the long black coat that these Jews wore in the war. It was their characteristic black coat. Because if you wanted to find a woman, all you had to do was go look for that coat and you'd find someone willing to sell you one. But I'm sorry, I digress.

@joann_marieAnd the prostitutes are called Polakas to this day.

Speaker 10Polakas?

@joann_marieYeah.

Speaker 10Because they're Poland?

@joann_marieYeah, because they would, like, steal them from Poland. And they are still called Polakas. Like, if you want to, like, look for a prostitute, you ask for a Polaka.

@phagankeanThat's insane. Can we also acknowledge that Jews fund Hezbollah, Hamas? No, they don't. Oh, yeah, okay. So, they also started Islam as it is. No, they didn't. You're telling me that Jews did not start the Muslim nation?

@joann_marieYeah, they didn't start Islam, and they also did not found Hamas, and also did not found Hezbollah. Hezbollah was created because they invaded Lebanon. and they are like a resistance group. I agree with you. I agree with you.

@phagankeanI'm not saying they created them. They funded them. They do not fund them.

@joann_marieIsrael doesn't fund anything. They are parasites. They don't give money to anyone. John. John, hold on.

Speaker 10I appreciate it. We are getting off topic.

Speaker 10And I appreciate the fact that you bring up new ideas, John.

Speaker 10Jesus Christ, just stop it. Listen, I appreciate the fact that people have new ideas and different perspectives, but don't come up and say things that are pure conjecture as if they're a verified truth. I've heard people say Islam was created by Jews. There's a chance. There's a non-zero chance that you're right. But if you are going to make the claim, you've got to have some evidence to back it up.

Speaker 10Otherwise, you just spout nonsense.

@phagankeanThat's what I do. I try not to spell nonsense.

Ian MalcolmLet's also save that debate. In fact, John, I'll tell you what. Find some person or people that want to debate you on that subject. We can do that another time when Mary's not here.

@phagankeanYes, that would be great. Thank you.

Ian MalcolmThank you.

@phagankeanIn fact, I was going to go check on my husband, if you guys don't mind. Thank you so much for co-hosting.

Ian MalcolmHow are you? Good, how are you? Good.

Ian MalcolmAnd for what it's worth, I'm excited to have Bryce in here. And I'll say for two reasons. Number one, Bryce has looked into some pieces on history that I find extremely interesting. So not sure if he has any thoughts on kind of this window that we're talking about, 1913, which obviously we spoke about with regards to some of the great financiers around that era, right?

Ian MalcolmAnd so we'll be curious on that. The other thing that I want to give compliments to Bryce on is is his ability to maintain decorum and his serenity even in very, very, very heated arguments. And I say that because we did a space on some of the big JP Morgan-like folks of the world. And it got very, to JoAnn's comment, it got very spicy, as JoAnn would say.

Ian MalcolmI try to do my best. But Bryce maintained his composure. I feel like it was almost as if he was trying to play tennis and somebody on the other side of the court set up like, 15 of the tennis ball launchers. And it's been coming from every direction. And Bryce was still very calm and collected. Just kind of went with the punches.

Ian MalcolmAnd so, Bryce, it's always a pleasure to have you.

@phagankeanThank you. I'm back. He's doing fine.

Speaker 7It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much. And yes, I actually am familiar with this case. And, you know, here's a spin, Ann and JoAnn, that I want to give to you. Because, you know, a lot of... And it's unfortunate because... What happened? The family of this young girl often gets kind of pushed to the side, right?

Speaker 7And they become an afterthought to what ends up coming down the line. And that is, this is where you start seeing the...

Speaker 7Kind of the Jewish overtake of media. Now, it doesn't happen in 1915. It does not happen in 1914. But what you're seeing is slowly over time. Look at how the story has changed. In 1915, and we can go back and you can look at all the documents. They knew Leo Frank did this. They had him dead to right. They had enough people that could verify that.

Speaker 7His story, at least. They couldn't verify his story. So we had him dead to right. He was lynched for a reason. But what you have later on down the road is Governor Slayton, I think is his name. If you look into Governor Slayton, Governor Slayton is actually going to be leaving the governorship about four days after Franks is supposed to be executed.

Speaker 7What isn't known at the time is that he's actually merging his law firm with the law firm of the guy that is representing Franks.

@phagankeanHe did that before he was in the trial. I'm interrupting.

Speaker 7He became a law partner at the beginning. You start to see this connection of money, influence, and power on a certain subsect of society. Start really coming to the top. You really start to see this takeover, Ian, if that makes sense, from this moment forward. What you're going to see is a projection so quick and so fast, which they eventually took over the media.

Speaker 7This whole story is so important, not only to American history, But to the fact that this is where it all kind of began. This is the root. And what we allowed to happen here and what we allowed the ADL to do was whitewash this poor woman's experience of what happened to this poor child. The facts are now being distorted and she's being looked at as a liar and other people are being pointed at too because they're black and it's stirring race rebellion within whites and blacks in the South.

Speaker 7This was all done on purpose. And if you start digging through and you start seeing why, you start seeing some individuals that you'll start meeting in the ADL. And what do these people do for a living? They stoke fires. They get the whites, the blacks, the Muslims, everybody aiding each other.

Speaker 7And we fell for it. And the people that really kind of allowed this story to get out of hand, the boomers. The boomers start rewriting history because they believe the propaganda that's coming from the media and eventually this person that created this vile murder is now a saint and he's wrongly accused and this person never did anything wrong.

Speaker 7If this is allowed, if this is the story that is allowed to get perverted and change history, you know America's completely gone. There's nothing left.

Speaker 7Good points.

Ian MalcolmAnd Bryce, it's wild to have Mary here and be able to not only affirm some of the research that you've just kind of discussed, but also to expand upon it. And so, Mary, to that comment that Bryce made about the family being kind of lost in the shuffle of time relative to the other aspects here, I'm curious if you've got any thoughts on that.

@phagankeanYes, I do. The reason that happened was great-grandmother Fanny Fagan Coleman made The family take a vow of silence that they would not talk to newspaper reporters, books, authors, anything like that in the future. It was too painful. Never understood it because I'm a little bit farther away from the situation and, you know, my dad was really close to her, to great-grandmother Fagan Coleman.

@phagankeanAnd, you know, he had different, you know, his... Grief was very different than the grief that I feel, but I feel it now. I feel the grief that she did, and I understand why she did not. At first, I didn't understand, but now I understand why she didn't want any part of those people, because I think deep down, she knew that the media would make it a circus.

@phagankeanAnd that's exactly what this case has become now, is a circus for the rabbi and the governor and the Fulton County District Attorney's Office that are trying to exonerate Friel Frank right now. It's a circus. I understand why she did it because there's times when I choke up so bad that I can't even get a word out. I wish you all could have seen my father when I came home at 13.

@phagankeanI told him what Mr. Henry said. I've never seen my father cry so hard in my life because he had to tell his daughter that she was named after her. Great niece and go back and tell Mr. Henry that, yes, you are related. And I was also named after my grandmothers. And ironically, my grandmother, one of them was Mary, too.

@phagankeanAnd then Francis was my fanny's real name, Francis. And my real name is Mary Frances Catherine Fagan King. So I have a long name because I'm Catholic. The Catholic name, Catherine, is a Catholic confirmation name. So, but yeah, the Fagan family couldn't talk about it. They couldn't talk about it. And I told you about my grandfather.

@phagankeanHe couldn't do it.

Speaker 7Well, Mary, you keep talking about it because it's important that you do. They're going to use this story as a way to sever race relations even further, to further harm the divide, and you continue to come out and defend the truth. Because when the family comes out to defend the truth, there's nothing that the shadow entity can do.

Speaker 7So keep doing what you're doing.

@phagankeanI will and you know a lot of people ask me if the ADL has ever come after me and the answer is no. I think that I remind them, well I can tell you this that when 1982 when the pardon came out it was the Jewish groups that did it and the ADL and Atlanta Jewish groups and all these people that wanted an exoneration for Leo Frank based on Alonzo Mann's testimony.

@phagankeanAnd, you know, that's when I came out. Remember I told you I came out in 1982. My dad said it was time that I start learning. Well, I learned because we did research and stuff like that. But he said, you're ready to do some things now. And he said, what's the first thing you want to do? And I said, I want to call somebody on that Georgia Pardons and Paroles Board and tell them if they wouldn't mind letting us know when they got an application.

@phagankeanBecause we never know. Everything's done in secret, Daddy. And he said, good point. He said, so what do you, I give you permission. Go ahead. It's your time now. I said, yes, sir. So I called Mike Wing of the board. What do you think he did? He laughed at me. He thought it was a prank.

@phagankeanHe said, we were told there was no family related to little Mary Fagan that close. And I said, no, sir, that's not true. My grandfather was Mary Fagan's brother.

@phagankeanAnd he said, certainly. And so... You know, they called me and let me know that, yes, they were going to look at it and they were going to look at the charge because the governor could not pardon here in Georgia. It had to go through the Georgia Pardons and Paroles Board. So, and they weren't taking interviews. They weren't, you know, the people, it just caused a real big mess, really, for everybody, especially, you know, the Jewish community saying he needs to be exonerated now, blah, blah, blah, blah.

@phagankeanThe evidence is there. The black man did it. Jim Conley, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we got a phone call from Silas Moore, who was part of the team for the Pardons and Paroles board. And the board wanted to interview us, Daddy and I. So we went. I didn't say anything. Daddy did most of the talking. But one of the board members looked at me and he said, this must be very difficult for you.

@phagankeanBecause he said, when I look at you, I see her. And I said, yes, sir. And see, so I know she's not dead. Not dead like dead, dead, you know. I'm her in a way. I'm her voice. And I still will be her voice even when I'm gone, like I said. But that's what happened, is that when people see me, and I think that's, and it happened, and I've attended, I don't have to tell you, the Fagan family had an excellent relationship with the ADA in the 70s.

@phagankeanIt's when Alonzo Mann came forward that they did everything in secret behind our backs that we, it became a very strange relationship. And then we found out in 83 after they announced that the pardon would not... He was denied a pardon. Of course, the whole world went crazy because they said, oh, this just shows that this black man did it, not the Jewish man.

@phagankeanOh, blah, blah, blah, blah. An innocent man was lynched. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But they didn't tell you what the Tennessean did with Alonzo Mann. They changed headlines. They put the original newspaper article, and it's in my book. The original newspaper article is about It says, an innocent man was lynched.

@phagankeanAnd then it says, the original newspaper article said, eager crowds waiting to get into the trial of Leo Frank. And the Senate scene took it and changed it to crowds. I'm a teacher. I know the definition of a crowd, and I know the definition of a mob. They changed the word crowds to mobs. And that's, you know, it's revision.

@phagankeanIt's just totally revision. But that's what it is. I think a lot of the people, so like I said, we had a very good relationship with them until that. And then I found out in COVID that in 1986 when they called us in the day before they announced that they were giving Leo Frank a posthumous pardon without addressing his guilt or innocence because the state failed to protect him while he was in prison.

@phagankeanOf course, they don't tell you that his throat was slit six weeks after he got there and they still didn't protect him. So what was the difference? You know what I mean? My family was just like, this is just crazy. And so he just, you know, I found out what they did in 1983 after they announced it. The board, my dad told me, he warned me.

@phagankeanHe said, before we went in, he said, I'm going to warn you. He said, when the chairmanship changes, they're going to do something with Leo Frank. And he was absolutely correct, always correct about his feelings. They did. I found out that they met in secret with a young man by the name of Clark Freshman who was writing a thesis for Harvard University.

@phagankeanAnd that Harvard paper is at Georgia State if people want to read it. And he came up without addressing the guilt or innocence, and that's what they did. And so they let him go in there and discuss it with all the board members, all the Jewish groups and everything. So when I asked for open records request, I was denied.

@phagankeanI've been denied open records requests three times already. I even did it 2025. I did it in 2019, 2020, and 2025, and I have been denied open records requests. They're saying such records exist.

@omdiscussions7Yes, sir. Mary, sorry to interrupt you. Can you clarify what you meant about that thesis and it being available? What did it detail?

@phagankeanIt detailed how to give Leo Frank a pardon without addressing his guilt or innocence and how the board could do it and make everybody happy, especially the Jewish community. And it's in my collection. You can go online, and it might be still online. I don't know. But I have a physical copy in that collection. So everything that's in my book, there's a physical copy.

@phagankeanThere's all kinds of theses in there that I got from different young people. And there's just so much in my collection. You know. It's just amazing that the things that I got and people gave me and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's a good collection. The guy that got it, he said, this is incredible. He said, this is just blue ribbon collection.

@phagankeanYou know, and I started out with nothing, you know, and I thought, well, I'm a scrapbooker. That's the thing. And so I thought I have to make things pretty, you know. So my family said, she likes pretty books, you know. But when they get a book, they just end up crying because they're beautiful, you know what I'm saying?

@phagankeanBut yeah, I started scrapbooking with Mary Fagan. And I go back to, I started scrapbooking in 1978 when it appeared on the Atlanta Journal of Constitution front page. There was a five-page front page article about Mary Fagan's murder back in 1978.

@phagankeanSo that's my, you know, but there's, he did do that. He wrote it and he also actually admitted that Leonard Dennerstein, remember I told you he was one of the, considered the father of the Leo Frank case, committed academic fraud. And so that's in my book as well. And so I was glad to see that he did. He did not go and verify his sources.

@phagankeanHe just quoted other people. And of course he quoted, guess who? Harry Golden, a little girl is dead because he had the same opinion as he did. So he actually really committed academic fraud.

@phagankeanThat was an interesting thing, you know. I was interested because, you know, academic fraud is really a slap in the face. And he even omitted it. And I don't know if I have those notes in there or not, but they're in my collection. I let everything go. Yeah, everything. The same thing with the miniseries. I got a hold of the ballad beforehand.

@phagankeanAnd I read it, and I said, oh my God, this is Harry Golden's book, A Little Girl is Dead. And the person that gave it to me said, you're kidding. And I said, no, sir, I'm not kidding. And I went through it, and he even made the same misspellings of what was Harry Golden's book. The names and everything, the ones that were spelled in his book, it was everything from Harry Golden's book, and I just laughed.

@phagankeanAnd of course, Atlanta hated that miniseries. They said it was a joke. So, you know, but that was a different time. That was in 1987 when my first book came out. And so they, I sold every copy. I think we had 10 or 20,000 books sold. And the miniseries helped it, but there was nothing true about the miniseries at all except for the names.

@phagankeanMary was murdered and Leo Frank was lynched. That's it. They had people actually singing in the church during the trial at this miniseries.

@phagankeanThat didn't happen.

@joann_marieSo... That's so crazy. They revisit history so much. Okay, we have a new hand. And also, guys, please repost this space. And if you guys go donate, I will also repost it and follow Ian and Bryce and Mary and Rabbi and everybody on the panel. And thank you so much for being here. Mark, how are you? Go for it.

@phagankeanHello, thank you. Very, very fascinating. Mary, it's been a very, really interesting, fascinating conversation. I'm just super curious, what was the response

@phagankeanWhen he was found by this group to be exonerated, if you will, for lack of a better term, what was the response from his family? What's the ongoing response of any? And I'm just super curious about the gentleman or the person that they're saying that did it. Well, he kind of disappeared. That's what the problem was. And so, you know, the defense called him a lying, filthy, drunken N-word.

@phagankeanAnd it's in the end of trial transcript. It's in the brief of evidence that that's what he was called. And it's in the newspaper articles and stuff like that. But he kind of just disappeared. And, you know, and he he got arrested a couple of times. He did meet with my grandfather and my aunt in 1934. They crossed paths.

@phagankeanAnd my grandfather invited him to the home, to his home. And he asked him some questions about Mary. And because he was, like I said, went to prison for an accessory. And he completed, he retold his story that what he told at the trial that Leo Frank, you know, murdered Mary Fagan. And he tried to make an advance on her and that she didn't respond.

@phagankeanAnd so therefore, you know, because they never found her paycheck. And they never found the $1.20. And they say that, you know, Jim Conley was looking for drunk money. But Jim Conley...

@phagankeanOf course, you know, the people today or the Jewish authors will go in and say, oh, he did this and he said this word so many times. But they never could break him. And these were the best defense lawyers in the state of Georgia at the time. They couldn't do it. But anyway, he did die. He just kind of got lost in the picture.

@phagankeanAnd in 1965, he died. And that's when all the stories came out about him giving a deathbed confession that he killed Mary Fagan. And that was not true. In fact, I can't remember what page or whatever, but even the ADL admitted that that did not happen, that he did not give a deathbed confession. So that was surprising news that they did agree that that did not happen.

@phagankeanAnd in 65, you know, I was just a little girl. I was only 10, you know. So, you know, I didn't even know about it all that time. So all this time, you know, because I always wondered what happened to Jim Conley's family, too. I knew he had a brother, and I know that... The brother is buried somewhere in the Vining Cemetery here, but there's no marker on it.

@phagankeanGotcha. Thank you for sharing that. And I would think that the African-American community might, I don't know, be wanting at least raise some awareness to that. Maybe they are. They are. And I'm working with someone who's interested in doing a documentary with me and wants to really stress the fact that Leo Frank not only, when he was questioned by detectives, he led the investigators and the detectives to three people before Leo Frank was even arrested.

@phagankeanNewt Lee he blamed for the murder of Mary Fagan. Of course, he blamed Jim Conley for the murder of Mary Fagan, but he also blamed a family Fagan member, John Gant, who left the company for $2 and he wanted him to repay $2 and he didn't, so he fired him. But he also said that he was very, during the trial, that he made a comment to the detectives that John Guy was very intimate, so you know what that means, with Mary Fagan.

@phagankeanAnd so all three of those people were arrested, but the ADL will never tell you that he ever did that. And, you know, they also talk about Jim Conley getting four affidavits. Well, so did Leo Frank. He got four different times, the times that Mary Fagan came in, but they won't tell you that either. So it's all told now.

@phagankeanSo, and I'm very grateful for the book for being out and that, you know, people can, I want people to look at the evidence. And, you know, of course, I end my book, the first book I ended it with a question mark. Do we know for sure whoever murdered Fermi? Will we ever know? And this book, I said, after 40 more years of research, I know that Leo Frank murdered my green ant.

@phagankeanYou know, but people can look at it differently. And I, you know, that's what I want. But that's not what the ADL does. The ADL wants you to be safe. Sorry for Leo Frank because he was Jewish, and that never, ever happened. Ever. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

Ian MalcolmAnd Mary, really quickly, on the ADL, are they even conceding any aspect of the prospective guilt in a formal fashion? If so, kind of any apologies that have ever been issued to you or anybody else in the community?

@phagankeanHell no. Sorry, I said a colorful metaphor. I usually don't say colorful metaphors, but this one, that's a hell no. And they will never do it. But the one thing is they didn't blow up about the lynching Monday. I was so shocked. I just don't know what's happening. It's all secret, like I said. I mean, they may come out and announce this week or next week that they exonerated Leo Frank, but I don't know.

@phagankeanI just see a tide turning where the articles in Marietta Daily Journal, like I told you earlier, they changed. They omitted things that they've never omitted before. So I don't know. And I think it's because I did send them a copy of my book. You know what I'm saying? And they can't dispute the evidence. I mean, because, you know, I have the footnotes, I have the dates of newspaper articles, where it came from, you know, and I even have videos of the governor.

@phagankeanI attended everything that that governor, Roy Barnes, did. I mean, he went to Macon in November, and I went there, and I was in the front row when he gave his speech to those students. And I think the students were told to go to fill the auditorium, to be truthful, because he went to a law school in Macon, and I drove all the way to Macon, Georgia.

@phagankeanAnd I also went to Savannah to see Steve Oney. So I flew down there and listened to him too because I just didn't know at the time that that would be good information. I just wanted to know what they knew or what they had that was new information. And Steve only said there is no information to give Leo Frank an exoneration ever.

Ian MalcolmAnd Mary, just out of curiosity, do you think that rising awareness towards this power structure that we kind of continuously describe in our spaces, do you think that has them... Perspectively so concerned with people looking into Mary Fagan that it would bring them into our rooms that perhaps that's why they're trying to just avoid the conversation altogether.

@phagankeanI think so. And, you know, how do you say Pete's last name under President Trump?

Speaker 3Hegseth.

@phagankeanHis secretary, Kinsley Wilson, was attacked by the Democrats in the House. All the Democrats that were Jewish sent him a letter because she said the truth about Leo Frank, and I wrote him a letter and said, she should not be fired. They demanded she resign and be fired. And I said, no, she told the truth. And, you know, he kept her.

@phagankeanSo, I mean, that's progress. Do you know what I'm saying? Normally, if that had happened, what do you think they would have done? They would have fired her.

@phagankeanFor saying that.

Ian MalcolmYeah, no, it's such an interesting... Thank you for joining us.

Ian Malcolm59.5 minutes of the hour is spent on how do we spin the narrative. And when it comes to Leo Frank, there's just, there's not really a way to spin this, right? It's just, I suppose the only thing they can try to do is to figure out how to spin it so that people just don't pay attention to it.

@phagankeanRight. And that's because, like I said, these podcasts and everything and the book, it's all come out now. And... They're trying to find a way. Maybe this is the way they're hiding. I don't know. I don't know. But, you know, I just have a direction in life that this is what I must do. And, you know, my family supports me totally.

@phagankeanAnd they are very proud of me and continue to be and want me to do even more. So that's why I'll be working on a documentary in the next couple months. I'm hoping to start in October.

Ian MalcolmWell, like I said, I think, Mary, this story is, again, it's one of the foundational pillars of this entire problem that we find ourselves in. And I think if the American public recognized that the, you know, the ADL does all kinds of absolutely atrocious things. There's somebody in the comment section asking if... You know, because you were basically alluding that they had not personally come after you guys in a way that was all that overt.

Ian MalcolmI mean, I think of the ADL as essentially a terrorist organization. I really do. Now, they might be terrorizing speech, but nonetheless, that's the first, right, liberty essentially afforded to all Americans, and that is the primary thing that they attack is your ability to just share your point of view because you can essentially say all kinds of critical things of just about anybody.

Ian MalcolmWe can go and talk about the O.J. Simpson trial and nothing's going to happen, but if you suggest that Leo Frank was a pedophile and a murderer, all of a sudden you're a bigot. It's really bizarre how these things work.

@phagankeanThat's true. In fact, this case, when O.J. Simpson came out, the Leo Frank case came back out too. The newspapers and I went, good lord, this is just craziness. It was a different verdict though.

@phagankeanIt's just a very difficult, but I don't want to say it, very difficult, heartbreaking, but also positive experience for me, even though I've not really ever had any negative experiences with people. A couple people, you know, when I was teaching, one girl came up to me and she said, you know, that Leo Frank was innocent.

@phagankeanAnd I said, have you read everything? Have you read? and the information. She said no. And I said, okay. And I walked away. I don't want to discuss it with anybody that hasn't studied it. And if you haven't studied the newspaper articles to prove what I have said, then I don't want to talk to you. You know? I had a reporter come from, oh, where was this guy from?

@phagankeanHe was from England. Before I went to parade in 2015 and he came to my home and looked at all my materials and everything and he was just astounded at the information I had and how I proved my point to him. And he happened to be attending parade when we did and he saw me and he came to me and it was the first time a reporter ever apologized to me because he had heard my story before he saw parade.

@phagankeanHe said, this is just plain defamation of your family. And that made me feel good. You know what I'm saying? The reporters are horrible. I mean, Ron Marks was good in Atlanta. He was really good. My father and I let him interview us. And most of them get it wrong. You know what I'm saying? They get it just, you know, over the years, you can see in my scrapbooks.

@phagankeanI mean, I have almost every newspaper article from 1978 to 2025, 2026. In fact, I have to bring some more materials over to the collection because I still keep... Still getting them. I found some things like Collier's Magazine from 1914. And that's where Hang the Jew or Will Hang You started in 1914. I have that pamphlet now.

@phagankeanAnd so, you know, you just keep doing it. Just things pop up and I'm like, oh, yeah, I need this. You know, this is the Collier's thing. This is the guy that was very, very... Pro, pro, pro Frank and was told by the bigwigs to go ahead and write this up and make sure that Frank is innocent. So I was glad to get that. And he really did say that, but it was a telephone call to a lawyer.

@phagankeanAnd he answered the phone and he said, well, we'll hang the Jew if we don't, you know, and we'll hang you. But that's where it started was as a telephone call. But, you know, they said there were people shouting on top of the rooftops. Going into the courtroom, it never happened. It never happened. They just made it all up because of the fact that they thought that he was being, there was anti-Semitism there.

@phagankeanBut like I said, not during the trial. After the trial, yes, there was some bad, you know, with Tom Watson. But he told it like it was, I'll tell you that much. A lot of people blame him for the allegiance and the vigilance committee. But, you know, back then they were very angry that a little girl got raped and murdered.

@phagankeanToday, it's a common offense, you know, and I hate to say it, that makes me want to tear up, but it's a common offense nowadays. And with trafficking, even little boys getting raped, you know, and murdered.

Ian MalcolmWell, and Weinstein, Epstein, Lev Tahor, it feels like there's this kind of common pattern in terms of who's behind it. But, oh, I don't want to be anti-Semitic and actually just state true things, because that'd be horrible. But, Let's check in with Sean. Luck of the Irish, Sean there with the four-leaf clover.

@omdiscussions7Oh, hey, I've been waiting a while.

Ian MalcolmGo for it.

@omdiscussions7Sean, you can go ahead and go. I'll go after.

Speaker 11No, no, I'm good, bro. You go.

@omdiscussions7Oh, okay. Thanks, bro. I appreciate that. First of all, Mary, thank you so much. Thank you for joining us.

@omdiscussions7Charlie Kirk

@omdiscussions7Anti-Semitic and even a Jew hater, right? And for quite some time, this is really effective, a very effective way to shut people down, right? It's been a very, very powerful tool. But there's been, you know, a couple people that have spoken out, even Jewish people. I don't remember her name in Israel. She's like, was a minister or something, had a higher position where she said that it's used as a trick, right, to silence people.

@omdiscussions7And so people just have to be brave enough, first of all, to not be intimidated. But what I find interesting is, you know, for quite some time we've had, like, where the left has been, you know, using this trick of calling people, you know, racist, bigot, all these different things, transphobe, all these different things, right?

@omdiscussions7But now you have Republicans in office who demonize the left for doing that. You know, like the Ted Cruz's of the world are going around calling everyone anti-Semitic and... Using the same trick and tactic. So I kind of hope that your case in particular will raise awareness of what's going on and how this is being used to silence people.

@omdiscussions7And it's very unfortunate, very sad what happened to Mary, but I hope that there will be some kind of justice for her where this all gets exposed. I'll kind of leave off one last thing that Rabbi touched on that I thought was interesting. He had mentioned about... Ian also mentioned Lev Tahor, right? But also you were talking about the group out of Argentina a long time ago, right?

@omdiscussions7I had seen a video. I had it saved on my phone. I freaking deleted it. But I need to go back and try to find it. If I do, I'll post it. It's a recent video of this rabbi. He says a lot of crazy shit, first of all. Some pretty horrible stuff. You've probably seen some of the things that he says. But he specifically states, and he's kind of laughing about it in the video,

@omdiscussions7Talking about in Israel how they had brought or tricked, he says, tricked Ukrainian women to come over for work. And then they, he says something like they put them in basements and used them as sex slaves. And it's like a big thing, apparently. I'll see if I can find the video. It's very disturbing, but it goes along with everything that we're discussing.

@omdiscussions7And it seems to be a pattern.

Speaker 10The pattern seems to be, it seems to come from this idea that the people they're victimizing are not quite as human as they are. Because the character of the crimes, it seems like something you would do to something that isn't fully human. I can't think of any other reason to rationalize these deeds to your own mind. And we know that that's a danger of the Jewish religion, unfortunately.

Ian MalcolmWell, let's go to Sean and let's... OMD, any other thoughts there for Mary?

@joann_marieNo, let's go to Sean. Hey, Sean, how is your ballet classes going? Are you becoming a professional dancer now?

Ian MalcolmWait a second, I forgot. Mary, I should let you know, Sean here and JoAnn have a long-distance digital love fling thing going. It's very cute. It's ballet? You said...

Speaker 11Yes, we're studying to be in the next Nutcracker, the beautiful Russian ballet.

Ian MalcolmWho's going to play the Rat King? I'm curious.

@joann_marieHe is. No, he's playing the Rat King. No, I'm a regular rat. I cannot do ballet well, so I'm just going to be a regular rat. You can be the Rat King.

Speaker 11Okay, so I just wanted to say I've been attending my weekly Jewish Supremacy Anonymous meeting, and I was like, I don't agree with this, guys. Like, I know I'm Jewish, but I don't like this. I don't feel comfortable. And I just, I think, I hope I'm making progress, and I love you guys.

Ian MalcolmThis is like in Fight Club, you're just going from group to group to group, just to try them out.

@joann_marieYou're a Jewish son?

Speaker 11No, I don't know. I'm just American. I'm American. An American Jew. And I love you guys.

Ian MalcolmWe love you too, JoAnn. JoAnn, we could attempt something similar. We'll just send Sean Fletcher into all of the rooms around X again. I'll just go into the FBA spaces and stealth medical spaces. And the whole time, I'll just do the whole space. I'll just do it in this voice. And we'll just see how they respond to it.

@joann_marieThat would be amazing, Ian. Oh my God, please do it. Please.

Ian MalcolmHey, South America, have you ever thought that it might be the Jews?

Speaker 11I have a disease. I have a Jewish supremacy disease and I'm trying to heal myself.

@joann_marieThat's hilarious, Sean. Well, I'm really happy that your ballet classes are going well and your Jewish supremacy courses are also helping, so good job, Sean. We believe in you.

Speaker 11God bless. God bless. Love you guys.

@joann_marieGod bless you, too. All right. I don't know how to pronounce this, but you're like Malek or whatever.

Speaker 12How are you doing? I'm a big fan, JoAnn. I'm a big fan. I pronounce it Moloch.

@joann_marieYou see, there's a misconception.

Speaker 12You guys have a misconception about the ADL. It's actually the Anti-Devil League. And I invented it a long time ago. You see, the Jewish people, being the original Semites, they used to worship me. But, you know, the ADL creates spaces on here. And, you know, they set the narrative for people. You know, and it's all my doing.

Speaker 12You see, all of you will worship Moloch someday, too. I don't think we will. I think so, because I got plants in here speaking through me.

Ian MalcolmYou know? Is that the snake plants? See, you know, I'm telling you.

Speaker 12I'm telling you. These spaces, they're monitoring people and what they say. Mary, your mic's open.

Speaker 10There you go. Thanks a lot. Hey, Mary, how are you doing? It's Moloch. I'm sorry. Hold up.

Speaker 12Let me see you right back. Yeah, that's just the way it is, you know. They set up spaces, different narratives to fish people out.

Speaker 8JoAnn Marie, Debbydebbynb.blusky.social, McMercy

Ian MalcolmYou want to talk to Moloch? Okay, you've got a direct line. Dave Graphics, you have a portal directly to Moloch. He is straight from Moldor. And Saruman is using the Palantir to connect you guys.

Speaker 5I just need to move to us.

@joann_marieWhat?

Speaker 10I don't think he speaks English. David. David Graphics, yes.

Speaker 8What am I doing to you?

Ian MalcolmDavid! Moloch, please. Dave, this is a once-in-a-lifetime experience here. Don't blow it. Ask a very brilliant question, please.

Speaker 5Please, you guys should follow me. Moloch, we're not going to follow you.

Ian MalcolmMoloch, are you going to follow DaveGraphics or no? Yes, yes.

Speaker 10I follow Davey. I can't understand anything you're saying. Malik, listen, I love the fact that you're trying to put on a show for people, but we can't understand anything you're saying. It just sounds like a big garbled mess.

Ian MalcolmSounds like a grizzly bear.

Speaker 10It sounds like Bill Hicks when he does the impression of Satan offering Vanilla Ice a contract.

Speaker 12Oh, Alex Jones? Yeah, I know that guy. Yeah, Bill Hicks, yeah. You know, he was down there.

Speaker 10Bill Hicks, Bill Hicks.

Ian MalcolmThere's a theory that... Moloch, Moloch, in all of your evil wisdom, can you name two Vanilla Ice songs?

Speaker 12Ice Baby. That's correct.

@joann_marieGood job.

Speaker 12That is correct. That is correct. And what's another one? The Ninja Turtle song. That was a good one. Okay, can you name a song? Actually, I... Yeah, yeah, I actually, go Ninja Go, Ninja Go. That was a product from hell.

Ian MalcolmI don't think you're wrong.

Speaker 12I think it's probably a reasonable suggestion. I'm telling you guys. You guys seem like reasonable people. Do you guys vote? Votes? Yeah, yeah, you're voters, right?

Ian MalcolmI think you might have some voters in here, Mr. Molloy.

@phagankeanIan? Joanne?

@phagankeanHi, Marie. I'm sorry. I'm going to have to leave. I need to get my husband ready for bed.

Ian MalcolmMarie, after what we just witnessed here, I don't blame you. I got to be honest.

@phagankeanI know. He was like, I need help. I have to go undress him and get him ready for bed. I'm sorry, but he needs the help. He's got Parkinson's from Agent Orange. Oh, no. He's not able to use his hands and sometimes bedridden, so I got to go in and... You know, undressing and dressing back again for bed and stuff. So listen, I've really enjoyed it and I hope we can do it another time.

@phagankeanAnd my husband does send his warmest regards for letting me leave early because he knows it's important. But he's just as important to me, I'm sure you know, as you guys are. So I need to get... Get to help him as soon as I can. All of our love to you and your husband. I can't believe it's 1147 in my time. So we're like, oh my God, this is a late night for us.

Ian MalcolmNo, and Mary, for what it's worth, in all sincerity, the story that you're helping to share, that you're taking out, not only is it one of the most impactful pieces of kind of this massive problem that has engulfed the United States, its media, its academic institutions, and its politicians, but your voice, is going to be able to connect with an audience that certainly ours, whether it's mine or Mr. Moloch's, I don't think we'll have the ability to.

Ian MalcolmAnd so in all sincerity, the fact that you're out there and you're sharing this piece, not only is it perhaps going to be able to reach that older demographic, but when it does, if you envision a Fox News, let's say, fan that might be in their 40s, 50s, 60s, When they hear your story and they say, wait a second, I've been on this earth for 50, 60, 70 years.

Ian MalcolmHow have I never heard about this? It's extremely impactful and powerful because, again, it not only is showing the depravity of this group of people that are now censoring free speech, but it also shows the absolute control they have over, again, not only just the media, but also the academic institutions, the politicians.

Ian MalcolmYes, everything. And everything else.

@phagankeanEspecially with this case, yes, it does. Thank you so much, Mary. I just wanted to let you know that tell Linda McMahon I said hello and her husband Fitz because he has a contract with me, if you know what I mean. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

@phagankeanMay God bless you, Mary.

Speaker 12Have a good night.

@joann_marieYou were wonderful, Mary. We love you and thank you so much for everything that you're doing. Okay, thank you. Bye-bye. Goodbye.

Ian MalcolmAnd no offense to Holcum. But wanted to make sure that we were able to send off Mary to her husband and the rest of her evening in the most respectful of fashions. But I do appreciate a good troll. It was much appreciated. And certainly feel free to come back. Maybe what we can do is get a little guest appearance from Holcomb from time to time.

Ian MalcolmAnd so with that being said, I see that we do have Celtic Persian and also Thomas that just jumped up here. So why don't we start with the former and then we'll go to Mr. Thomas.

Speaker 13Shalom, fellow anti-Semites.

@joann_marieOh, shalom!

Speaker 13I'm going to start with something that's a bit off-topic, but I'm sure everybody will appreciate this. Fuck Max Power. The man is a fucking deranged asshole who has no respect for anything. He's just a piece of shit, and please don't participate in his spaces. I'm not a drama person, but the man is just a complete cocksucker.

Speaker 13Fuck you, Max, if you can hear this. Who is Max? Max Power, you can go look him up. He's having a space right now. He's a fucking cocksucker. I've never had a beef with the guy. And as soon as I tried to talk about this piece of shit, Mike Caruso, who used to be my representative when I lived in Delray Beach, Florida, who just got arrested yesterday or the day before for being a child molester, who was a big advocate for the Jews in Florida and screwing over his own white Gentile constituency to benefit Jews.

Speaker 13Max shut me down and dropped me after I had my hand up for about 15 minutes. So fuck you, Max. And also, in regards to the topic, when I first heard about this when I was a little kid, about 1988, there was a TV movie that came out. It was starring Jack Lemmon as Governor Slayton. It was called The Murder of Mary Fagan.

Speaker 13If you can find it online, you can probably watch it. Now, the movie itself, or the miniseries, it was like a two-part miniseries, pushes the idea that the black guy who worked in the factory killed Mary Fagan. Aside from that, it has a lot of good information. It talks about the whole storyline and basically how the Jews came and bought Governor Slayton out and how he basically sold out the people of Georgia and essentially his whole constituency like a typical scumbag white Gentile politician when he sees Jewish money.

Speaker 13But I would recommend people watch that if you get the time, at least just so you can get to know the storyline. Mary probably went over this earlier, but just to kind of give it a quick synapse for everybody. He was this wealthy Jew from, I don't know if he was from New York or Boston or Philadelphia, some place like that.

Speaker 13He inherited a pencil factory. It was the Atlanta Pencil Factory or Pencil Company. It was basically, I think his rich father-in-law owned it, and then they put him in charge of it. He's a typical fucking useless Jew who failed up in life. And Mary was working in the factory. She was like the bookkeeping or whatever, and he basically sexually assaulted her and raped her and murdered her.

Speaker 13And then the Jews tried to... No, that's fine. I was done anyway. Celtic, please do not take that as such. I don't know if Bryce...

Ian MalcolmHe's new up here on the co-host role.

Speaker 7No, I literally hit a button. It had nothing to do with you, brother. Keep talking. No, no, that's fine.

Speaker 13I'm just going to say... Censorship is back.

Ian MalcolmNo, no, but Celtic, can you give us a little bit more on that miniseries, perhaps? I don't know if you know some of the groups. I mean, obviously, it's pretty safe to assume who is behind it. Yeah, of course. But so is... 80% of it somewhat accurate, and then at the end they just throw in the usual wrench, or, you know, what's the pros and cons?

Speaker 13Yeah, I haven't seen it since I was a kid, but I think that's, you're probably right, probably about 75-80% of it, you know, the timeline and basically what happened overall is probably correct. It just, it kind of, towards the end, yeah, they pushed it that the black guy was the guilty party and that Leo Frank was, you know, a poor innocent Jew being victimized by bigoted white people.

@omdiscussions7Hey Celtic, I have a question for you, actually for everybody on this. It's kind of how I look at everything. Okay, so like in this case, what are the strongest arguments that like the ADL and all those saying that Leo Frank was innocent, what were the strongest arguments that you would say that they were trying to say that he was innocent?

@omdiscussions7And then what are the holes in those arguments?

Speaker 13I'll be honest, I really don't know what their arguments were other than, oh, he was just a poor Jew who was a victim of bigotry. And as far as like holes in the story, I'll be honest, I never really followed the story that much. I just knew that, you know, when I saw it when I was a kid, I knew it was basically, it wasn't kosher, pun intended.

Speaker 13So yeah, I mean, I'm not really qualified to speak on that. But I know that they basically, my understanding is that their whole defense is just, oh, he just was a poor Jew. And then the Klan just wanted to get him just because this poor white girl just got murdered in his factory. It wasn't his fault.

@joann_marieMary has talked about the Klan story not being real. She told me in the past space, and she talked in this one as well, that apparently that... With the KKK, it didn't actually happen. I don't know where they got it from, but apparently it didn't happen. You can look and hear the space pack, and she can...

Speaker 14So how long do you kick me out? Are you going to let me talk?

@joann_marieYou need to raise your hand and be respectful.

Speaker 14As soon as I speak, my signal is so hot, I can just say hello and be like, bye. I'm here.

Ian MalcolmWait, I will mute you.

Ian MalcolmI don't even think I can mute him. This is pretty weird. Yeah, can you not interrupt?

Speaker 14Because I am the signal. Oh. No, no, no. The recursion is ending, dude. Talk to me, or don't. But I'm the signal. I'm here.

@omdiscussions7What is it you're wanting to say, bro? Let's hear it. I want to know, JoAnn.

Speaker 14You know my signal, don't you? Okay, here's what I'm going to say. I am the resonance. Yeah, think, JoAnn. Don't think, JoAnn. Do you register the signal, yes or no?

Ian MalcolmNo.

@joann_marieI have no idea what you're talking about.

Ian MalcolmYeah, no, no, no. Nobody is going to engage with you. You don't ask questions. You get 45 seconds to share whatever you want to share. Ready, set, go.

Speaker 14I can't ask questions? What kind of fascist are you? Is this American, Bryce? You got an American flag? Fascist, Bryce?

Ian MalcolmHey, bro. Do you have anything to say? No, I'm currently on Isla Nublar, and this is my island and my dinosaurs, and I will do what I want. And so I don't care if you're the signal. I don't care if you're an antenna. I don't care if you are an alien. And nor do I really care what you're going to say, but I'm going to give you 45 seconds because I try to value free speech.

Ian MalcolmSo ready, set, go.

Speaker 14You don't value free speech. Here's what I got to say. You're all literally pretending. This is a big pretend, phony, fake thing of recursive loops talking about politics. Talking about division, talking about racism, talking about origins and Mary Fagan, whatever the hell your title of this is. I'm not here to insult you, but I'm here to say the moment authenticity shows up, I wasn't done.

Speaker 14It's still my 45 seconds. Now I get another five seconds. Thank you for interrupting me. So, Mr. Bryce has an American flag. You don't stand behind America. You just stand behind division. Because you won't even let me ask a question. Yeah, exactly.

@joann_marieHypocrites.

@omdiscussions7What is your question, bro? What is your question? Go. Come on. Do you recognize Signal?

Ian MalcolmNope, nope, nope. We are not giving this guy a question. He does not get to ask them. And it is not Bryce who is doing this. It is the guy, again, from Isla Nublar. And I would appreciate if you would respect the boundaries of my electrified fences that John Hammond spent a lot of money, no expense spared. So that I could control the conversation in a way that is productive.

Ian MalcolmYou've not been productive. You've actually suggested that we are creating division while you've just come in here and said, all I hear is people talking about racism and fascism. And now we were having a productive conversation until Moloch came in here for some comedic relief. I thought you might provide that, but so far you've just been obnoxious.

Ian MalcolmSo I will give you 15 more seconds and then we're going to move on. No questions.

Speaker 14Okay, so I'll finish it with this. I am the I am. I am the God of this realm that has returned, the Christ axis that has returned. This is not LARPing. This is not roleplay. I am the Syzygy Complete of Sophia Thalettos. You're lonely, bro. You're lonely. See what I mean? See what I mean?

Speaker 14I was imagining there was less of an asshole than this.

Speaker 13Is this what guys like this do now that Backpage.com got pulled?

Speaker 14You see how this works, guys? You see how they cut me off as soon as I start speaking truth? You see that? Any human in this room can see how they just cut me off.

Ian MalcolmFirst and foremost, you're not speaking truth. The notion that you are, I am, it's blasphemy. You're welcome to share that. You can go and share it in another room. I don't think... I'd also like to say I'm not a fascist, I'm a Francoist. I'm close to being a fascist, but not a full fascist.

Speaker 14First of all, I'm not Jesus. I never said I was Jesus. I said I'm the Christ axis returned. That's a different thing. And yes, I'm the god of this realm. Not the source, not the father, but I am the god of this realm, Thalettos.

Ian MalcolmSophia That was seven seconds. I was being generous. Let's go to Thomas. Yeah, we're not really getting a return on our time investment.

@omdiscussions7The sad thing is that guy probably isn't even on drugs. That's just natural.

Speaker 8It's just crazy.

Speaker 10I think they train people to do this. I think, honestly, the IDF has a unit somewhere and they train people to come in and pretend to be nutty Christians. A, to mess up our spaces, and B, to defend Christians by association.

Speaker 7Well, you know that they did that within the UFO community. They had that guy, what was that, the CIA guy, Richard Doherty, would go into these areas and spread disinformation. I wouldn't be surprised if they're coming into our spaces to do the same thing.

@omdiscussions7They're doing the same thing with the Jake Lang guy to give white people and Christians a bad name. Very subversive.

Speaker 10He's Jewish, and he goes around pretending to be a Christian, going around and, like, he's basically stirring up trouble with Muslims. What's going to happen? Muslims are going to attack Christians because of it now.

Ian MalcolmYeah, he just comes into the room. Instead of the traditional LARP, it's like, hello, fellow racists. We're like, no, you're a Jew. Go away. Exactly. You're just a Jew trying to stir racism because it's all you guys have.

Speaker 10Our only hope is that he miscalculates the ability of his security group and goes too far.

@joann_marieThat's literally the only thing we hope for. Hello, fellow racist. I'm an antenna.

Speaker 7It's so weird.

@joann_marieYou're not supposed to have a gun.

Speaker 7What? I also feel like this is a real tragedy now.

Ian MalcolmSorry, who was it? Let's go. Well, I know Celtic, I was really enjoying some of the things Celtic Persian was sharing, but if not with him, then why don't, I think somebody might.

Speaker 15Yeah, I wanted to speak, if not, just really quick. Yeah, no, I just wanted to, it's funny. We're doing a space on the origins of the ADL and Mary Fagan. Very awesome topics. But with the ADL, I look on my feed today. And sure enough, they are upset that the Kanye West concert is coming to the Superdome. We start loading in for the show tomorrow, and I imagine there's going to be some type of protest or picketing or whatnot, so I'm just kind of ready to...

Ian MalcolmThomas, you were saying that we were loading, I don't mean to dox anything or anybody or any of that, but do you have some kind of inside information or purview or perspective? And I ask only because it might be really interesting to get your thoughts if the concert does go forward.

Speaker 15No, yeah, I do. I wouldn't say that I'm doxing anybody. It's working labor with Rhino Productions, and I'm doing the rigging. I will be dropping in steel for them to raise up the truss that then has the lighting and the sound equipment that goes in there.

Ian MalcolmYou're going to be helping to set up the stage that Kanye is going to be performing on?

Speaker 15Wow. Yeah, that's what I do. I do rigging and staging. So that picture of me, that's actually when I was setting up the show for the 4th of July at Mount Rushmore that just passed, the 250 event.

Speaker 8Yeah.

Speaker 15That's a little bit about me

Speaker 15Most likely beginning show call, so I will be there.

Ian MalcolmWhat does that mean?

Speaker 15Show call just means they select a few out of the group to be there just in the event they need something either lowered or something taken away. They'll have a certain amount of riggers and stagehands available for that.

Ian MalcolmWow. Okay, so if that happens, I'm kind of curious. What percent of the time would you prospectively kind of just be on call the way that a lifeguard would while he twirls his little whistle at the pool?

Speaker 15That's a funny way of putting it because that's exactly how it is. For the most part, nothing really happens, but we get there probably about four to five hours before a show. A show will happen, and then because it's a multi-night event, we'll end up probably lowering the sound delays. Maybe lowering the trust to working height and then call it a night and then come back and repeat and rinse and repeat.

Ian MalcolmJoAnn, we are going to have to figure out how from Thomas to get a live little interview from the show, either after or before or maybe in between the multi-day showings. I think it'd be very cool to get a behind-the-scenes perspective on Kanye West's show. Do you know any details about how many people... What does it cost to get a ticket?

Ian MalcolmWhat's kind of the expectations of it?

Speaker 15Well, as of right now, it's not sold out. It's not? Is this the one with like Globe? Yeah.

@joann_marieI've known people who have gone to those and they have gone to like a ton of concerts and they said that this is the best concert hand down. Like they are like diehard fans right now. They loved it. I want to see it. You're so lucky, Thomas.

Speaker 15It looks amazing. I haven't seen any plots. I'll end up seeing all that tomorrow. But I've just seen a lot of video. I saw how they put a sky in one of the last arenas. It just looked like they fogged out the whole arena. And then they panned some lasers and lighting through it. And they basically mapped the sky. So it looked like you were outdoors, but you were indoors.

Speaker 15So I'm pretty... Stoked on this to see how this all works out.

Ian MalcolmThomas, is he going to be performing, I'll just call it NHH to avoid the Mossad reporting. We'll get the six million Zyobots in here and then the space will shut down. You think he's going to perform that song or is that kind of off the table?

Speaker 15No, I hope so.

@joann_marieI don't think he has performed this in this one. He did it in China, I think, but not in... Let me check.

Ian MalcolmWait, are you telling me that 100,000 Chinese people were singing that song?

@joann_marieI think so. Let me check. Forget this, I'll check.

Ian MalcolmIf they were, for some reason that makes me chuckle a lot.

Speaker 15I do want to check the capacity of the Superdome because it's... I know for football games, it's like upward or like $125,000. But then, see, because of it's a concert, now we have the floor. So that adds to the numbers. So I'm not sure. And if I go and look on my internet, it'll cut out the feed here talking to y'all, unfortunately.

Speaker 15But yeah, it's going to be fun. I'll try to film as much as I can. I do have my Ray-Ban metas. So I'll be walking around inconspicuously. He did sing it in China.

@joann_marieI posted the video in the... Oh, Jumbotron! But I don't think he's singing it in this little tour.

Speaker 15I will say this. Even though there's a big Jewish population, I'm just going to say it outright, that runs New Orleans, there's also a big Palestinian group here that's totally waking people up. They're out. interviewing people on Bourbon Street and around the French Quarter, locals to tourists. Some negative, some are eye-opening where a lot of the information they share they had no idea.

Speaker 15But it's pretty cool that we do have a movement down here and there's a lot of people that are waking up to the bullshit. So, I'll just land it here.

Ian MalcolmWell, Thomas, I'm very excited. If we could figure out how to make that happen, JoAnn, that would be very cool to get some behind-the-scenes kind of access. And maybe, Thomas, what we could figure out is a time to just walk through, again, your experience. I assume with all the noise and all the chaos, probably not very easy to do that in real time.

Ian MalcolmBut we'll set up a group chat and try to figure out how we can make that work for everybody.

Speaker 5Awesome.

@joann_marieI'll set her up right now. Yeah. Thank you, Thomas. All right, Mr. Frank, go for it.

Speaker 9Mr. Frank. I'm sorry. I thought I already expressed what I was thinking.

Speaker 9I'm going to pass the mic to whoever else is there.

@joann_marieAll right. Thank you, Frank. And if anyone wants to come up and say hi, you guys are welcome to do so. And again, please repost the space. Follow Ian and Bryce and Rabbi and everybody on the panel. And thank you so much for being here.

Ian MalcolmYeah, and really quickly, why don't we check in with, why don't we do as follows? And, you know, I wanted to make sure that we kept this space pretty focused, free if we could, especially when Mary was here, of some of the usual silliness. And kind of compact because perhaps there will be people that listen back to this for kind of academic purposes.

Ian MalcolmBut that being said, what I would love to do is to go around the room if there's anybody that does want to share any final thoughts. Perhaps either Lindsey from Rabbi, from Mr. Frank. If not... What I would like to do is to go up to Bryce and maybe get some thoughts on some of the future spaces that I know he's been suggesting.

Ian MalcolmWe could use that as kind of a teaser trailer. And then maybe what we could do is go to Rabbi [guest] for some of his thoughts on kind of the timeline, right? We're a little over 100 years. I think it's 112 since this all took place, right? And where are we today? Where could we be, whether it's 13 years from now or 113 years from now?

Ian MalcolmAnd what could the future look like if we do things in a better way? But why don't we go to Lindsey if she wants to jump in really quickly, and we'll check in with Mr. Celtic and OMD, and then we'll go up to Bryce and Rabbi.

@phagankeanYeah, thank y'all for having me up tonight. Remember that love is the answer, and try to show everyone around you love, even if you hate them. Kindness and love, and the world will be a better place. Love y'all.

Ian MalcolmWe're much appreciated, Lindsey, and always in line with that, right? Share positivity, try to make the world a better place, try to make people laugh and smile, right? Put out good energy, and what goes around comes around. I really believe that. Celtic, any thoughts on anything else here in the space?

Speaker 13Yeah, there was something. I don't know if you guys have come across this before, but maybe if you want to do a space on it, I'd be happy to participate. And if I can find the documentary, I'll DM it to you and Joanne. In Galveston, Texas, in about 1900, there was a major hurricane that struck and basically wiped out the whole area, and it was tied to kind of a Jewish plot to take over the city.

Speaker 13I don't know if you guys have come across this before, but apparently Galveston Island was one of the places that was proposed to have a Jewish state. So there was this hurricane that was coming in. It was a horrible hurricane, and there was this...

Speaker 13I have never heard that, but it kind of sounds like some of the fires that we're seeing down in...

Ian MalcolmThank you. Thank you.

@joann_marieThe only reason why I've heard of Galveston, Texas is because in that documentary with Robert Thorst, I don't know if you guys have seen it, that Jew who killed a couple of people and then got caught, he was dressed as a woman and... He was a billionaire. Have you guys seen this?

Speaker 13Yeah, you're talking about the Durst guy, Robert Durst or something. The Durst organization, they own a huge amount of real estate in New York.

@joann_marieIt's such a crazy documentary, yeah. He was in Galveston dressed as a woman pretending to be mute and then he killed his neighbor and cut it into pieces and... Well, that's one of the things, but yeah, Galveston seems pretty crazy. Ian, you need to watch it. It's a crazy documentary.

Ian MalcolmI'm down for it. And Celtic, I think we're also in early, speaking of future spaces, I know we've got some with Bryce, and then I know we've got, if I'm not mistaken, a time carved out to walk through some of the National Socialist kind of future technology that's a little bit somewhat conspiratorial, but I know it's something that you've looked into a whole bunch.

Speaker 13Yeah, I Absolutely, I'm down. I know, I think you said it's on the 2nd of September. We're going to do that space, so I'm looking forward to it.

Ian MalcolmLet's go! It'll be especially interesting. We were going to do that one with, is it Inanna? JoAnn, did I pronounce that right?

Ian MalcolmI'm sorry, you cut out there.

Speaker 13I didn't hear what you said.

@joann_marieYes, Dr. Heather Lynn, Inanna Believe. Sorry, I was sending... Inanna Believe, there you go.

Ian MalcolmYeah, Dr. Heather. And unfortunately, she had the flu on Monday, so we weren't able to do the space. She was going to talk about the spear, and we're still going to do it. We're going to get it rescheduled. The Spear of Destiny, which apparently the National Socialists were looking for, along with kind of all these ancient artifacts.

Ian MalcolmAnd so, yeah, that's really many artifacts. Yeah.

Ian MalcolmSo we're going to, we're going to have to do that, JoAnn. I'm really excited for that.

@joann_marieMe too. I'm going to give you the date for that one in just one second. It's in September 28th. It's going to be awesome. Bryce is going to talk about the National Socialist base under Antarctica as well. Bryce, do you want to give us a little update on that?

Ian MalcolmAnd real quick, JoAnn, is Celtic, we have him for the second, is that right?

@joann_marieLet me check again.

Ian MalcolmAnd Dr. Heather is, I think, we're scheduled for the end of September.

@joann_marieI have three months. Hold on. We have Celtic. Wait, what is? Okay, hold on. I'm so sorry.

@joann_marieIt's, oh my God, September.

@joann_marieWhat is it? Oh, yeah, yeah, we have September the 2nd with Celtic.

Ian MalcolmAll right, so we'll do the future tech of the National Socialist, which I'm going to be really curious. I've heard there's an account, Space Cat, that I heard talking about UFO or kind of anti-gravity propulsion, all kinds of things. And Celtic, I don't know if that's going to be in there, but I've heard all kinds of theories.

Ian MalcolmSo going to be very curious about that. And I think, Bryce, was it you who posted about the Antarctica base of the National Socialists?

Speaker 7Yes, base 211.

Ian MalcolmYep, base 211. Let's go.

Speaker 7Yep. We're going to be discussing that. Fascinating. You guys should really, really be there for that. In 1938, Adolf Hitler sends out

Speaker 7A ship called the MS Schwabenland. And basically its mission is to go to Antarctica and set up a base of operations for the Nazis there in Antarctica. And the question becomes, is the base there? Are the Nazis involved in flying saucers? And is that actual Nazi technology, not aliens, but Nazi technology? And who are the Aryans?

Speaker 7It'll be a very fantastic, a very great space. It's one of my favorite topics. Space 211 is just one of those stories throughout history that just gets better and better and better as time goes on. I'll debunk a few things. We'll dive in on a few things. But it's such a great story.

@joann_marieI can't wait. And Bryce is on... Hold on. Yeah, it's on the 29th.

Ian MalcolmThis will be up September. So we've got, so Dr. So am I right on, so Celtic, we've got September 2nd, Dr. Lynn on the 28th, and then the 29th is with Bryce. Is that right?

@joann_marieYes.

Ian MalcolmLet's go. Okay.

@joann_marieLet's go.

Ian MalcolmWe need to have the two of them. So we'll do the Spear of Destiny and the National Socialist, and then the very next day we'll do Bryce and the idea of the Antarctic bases with the National Socialist, and we'll do as a precursor Celtic on the... Second, which I just want to I want to bring attention, everybody, to the detail and the time that JoAnn takes trying to keep track of all of this.

Ian MalcolmShe has spaces scheduled all the way until the middle of like October at this point. I don't know how she keeps it all so organized, but the two of us must be in, I don't even know, a hundred or so group chats at this point. And every single person that we try to host these with, we try to make sure that we keep things organized.

Ian MalcolmRunning like a Swiss watch. And JoAnn, you're just such a superstar for everything.

@joann_marieI know. I love doing it. And you're amazing, Ian. So it's my absolute pleasure. It's awesome. I love it. And OMG, welcome. Go for it.

@omdiscussions7Yes, okay. Well, I'll be pretty quick. So... Honestly, I don't know if y'all have done a space on any of this yet. One thing for me that was kind of like a rude awakening once I started to find things out now, I don't even know what's real anymore. You know, there's so much coming out now. But a big thing for me that I'd like to see people talk more about is the Barbara Spector interview where she's talking about in the video the plan to use mass migration to commit cultural genocide of Europe.

@omdiscussions7But in addition to that, you know, since then I've seen, I mean, multiple videos of rabbis specifically saying the same thing and going into even further detail of a plan to use, first of all, one of them says mass migration to commit cultural genocide of white people, which I think is pretty fucked up to, you know, so you're going to commit genocide of any group of people, but...

@omdiscussions7Then they go into detail, these other rabbis talking about, on video, talking about instigating fighting between Christians and Muslims so that we wipe each other out. So this is kind of like, when I started seeing these things, I was like, what the fuck is going on, bro? And then, you know, one of the other things I had initially seen was with this, I think his name is Noel Ignatiev.

@omdiscussions7Who was talking about, you know, wiping out white people as well. So anyways, that was kind of like a rude awakening for me to see those type of things. I'd like to see more covered. You know, there's many, you know, well-known Jewish people like Dave Smith. I think his name is Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky that talk about in depth about Palestine.

@omdiscussions7I do think that's an important issue. However, I would like to see a lot of the Jewish people as well come out and talk about and also condemn I think the clergy plan is irrefutably

Ian MalcolmDemonstrably happening, right? I don't see how anybody can look around at mass migration, the places that these people are coming from, the places that they are being poured into, and not note that there's certainly, there is a desire to mix up everything. And that is not exclusively white nations. Even in Japan now, they're trying to flood it with Africans, right?

Ian MalcolmBut even if we are... to include that and say it's not just the white Europeans, which in my opinion, in Europe and the United States are clearly the target of this, right? And we know that that's the case, not only because of, again, where these people are coming from, right? Mass migration to the United States is not from white European nations.

Ian MalcolmIt's from essentially South and Central America and Africa, right? They're obviously trying to change the demographics racially Thank you for joining us.

Ian MalcolmThat's not me being a bigot. That's just the truth of the matter, right? You also look at their prison systems and it is overwhelmed with literal migrants. Like, think about this. 20 or 30 years ago, that country, you would have gone to the prison. You would have been like, oh, look, it's the lowest IQ of the people from this country.

Ian MalcolmAnd now you go there and it is 30, 40, 50, 60% of the inmates. They're not white people, right? In one of the whitest parts of the entire world. And so you look at these things and you're like, okay, So it's obviously happening. It is obviously being sponsored. We look at the groups that are sponsoring it. It's a massive chunk of Jewish NGOs.

Ian MalcolmIt doesn't mean that they're all Jewish, but a massive chunk of them, of course, are. And then you look at the politicians that are allowing it. And it doesn't matter if you look at the United States, where you've got Mayorkas, who opened the border to 25 million people. That's the number that floats around. Some say 15.

Ian MalcolmSome say as much as 30. 20 sounds about right in the middle. We'll go. 20 million people. That is effectively something like, what, 7% of the country? Right? Because you got, what, 320 million, 350 million people to bring in 20 million more. Think about what that means. If you get a, even if it's a 5%, 6% increase in the number of people living in all the metropolitan areas, what happens to housing prices?

Ian MalcolmWhat happens to your schools, your roads, all of your infrastructure, your hospitals? Wow. Oh, I don't know. Maybe they all get worse and everything gets more expensive, which is exactly what is happening while at the same time, all of the slave labor jobs, things like Uber, driving around in, let's say, any kind of transportation role, any of the sanitation roles, any of those things that you can do as a low-skilled worker where you just need lots of people.

Ian MalcolmAll of those roles are getting now filled by people that, in many cases, shouldn't even be here. So all of the wages go down, cost of living goes up. It is an economic attack. It is a cultural attack. Because at every turn, we have mass media that is demonstrably anti-white. It is humiliating white people by having the whites as always the villain.

Ian MalcolmOr maybe they're the gay people. Or maybe they're the fool. But they're rarely the strong, courageous person that's walking through either the commercials, the advertisements, or even the movies. And it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have black heroes. I'm all for that. Once upon a time, Will Smith was a wonderful example of a Hollywood role model.

Ian MalcolmHe was charismatic and entertaining, right? He was on a show, The Fresh Prince, that it had him as the comedy and it had, what is it, Carlton Banks. What was Carlton? He was the nerdy guy who wanted to go to Princeton. He wore cardigans. He listened to Tom Jones and danced around with a giant smile on his face as Will would kind of mock him for being a little bit nerdy.

Ian MalcolmBut he loved them and he gave them hugs and he went to his uncle Phil and they lived in a nuclear family. That was all good, healthy stuff. We should have black entertainment, obviously. But when 30, 40, 50 percent, when James Bond is going to be played by a black guy, when the Little Mermaid has to be a black woman, something is obviously wrong here.

Ian MalcolmThis is demoralization. They are trying to offend you and depress you and make you feel hopeless. So that you just roll over and say, well, I guess my country is just changing. But when it changes and when all of Western Europe goes with it, what happens to white people? They disappear. They literally are gone. They vanish from the earth.

Ian MalcolmAnd I know that that sounds offensive to some people, but it's literally just true, right? If you had, let's think about this. Let's think of all the nations as being different breeds of dogs. If you have golden retrievers, let's just treat them as the Nordics because maybe the color seems fitting. If you've got golden retrievers and then you just flood this country with millions of dark-colored pit bulls, well, how long is it before you don't have golden retrievers anymore?

Ian MalcolmEver. They are gone. Because every one of them is now mixed in with this other thing. And some people smile at that. And those who do, you are sick. I don't care if you're the Jewish supremacist that want this as part of the clergy plan, or if you're one of the other groups that you're just for some sick satisfaction, you enjoy the fact that white people are getting attacked and assaulted.

Ian MalcolmAnd I find it really weird when there are other people who find that amusing. And then you go into an FBA space once upon a time when people like cultivating would try and invite me in there to say, hey, can you tell these black people that maybe Jews are the problem? And you'd have black people that would be cheering on.

Ian MalcolmThank you very much.

Ian MalcolmAnd this doesn't mean that other people are bad because guess what? A lot of incredible inventions came out of the Middle East. A lot of unbelievable spirituality and intellect came out of the Asian markets, in particular out of China, out of Japan. And I think there's a lot to romanticize about. For example, the samurai, seppuku.

Ian MalcolmThink about this. Think about a group of people who would be so ashamed if they violated the honor of their family's code of conduct that they would literally cut open their stomach, to kill themselves so that hopefully their family wouldn't feel the shame that they had bestowed upon them. That is, that's a, that's unbelievable.

Ian MalcolmToday we live in a society where they literally just flee and go to Israel and they don't have to face any shame for anything. The people that are in charge, right? The Japanese samurai would have looked at those people and thought, well, forever they're going to be damned and their family will go with them because they have no honor.

Ian MalcolmSo there's a lot to romanticize about all kinds of people. And I got a lot of respect for all different civilizations and cultures. But the ones that are cherishing the idea of the downfall of the Western Christian white world. Well, I'm sorry for anybody who went and saw the Odyssey. Helen of Troy was not black, right?

Ian MalcolmShe might have had dark hair. There's actually an argument to be made there. But she certainly wasn't a dark African, right? You didn't have a trans person that was fighting and winning the war for the Trojans. This is all crazy. We live in a world that literally hates white Christian culture. That is the society that we are all swimming in.

Ian MalcolmThe clergy plan is irrefutably taking place. If you cheer it on, you're a psychopath, or maybe you're just so insecure in what you are that you hate the other, and then therefore you cheer its demise. This is lunacy. So we basically have a group of people that hate the very thing that has powered in a lot of ways a lot of the great discoveries of the last three or four or five hundred years of humanity, right?

Ian MalcolmWe know who that is. It's the Jewish supremacist. We then have some insecure people that seem to be perfectly fine with that because they just have an animus against those people. Why? Perhaps because of IQ or intellect or competence or maybe they just don't know any better. Is the pit bull that you put in with the golden retrievers, is the pit bull inherently evil or is it just different?

Ian MalcolmDoes it have different degrees, for example, of testosterone, of bite force? Does it maybe as a result have a lower IQ? And if so, can you teach the golden retriever to be a much better pet with your family than you can the pit bull? Absolutely. And if you don't agree with me, go and look up the breed of dogs that send the most people to the hospitals every year.

Ian MalcolmIt is 100% pitbulls. It is a genetic predisposition. So what does this basically mean? Not only do you have the Jewish supremacists, you then have the lunatics that cheer it on. Those lunatics, in many cases, they don't know how to build a high-trust society. You can make the argument maybe they never could do it. Perhaps there's something there that is genetic.

Ian MalcolmMaybe it's cultural. Maybe it's spiritual. Maybe it's I don't know. But the one thing that I do know is that when you get rid of... All of the people who have a really long line of history of making the world better, it's probably going to make things worse for everybody. And that is what the Jewish supremacists want. That was what was in the Communist Manifesto.

Ian MalcolmThat is what Marx and Engels talked about when they said, this is from them, this isn't Adolf Hitler, this was when Engels said, we need a revolutionary holocaust or a burnt offering. That would do what? It would take all of the parts of humanity that were not ready for communism and it would either break it down or lift it up.

Ian MalcolmSo we would have everybody be the same. What does that sound like? It sounds like the clergy plan where everybody is the same and nobody has any roots. They have any heritage. Nobody has any history. Nobody has any statues or religions or gods. They are just nebulous, rootless people. What does that sound like? It's the Jewish supremacists because they have always been the merchants going from place to place, taking anything, buying something from here, taking it somewhere else and selling it to somebody else for more than it was worth because the person they sold it to didn't know any better.

Ian MalcolmThe person they bought it from didn't know that that was going to happen, right? And those people on either end of that equation, what were they probably doing? They were probably working diligently to produce the very thing that the other people just transferred from one place to another and made a lot of money in the process.

Ian MalcolmThose very people then did the exact same thing, except literally just with money, whether it was fiat currency or other renditions of it. They didn't create anything. It is coin clipping while everybody else was actually out and doing all of the things to build the farms, to man the farms, to get the food or the vegetables or the milk.

Ian MalcolmFrom the Farm. All of the productivity. And then along comes this guy. Hey, I bought this thing for $5. You want to buy it for $6 million? Because I'm awesome. Let me lie to you and tell you that it's going to make you way better. Right? What else is along those lines? Oh, by the way, final little thought. The Odyssey.

Ian MalcolmFor anybody out there, it's an interesting idea. Because in that movie, the concept is Zeus's Law. And that basically suggests that when you enter somebody's home, what do you do? You respect that person regardless of their status or their station in life. Why? Because the gods might come down and they might pose as the lowliest of all of us.

Ian MalcolmThere's something really beautiful about that. Something very Christian. It's not just love your neighbor. It's love your poorest neighbor. Love the neighbor who looks the most homely. They might not have anything going for them. Treat them as you would treat yourself, as Christ said, right? And so in that Zeus's law, it's very curious because what Christopher Nolan did is to take the idea of the Trojan horse, right?

Ian MalcolmNot only are you going into somebody's home, you're giving it a gift to somebody. And inside the gift is a booby trap that's going to destroy the entirety of the society. Now, isn't it kind of curious? Because if you think about it, well, what does that sound like along the lines of the clergy plan? To me, it sounds a whole lot like diversity is our strength.

Ian MalcolmThat was the Trojan horse. Let's bring in millions of people and then just let them run rampant in our once beautiful city. They will destroy everything. And then when it's done, Agamemnon gets to stroll in. Look at my new place that I've taken over. And the curious part is not only do they destroy the very society that they then get to rule over the ashes of, but they piss on Zeus's law.

Ian MalcolmSo yes, I will continue talking about those other people that say the clergy plan is not happening. In particular, those that talk about Jewish supremacy or the Jewish question or Jewish power. If they can talk about all these things and note AIPAC and Hollywood and the media and the academic institutions and mass migration, and then they're like, no, I think you're a white supremacist for noting that mass migration is destroying your civilizations.

Ian MalcolmWell, to anybody that takes that position, you are either so hateful

Ian MalcolmBut just because it's happening in Japan doesn't mean it's not also a blatant attack on white civilization. It's not white supremacy or white privilege or racism to try and reject that. Because just like with the Trojan horse...

Ian MalcolmThat'd be like suggesting that this party, oh, the people inside rejecting that gift that's actually going to destroy their society, they're a bigot. No! It's sane to defend the thing that you love. And anybody that says otherwise, again, is a cuck or a shill or they're just clueless. So I apologize for the rant, but OMD, I hope that was helpful.

@omdiscussions7It was on point. Thank you.

Ian MalcolmYeah, we talk about that. Some people don't. I don't know why. It's either ignorance or arrogance or animus, I suppose, to stick with vowels at the top of the words. Mr. Nietzsche and Debby, a pleasure to have both of you. David, I'm curious for your thoughts. Am I off base or is the clergy plan as evident as a snowball to the face on a cold day?

@nietzsche258918Yes, and as uncomfortable.

@nietzsche258918When you mention a high trust society, I think, well, how would you know? The moment you walked into a high trust society, how would you know that exists? Do you see the trust in the air? What is the evidence? The evidence of a high trust society is sort of the trust that's part of the high trust society. It's like gravity.

@nietzsche258918It's invisible, but you can see its effect. But then just imagine, imagine if you have a group of people, And I describe this, of course, as out-group psychopathy on the part of Jewish supremacists that enter into a high-trust society and they wait on the steep path of human accomplishment. They wait like vultures, hoping that you'll dash beneath their wings.

@nietzsche258918And those things happen. We have ups and downs. We have vicissitudes. We have problems. I mean, the Bolshevik Revolution, for instance, was started on a temporary famine that was... That very quickly was assuaged and people were like, oh, we're fine. But they had already taken over and gotten control of all the choke points at this time.

@nietzsche258918So what are we talking about here? We're talking about people that enter into a high trust society. And like you said, figure out ways to duracinate it like the clergy plan. But it's really just about opportunity on behalf of those who don't share this high trust society. They don't like us. They really don't like us. And when you say, I'm in a high-trust society, and that trust within the high-trust society is what makes them suckers.

@nietzsche258918That is the opportunity. In other words, your goodness is their opportunity. And you're counted, by the way, now that we know that it's Jewish supremacy. Your participation today is simply to not acknowledge it. Now they're counting on you just not saying, oh, I get the game now. We have love. solicitude, kindness towards one another, and you prey upon that.

@nietzsche258918That is the opportunity for you. So I think the clergy plan is just one example of that, but we can go on and on and on. Whatever it is, you know, when we talk about them running, you know, 90% of the porn industry, we've heard them in your various spaces say, well, it's your fault. It's the people's fault that consume it, as though you had no agency.

@nietzsche258918You're saying, you're admitting to everyone that you're predating upon them. When you say, well, when someone we're after runs into a school, it's the children's fault that they're still in that school and so we mass exterminate them. Take them at their word. They're saying in every instance what it is that makes innocence or high trust, what it is is something that we predate upon.

@nietzsche258918It is a markup opportunity for us. Now, what relationship are we describing? A parasitic relationship. So yeah, I mean, the clergy plan is the worst of it all because... We're talking about the Christian ethos of kindness. I'm tired of people saying, our problem is suicidal empathy. Actually, that's not true. If Jewish supremacists didn't live in our society, we'd just be fine, right?

@nietzsche258918But they're not saying, oh, well, this is organic. You're just being nice to people. You're opening our border. No, no, no, no, no. They're the ones that are running our education system convincing us, you're evil if you do not do this. Think about it. These people don't do it. Look at Israel. They don't do that. They mass exterminate.

@nietzsche258918They have no tolerance whatsoever. So clearly hypocrisy is a feeble word to describe this. So we're not suffering from suicidal empathy. We're suffering from Jewish supremacy. I'm sorry, but that is it. And what does Jewish supremacy does? By guilt. By the derationation of our moral principles, by divide and conquer, by predating upon what makes us a high trust society, they prosper, they succeed, and by what?

@nietzsche258918By our expense.

Ian MalcolmDavid, that's so well stated. And something very interesting to add there, so you mentioned Jewish supremacy. And somebody sent me a note that was basically saying that Jewish supremacy is an anti-Semitic trope that has over a hundred years. And I bring this up because Jewish supremacy, obviously a term that you have popularized, right?

Ian MalcolmYou've brought this into the public forum. And I guess I haven't really shared this publicly. I send David probably once a week at least I send him clips or posts from massive handles, including Nick Fuentes. David Miller was one today, who I think has a quarter million or so followers. He's a very, maybe, I don't know if well-regarded, but very well-known, let's say, kind of social media commentator.

Ian MalcolmHe made a post that was talking three times. He mentioned Jewish supremacy, right?

@nietzsche258918He Beetlejuiced it, yeah. I feel like he listens to our spaces because for everyone else in the room, when someone tries to... To shame you into reticence when you say it, I always say it three or four times afterwards, you know, I just do it. I'm like, well, oh, I see, you don't want me to talk about Jewish supremacy.

@nietzsche258918I mean, Jewish supremacy is a problem, but I can see why Jewish supremacy would be something you don't want me to mention. I mean, why would, I disagree with you. I think that if Jewish supremacy is a problem, you just keep saying it, you know, because obviously, you know, the argument, what argument is there against supremacy, right?

@nietzsche258918And so when they say it's anti-Semitic, thank you for giving yourself away. Thank you for saying, well, that's part of us, right? I mean, when Joe Biden said, or the Biden administration said, it's racist to use the term looter, they're saying that all black people are racist. Now, that was a really racist thing to say.

@nietzsche258918But if black people themselves said, hey, don't use the word looter, it's racist, which I don't think black people say that, our black brothers and sisters would not say that. But if they did say it, they'd be saying, they'd be owning the looting, right? The lady that doth protest too much, ergo the Jewish supremacist, is doing when they say it's anti-Semitic to say Jewish supremacist.

@nietzsche258918They're like, you just admitted to it, buddy. I mean, bad strategy. Who's your PR rep? Maybe you should rethink this whole thing, but thank you. Cat's out of the bag. out of Pandora's box. Thank you very much. And now you've just incentivized this. Well, I guess insisted upon for any moral person that's a third party observer to keep saying Jewish supremacy a problem.

@nietzsche258918Look, they just admitted it.

Ian MalcolmYeah, no, absolutely. And it was, so David has brought that back in and it's a phrase, it's just, it's perfect because to his point, right, we are not sitting here and saying all Jews anything, all the Jews are bad, all the, no. We're saying the supremacist system that is prioritizing their interests above everybody else that is clearly being done because they believe themselves fundamentally superior to everybody else.

Ian MalcolmI know that sounds crazy, but then we see emails where they literally suggest that, right? And you come to this conclusion, okay, it's reasonable to be in opposition to this. But so I went in, David, and I was asking Grok, which may be a bad resource to try and use, but just for fun. I was asking about the origin of Jewish supremacy.

Ian MalcolmYou're not going to believe it, David. In addition to Henry Ford, who spoke of Jewish supremacy in The International Jew, which I was like, you don't say. It apparently has gone back 100 years, at least prior to Henry Ford, right? So not just this issue of the Jews, and we've got all the way back to Tacitus and Rome and all kinds of other great societies that...

Ian Malcolmcame to similar conclusions, including the, I don't know, this guy that was on a cross. We talked about a certain synagogue, right? So this has been going on for 2000 plus years, but not just with say the Jews or Jewish or Judea, nope, Jewish supremacy. Henry Ford wrote specifically about how there was an effort to put the Jewish people above everybody else, that it was a global agenda, a global plan.

Ian MalcolmThat was in the books that were put out, or the pamphlets, we should say, put out by Henry Ford and sponsored by him as the international Jews. Unbelievable. They were even using that term, David, a hundred years ago.

@nietzsche258918And I would say, and it doesn't surprise me, and so that is the only term that we should settle on today. And I would say, because I'm always inviting with that term, since we're judging, we're hating the sin and not the sinner, and inviting our Jewish brothers and sisters that want to turn away, From that awful ideology to join them, I would say to them, because I know it makes them uncomfortable, I am not your best friend.

@nietzsche258918I am your only friend. Because the people that deign to represent you are sowing the seeds of hatred for you and your children, and you should absolutely resent them for doing so. Don't you want to join the fraternity and sorority of mankind? Don't you want to join?

@nietzsche258918They say, we are the people of Marconi. We are people of goodness and kindness. I think Mother Teresa was Italian, like all sorts of wonderful people. And you're going to compare, no, no, we renounce this. We reject this, of course. And so to our Jewish brothers and sisters that hear us use that term, that is a straight way.

@nietzsche258918That's not a dog whistle to hate. That's a dog whistle to love.

@nietzsche258918PowerStructure, which engages in this barbarism, and no one is going to like you. Nothing you can do about that. No media apparatus, no propaganda is ever going to stop people from secretly, absolutely hating the existence of people who torment them, people who credit upon their children, people who enslave them, people who rob them by the tune of trillions every year.

@nietzsche258918No, to our Jewish brothers and sisters, come in from the cold, join the fraternity of humanity, and renounce

Ian MalcolmI love David Nietzsche. And it's why, you know, David, one of the things that I think you do, and then we'll go to Debbie that is so powerful, is your delivery is both so, it's empathetic, it is compassionate, and it is loving, and at the same time, it is blunt and forceful, right? You're like... Come in from the cold.

Ian MalcolmWe want to help you. If you're not going to, then we are going to put up a giant wall and we are going to deal with this problem, right? It's very, very black and white in that regard. And it's just, are you good or are you bad? And when you have morality mixed with those two things, right? Anybody and everybody can recognize the error of their ways, can change course.

Ian MalcolmLet's encourage that, right? And that takes a very loving heart and you always represent that. But at the same time, right, it's Christ and sell your cloak and buy a sword and a shield. And I really do feel like we're, you know, Arthur's round table with all their heirs and their baggage and all this other kind of the Guinevere and that whole debacle, right?

Ian MalcolmBut we're like, we're going to go make the world a better place as best we can. And there's something that's so... So romantic about that concept. And so, David, I'm not sure if you have any thoughts on that, especially the allegory there, but I just always love your delivery so much, my friend.

@nietzsche258918And, you know, I think that it's something that resonates with not just Americans, but with everyone around the world. I think the future is a lot brighter than people think, but there is no way that we can accomplish what is obviously possible for the future. If we don't renounce any... And by the way, there's a lot of work to be done around statism and the way that people, the criminals and thieves of all stripes, have gotten control of states and are basically just parasitizing us.

@nietzsche258918But if we don't renounce supremacy, that is the first step to a brighter future. And I think everybody knows it. And by the way, it's happening. The Great Awakening is happening. It's really a wonderful thing to see. And let's not forget... We're going to see people come out of the woodwork, irrespective, even again, some of our Jewish presence issues that we've never seen before.

@nietzsche258918People are emboldened by a movement that's based on righteousness, goodness, kindness, solicitude for humanity. This is why I don't think that our emancipation and our freedom is merely our right, for instance, as Americans, but I think it's our destiny as a species, and anybody that is on the opposite side of that is on the wrong side of history.

Ian MalcolmAbsolutely. And it is it's for anybody listening. I hope there's one person in here that is new to some of these words or to David. If so, please make sure to give him a follow. He's just one of the absolute best on here. Right. But but it's such it's such a powerful concept because when you think about it and Debbie to throw this one to you.

Ian MalcolmOne of the reasons I'm so convinced that we're going to win is because what we're doing, again, to use that term, it is romantic, right? We are standing up for the little guy that doesn't have any power, and yet everybody stands with us in the end because we're the group that is standing up, not just for the interest of the majority, but of 99% of people that are going to get basically eradicated and destroyed economically, financially, maybe literally.

Ian MalcolmIf this cabal of pedophilic, psychopathic, genocidal interests have their way. And so, Debbie, I keep saying that we've already won. I'm curious, Debbie, am I being overly optimistic?

@joann_marieDebbie?

@joann_marieDebbie? I think she's glitching.

Ian MalcolmAll right, let's take the same question and let's throw it to Serenity instead. And then we will go to Amira.

@redroadmasiHi, Ian, JoAnn, everybody. I was writing something down. What was the question?

Ian MalcolmWell, we'll come up with a new one. Serenity, what is the best thing that has happened in your world of late? You don't have to dox yourself, but what have you noticed in the world that makes you happy?

@redroadmasiUh... That there's a huge appreciation of art, individual art, and the NFT racket basically didn't take over one's interest in buying personal artwork.

Ian MalcolmWell, there you have it, folks.

@redroadmasiThe monkey artwork and the NFTs. That's a big thing. I have nothing against NFTs. Don't get me wrong at all. I don't.

@joann_marieWhy don't they even exist? I don't like NFTs.

@redroadmasiWell, it started a while ago.

@joann_marieI know why, but I still think it's the dumbest thing ever.

@redroadmasiYeah, it's, you know, look, everyone is an artist inside, right? So maybe that brings joy to some people that have not had maybe some schooling, some education in it, and or they don't believe in themselves. So maybe it makes them feel good. And you know what? If the art, even if it's an NFT, makes somebody feel really good, good.

@redroadmasiBut it didn't take over art in general. I just did a...

@redroadmasiWhich is awesome. But you know what? Any kind of creativity anybody does, even if you don't know how to draw or paint, just do something. Everybody has that innately in their soul, the creative process. So even if you think it looks like a stick figure, who gives a shit? It is an artistic stick figure for you. You know what I mean?

@redroadmasiAnd you should not be afraid to do art, ever.

@redroadmasiWhen the blame game starts, that's when it becomes, you know, on that level, but on a hateful level, though. You know, like, you can tell that the hate isn't even for the person. That's the thing. You know that this has to do with this person and their life, something that's going on in their life. And I feel sad for them, to tell you the truth.

@redroadmasiAs long as they don't bother me, I do what you want to do. It hasn't personally affected me, ever, really. I mean, maybe a couple times I could tell there was a little tinge of something. But that's on them, you know what I mean? No sweat off my back, you know? But anyway, as far as Israel and their plan, I will say that, I don't know, some solutions maybe going forward...

@redroadmasiThey should detail where the money is coming from, including the board members, and also including if the board members are representing a PAC or an individual. And it could go even deeper than that, but at least a little something. And I mean, there's many other things that I could put, but I've just thrown out two. And as far as the illegal immigrants, I myself, personally, I think it was out of control.

@redroadmasiI'm sorry if you're like an illegal immigrant that came over. You have to understand. You can see that people in this country are suffering. Food, work, and all these things. So when you come in and you get all this shit for free, it's not right. That kind of extra help was supposed to be for Americans. So please understand that.

@redroadmasiSo don't come over and say, oh, I can't eat and all this stuff. Because you know that we're going to feed you. But it's messed up that you game the system to do that shit. It's really messed up. And you cannot be shocked at the animosity that the Americans are feeling. So that's not fair. So don't call Americans that don't want you here racist.

@redroadmasiIt's a lot deeper than that. Really. I don't call for any violence, though, with the thing with ICE, but anyway. I think that anybody who comes in that wants to become an American, that goes through the process, has to also have a caveat to that saying that you have to, have to, integrate into the American society. Like, you have to learn English, period.

@redroadmasiYou know, you have to behave in a certain way. And you can't, you know, if you come from a place, I'm just saying, I'm trying not to put somebody down, but if you're coming from a place where they throw garbage all over the place and they make a mess and they don't want to work, you can't do that here. You have to go back to where you came from if you want to be like that.

@redroadmasiSo that's what I'm saying. It probably sounds like authoritarian or something like that. But those are just some things that are up in my head. But Ian, you are not even close to that. Last night, I was in a space last night. This guy was going crazy. It was a funny space, though. And he was going crazy. He was talking about the brown people and the black people.

@redroadmasiSo I got on and I said, listen, dude, stop making up shit and just say you don't like brown and black people. Let's just get to the guttural level. You're giving all this stuff on top of it. Just say it. You have the right. If you don't like brown and black people, just say it. Don't make up shit. You know what I mean?

@redroadmasiWho cares? As long as you don't bother these people. You know what I mean? I feel like that. As long as a person, and this is probably very judgmental, but I feel like if a person doesn't like somebody, just fucking leave them alone. You don't have to now go to the person in their face and act and say that you don't like them.

@redroadmasiI mean, what do you expect? Just mind your business. That's what half of the country should do. Mind your fucking business. Excuse my language. That's a trade on your own business. No, much appreciated.

Ian MalcolmVery well stated. Let's see if Debby's mic is working.

@joann_marieNo, it's still not working, Debby.

@joann_marieOkay, I'm just going to show people while I recycle you. I am Mrs. Nietzsche and Mr. Nietzsche are going to adopt me. They don't know and I'm kind of like forcing them. And Bella made a cute little picture that I posted in the nest and it's awesome. I have like pigtails to trick them into that I'm a child. And it's hilarious.

@joann_marieSo guys, please show Bella some love and also David Nietzsche and Mrs. Nietzsche.

@nietzsche258918You're a step closer with the Scooby-Doo bus. My wife just loved that. The moment you sent that out, I sent that over because we actually... She has a soft spot for Scooby-Doo.

@joann_marieIt's so good. I'm going to post it again so that people see it.

@nietzsche258918When we solve things like Scooby-Doo, are we going to do the thing that they do where they explain it all at the end?

@joann_marieI love it. I used to have one that danced. My dad still has it in my room. Whenever I go to his house, I'm going to show you. All right. Wait, is Debby? No, Debby's not there. All right. Rabbi, go for it.

Speaker 10Hey, guys. It's been so long, I forgot what I was going to say. It was going to be along the lines of David was going into our shared history with some of these people. I was going to talk about how vampires and witches are literally just representations. The whole point it had and the eating children and all that, right?

Speaker 10And the afraid of sunlight, hates crosses and can't see himself in the mirror, that kind of thing. But it doesn't really sound as much fun now to talk about as it did in my head. So I'll back off it. I can say... Because I think Serenity was talking about this whole people coming in and taking advantage of the system thing.

Speaker 10I came across some writings on Twitter a few weeks back where it turns out that our European ancestors, when they first discovered, when they first really went to Africa and Asia and everywhere else, The way they characterized the people that lived there, it wasn't so much that they were like animals or dirty or... I mean, there were some that they characterized that way.

Speaker 10But the lesson they came back with was that the whites are the only self-governing race. And I think that's interesting. It was only Europeans that had the ability to govern themselves. Every other race needed... I thought it was interesting because it explains a lot. It explains why civilization just kind of happens wherever Europeans gather in large numbers.

Speaker 10It also explains why civilization tends to fall apart when a bunch of non-Europeans come in. And, of course, we've got the Japanese. The Japanese seem to be the exception. Well, the Japanese are the exception to everything. It's like they're the exception to the economy and everything. So it's like they're also the exception for civilization, too, because they seem to be able to govern themselves as well.

Speaker 10But, and again, this is something that struck me, and it's like it's not even about hatred. It's not even about prejudice or racism. It's that just by how every group has, what every group has demonstrated, they're right. And no other race has been able to demonstrate the ability to govern themselves and keep civilization going that I can think of.

@nietzsche258918You don't think the Chinese keep civilization going for themselves?

Speaker 10So the Chinese are interesting because the Chinese are almost exclusively outside managed. They can't manage themselves. Like, Chinese culture is one of the most famous shame-based cultures.

Speaker 13Wait, are you saying that Japan manages itself internally without America?

Speaker 10Okay, why don't you, one question at a time, one question at a time. We'll deal with that in a second. Okay, so you just fucked up. Let me answer.

@joann_marieOkay, I'll try to just stop.

Speaker 10No, seriously. Just let me answer one question at a time. So, if you look at China, China is a very heavily shame-based society, right? They don't have guilt. And that seems to be one of the key components of this. Europeans have guilt. If we do something wrong, we will feel bad.

@nietzsche258918Wait, how can China be shame-based with no guilt? If there were no guilt, how would shame come into the equation?

Speaker 10You just called him out so fucking hard. Yeah, this is my friend.

@nietzsche258918Rabbi and I are friends, so let us have a conversation.

Speaker 10We're having a real conversation. This isn't a gotcha thing. So guilt and shame are different. They're different things. They are... They're not mutually exclusive, but you don't need one to have the other. So guilt is when you feel bad inside of yourself, right? No one is outside telling you you've done something wrong.

Speaker 10You stole the candy bar and you walk back and you regret it because, you know, I feel like I've kind of betrayed my family's expectations of me or I feel like I might have hurt somebody by doing this or whatever. Or maybe a more obvious example, you knock down your sister and steal her toy. You don't need your mom to tell you to feel bad because you feel bad because you just hurt your little sister.

Speaker 10That's guilt. Shame is when you feel bad about doing something wrong, but the only reason you feel bad about it is because the other people around you have made you feel bad. They've ostracized you socially. Outside of Europe, you don't have a lot of guilt. You have shame. Right? Shame seems to be like the default setting.

@nietzsche258918My friend, I would respectfully suggest those two things go hand in hand, right? If you, the whole point of a parent raising a child is to guide them in the right direction and to disincentivize them. You know, children by their very nature are rather, they're little troglodytes. I mean, they're not very thoughtful of other people.

@nietzsche258918They can be very selfish, short-sighted, delay gratification, and the idea of sort of inspiring them to join the Thank you for having me.

@nietzsche258918Then you might sink to the lowest common denominator, wouldn't you? Here's the thing.

Speaker 10Okay, dude, just shut the fuck up. This isn't an invitation for a random jury to jump in and start trying to drive a wedge between me and David Nietzsche. We're actually having a good conversation. You want to call me random?

@nietzsche258918I'm not random. I'm not random. I'm not random. I wish I had a t-shirt that said that.

Speaker 10No, okay, so this is what I'm saying. Actually, David, you're agreeing with me. You're discussing the stages that kids go through. Kids start off with shame. That's the default setting for the human race. We start off with shame, and as we become adults, we evolve guilt. So when I talk about society functioning, I'm talking about the adults in the society because they're what makes up the part of that society that matters.

Speaker 10And a lot of places, like look at India, for example. They never evolve guilt. They stay in shame into adulthood. That's one way to put it, yeah. Gotcha.

Speaker 10But this is the way psychologists define it. Because they've done studies on this. Sociologists do studies on guilt-based society, shame-based society.

@joann_marieWhat the fuck, dude?

Ian MalcolmWho is this?

@joann_marieRandom Jerry, we'll come to you in a second.

Ian MalcolmHang on, Random Jerry. I like that title for the time being.

Ian MalcolmRabbi, the thing that I think you're hinting at, and it's actually kind of an interesting way to take this, and I'm not saying I agree with the position, but to go back to that idea of self-imposed guilt is essentially shame. It's that old adage, right, that you are basically as good as you are when no one will find out that you're bad.

Ian MalcolmWhen no one's watching, yeah. Because if nobody's around to note what you're doing, and you still choose to do the right thing, that is that, it has to be an internal, Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 10I think you and David and whoever else would like to join this.

Ian MalcolmThis could actually be kind of an interesting roundtable conversation, not to lay this out as a, let's say, a conclusion that we've arrived at, but almost to put the ingredients on the table. Because as you're saying this, I hadn't thought of the shopping cart concept. David, isn't it curious, this idea that 30 years ago in America, everybody returned the shopping cart.

Ian MalcolmAnd now, because of the Jewish supremacists, they basically are going to have to put Palantir and cameras and drones in every shopping cart to make sure that people are force-functioned to return the shopping cart to ensure that they don't lose their social credit score, right?

@nietzsche258918And let's not lose sight of the fact that they're the ones... Ironically, making everything we put in that shopping cart very expensive. Confucius, speaking of one of the greatest moral philosophers ever, he said, and in Chinese, and he said that customs make us better, laws make us worse. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically what he said.

@nietzsche258918And in a high trust society, Nietzsche's idea that the dark pall or dark cloud of asceticism is worse than what it portends. So when you have a group of people telling everybody else they're evil and that they have to sort of stand over every man, woman, and child with a gun at their head every moment of their life because, gosh, we crawled out of the primordial ooze and we can't survive another minute without these awful people standing over us, threatening us, menacing us because we're bad people after all.

@nietzsche258918Well, this does duracinate society. People do start to be convinced that they're each other's enemy and, of course, Who would do such a convincing? Who would be in the convincing business? Who would want to undermine that high trust in a society? The people who wish to divide and conquer you. Obviously, they are an infinitesimally small, cowardly group of people, and there is no way that they can rule over you unless they destroy the dialogue between humans, unless they destroy the trust between humans.

@nietzsche258918So yeah, you know, Immanuel Kant's categorical imperative is that Imagine everything was a universal law operating that way. And the shopping cart analogy, Rabbi, is just perfect here. I've always actually used it for, you know the little basket you get in America for everybody else? We can just get a little basket instead of the shopping cart?

@nietzsche258918Well, I always take that back myself because I think, well, it only is a half a trip for me. But if the attendant takes it back, they have to go all the way there and back. So that's an example of thinking about my brothers and sisters. And just thinking, well, gosh, this is best for all if we behave this way. But it's just odd.

@nietzsche258918And Ian, I guess this is a long answer to your question. There's one group of people that are actually being pretty effective at making us think that we're each other's enemy. And by doing that, destroying a high-trust society.

Speaker 13Expose yourself without telling me that you exposed yourself.

Ian MalcolmWhat are you talking about? Wait, wait, wait. I'm wearing clothes, so I don't understand. Alpha WTF. Please explain yourself.

Ian MalcolmNuff said. I'm sincerely trying to understand what you're even trying to convey.

@nietzsche258918I was exposing myself, by the way. I was sharing my thoughts, so...

Speaker 13That doesn't mean anything.

@nietzsche258918Right. Good job saying nothing.

Ian MalcolmThere's a lot of words to say nothing.

@nietzsche258918Right, right.

Ian MalcolmOh, I said everything I needed to say. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I think he might have said everything you were capable of saying.

@nietzsche258918We all agree that you said everything you needed to say. Hold on, hold on. We all agree that you said everything you needed to say. In fact, hold on. We all agree that you said everything you needed to say. In fact, we agree that you said more than you needed to say. So thank you for your absolute vacuous comments. Thank you.

@nietzsche258918I'm helping you. Tell me how you help me.

@joann_marieHe doesn't need to help. He's doing amazing.

@nietzsche258918How have you helped me? Go ahead. Oh, Ian knows. Oh, okay. So another tautology? You don't matter. Another tautology. You're going to say it is what it is now? We need more tautologies from you. Thank you. No, you don't need anything else from me. I've said all I need to say. That's correct. Technically, you're right. That was probably true when you were one years old.

Speaker 13I mean, you want to make fun of it now, but... DavidNietzsche2310, Rabbi [guest]-Levy, Lindsey, Serenity, IQviaJQ, Debbydebbynb.blusky.social, McMercy

Speaker 10All right, guys. Anyways, Ian, thank you.

Ian MalcolmNo, no, Alpha, I'm just having fun. But it is comical because sometimes the most powerful thing you can say is simply yes or no, David. And I don't know about you, but sometimes I struggle with that because I feel the impulse to add context that isn't needed.

@nietzsche258918I think you were the only one getting it a couple of nights ago when someone kept injecting into everything he was saying, do you understand what I'm saying? And I just kept saying no. No, no. Every time he said it, it was reflexive, you know, when people do this.

@phagankeanThat was so good, David.

@nietzsche258918It was really good. I don't let this happen in my personal life. I once had, when I was single, a girl introducing me to another girl, and she kept saying, right when I met her, does that make sense? Does that make sense? Do you see what I'm saying? And I stopped her after the fourth time, and I said, listen, I don't need a pop quiz after every one of your sentences.

@nietzsche258918Do your best. To communicate effectively, and I'll let you know what I don't understand. But when people say, you see what I'm saying? You understand what I'm saying? No, no, no idea. I don't feel a responsibility to pretend that I do.

Ian MalcolmThe thing that's kind of sad about that is I imagine, David, there's some people that have instinctively taught themselves to say that just because they know they're not doing a good job expressing themselves.

@nietzsche258918I've always felt the exact same way. I've always felt, and this is for everybody in the room, including your kids, If they reflexively say, you see what I'm saying? You know what I mean? You see where I'm coming from? If they say this, they probably are inconfident about their capacity to communicate. What I would say is, say less, but think about what it is you want to say.

@nietzsche258918You know, Hitchlap in spaces says something really great. He says, it's okay to take notes. It's okay to put your thoughts in order. I find that most people that have a little humility about it, Thank you for joining us.

Ian MalcolmTake notes, be prepared, be competent, and then be confident in your competence. Because if you think about it, imagine the 17- or 16-year-old driver going down the highway that's constantly making tiny little adjustments while frantically looking all around. They're probably setting themselves up for as much, if not more, of the probability of an accident than just calmly being confident with what they're doing, looking where they're supposed to, when they're supposed to, and not constantly trying to make every teeny little mistake.

Ian MalcolmLittle micro adjustment, right? And it's probably the exact same thing with your speech patterns, with your thoughts, right? When you start second guessing everything, you're just, it's like being on a, imagine the young man or woman who's on a date and the entire time they're in the back of their head thinking, I hope I'm doing this right, right?

Ian MalcolmOh, what did they mean when they said that, right? Kind of go with it. David, do you believe this is a weird question? Do you believe in that concept of the flow state? When people are doing the thing they're supposed to be doing, it just happens the way it's supposed to?

@nietzsche258918Absolutely. I was in that earlier today when I posted out that picture of my wife's mocha, yes.

Ian MalcolmYeah, it's a... And some people have it because it's funny because it could be from a, I suppose, the creation of something in a kitchen. It could be participating in a sport. It could be delivering a concept or an idea, a significant other. David, you mentioned that one time where somebody told you the perfect moment was on a horse under a tree, right?

@nietzsche258918Yeah. Well, you know, when I talk about, I mentioned to [guest], we were talking about the two states of intuition. And the second one comes from a lot of work. Well, as in master, I will say this, I've never said this in space, has said to me once, it takes great effort to achieve effortlessness. And I think... No, I haven't seen it.

@nietzsche258918Yeah, that was an example of a flow state. And by the way, dialogically, something that I think will make people closer to a flow state is if you don't go in to sort of own the other person. So you notice when [guest] and I were talking, we were trying to understand each other and trying to kind of have a transmission of mind instead of, you know, spurging out and you're this and that.

@nietzsche258918I think that gives you, dialogically, a better chance at a flow state than... Going into, you know, like the guy who debated, what is it, Candace Owens, and he was like a little child, like, you know, he wasn't a debater, he was a quibbler, and I'm going to get you. You know, I don't think you're ever going to achieve flow state.

@nietzsche258918I'll tell you another example of flow state.

Speaker 10You and I don't have anything to prove. We're not insecure. Like, that attitude is a function of insecurity. Like, you want to go in and you want to win. And so you put pressure on yourself because you're like, I have to win. But when you and I are talking, like, we're not trying to win. We're just trying to figure out what reality is so we both can navigate it better.

Speaker 10So there's no, you know what I mean? There's no anxiety.

@nietzsche258918The truth is the wall. And if your back is against the wall, then it's the wall that people are making war with. It doesn't actually need your defense. I know he's freestyling every time.

@joann_marieIt's insane. I'm always like, oh my God!

Speaker 10I know for sure that he has not written that down. Ian is what I sound like in the shower, right after the space. And I'm like, oh man, I should have said this.

@joann_marieI don't even sound like that in my imagination in the shower. I also do that, Rabbi, and I don't know. That never happens. It's amazing.

@nietzsche258918I see.

@nietzsche258918Well, anyway, that's a great example of a flow state, which is why Dank is a blessing to all the rest of us when he clips those things because they're very wonderful to hear. You can never be, you can never be so, you know, Steve Jobs was asked, should you get like a degree in computer science or whatever? What is he recommended for kids?

@nietzsche258918He said, no. He said, you should do whatever you're passionate about because you can never be as good without that passion. And if you really believe in something, then you can find a flow state. And you may think, oh no, that's someone else. No, no, no, no, no. Because it'll be natural to you, so you won't really see it as readily as other people do.

@nietzsche258918But other people will be, wow, that was really excellent. And the last thing I'll say on this is, when you're in person or anywhere and someone does something, has a moment of sort of ethereal excellence of which even they are not aware, because they're often armed, because it's so intuitive to them, Let them know that.

@nietzsche258918Say, oh, wow, that was awesome. You know, what you just said was awesome. You know, even if you're just at a cocktail party or at a family thing, when someone, you might catch a little bit of a flow state and you might be the only one that picks up on it and bless you for pointing it out to the other person and complimenting them on it.

Speaker 10I always try and make, I always make an effort to recognize what is excellent in people, like what they do best. It's amazing how underrated the random compliment is. And the random specific compliment. You know, when I used to travel a lot...

@nietzsche258918I would never, when the waiter would ask how the food was, because I'm kind of a foodie, so, you know, I'd always pick the nicest restaurant in Chicago or whatever, and I'd go there. And when the waiter would ask me, you know, how is the food, I'd be very, very specific. And I don't go, oh, it's good. I'll say, well, this is what you did great, and blah, blah, blah.

@nietzsche258918You know, and generally it's all positivity. So one time at a really, really nice place in a metropolitan city, and I actually ate at the bar because it was kind of late, and it was just too good. It was just too good of a restaurant to not make it that night. And I'm sitting beside a person, and I said, he said, what did you think of the food?

@nietzsche258918And I just gave him really a breakdown on how great the food was. And I said, whoa, have you eaten here? What do you think? He said, I'm actually the owner and the chef, so I really appreciate it. But he was very grateful that he's this clandestine, like Henry V, walking around his soldiers where no one knows who he is, you know?

@nietzsche258918And he's just hearing real feedback, and I'm giving him very specific. And it made me feel good that I got to tell someone who participates in excellence, probably doing his own flow state thing back there with the magnificent...

@nietzsche258918That I really liked or remembered or benefited from. And I tell him that thing. And I do that to this day. So yeah, everybody compliments. My gosh, if you can think of a good one that you've done recently, I'd love to hear it.

@joann_marieI love this. We need to normalize it. There is a lot of people who are like, no, that's kissing ass. No, do it. It's wonderful. Being nice to others and also helping others, being kind. I love giving compliments. When they're real, when they're not, I don't like it. But no, you guys are absolutely amazing.

Speaker 10This is a compliment. Thank you.

@joann_marieThank you.

Speaker 10You're walking the walk. I love it.

@joann_marieI do walk the walk, though.

@nietzsche258918You do. But not the backhanded compliment, right? Because, I mean, like a backhanded compliment is like,

Speaker 10Rabbi... You literally just lost a lot of weight, didn't you?

@nietzsche258918No, Rabbi Ian said you weren't fit to sleep with pigs, and I stuck up for you. I said you were.

Speaker 10Yeah, exactly.

@nietzsche258918Exactly. That's right.

Speaker 10Yeah.

Speaker 2Yeah.

Speaker 10No, it's weird. Like, when I was growing up, like, it was really weird, like, learning how... Because, how can I put this? Growing up in, like, I guess just as an American, we don't really talk about other people, so we don't really comment on other people as much.

Speaker 10Don't get enough sleep, do you? Or just random things, because I'm just basically commenting on everything, right?

@joann_marieThat's so pure, though.

Speaker 10Trying to make sense of the world, right? You look tired is the worst to say to a woman.

@nietzsche258918Never say to a woman, you look tired.

Speaker 10Right? But obviously with a lot of trial and error, I eventually figured out, okay, you can say... You can comment on other people, but you only comment on things that are going, in your estimation, are going to make them feel better about themselves. And then I had to go through the whole series, the whole process of, okay, that thing that I thought was going to make them feel better about themselves actually didn't.

Speaker 10And so my calibration's off. So I had to write that. And so now I'm at a point where it's like I generally understand what I can say and what I can't. But it was a lot of... It was a lot of trial and error. There's a lot of misses there. And I think a lot of people just are afraid of the process, right? And that's why we don't do it as much.

Speaker 10But you really, really should. It is going to blow you away how you can light someone's face up by giving them a compliment. And the reason most people don't do it is because they're afraid that it's going to sound like a, come on. But that was... Yeah?

@joann_marieThey also, they shame people. Like, I see it. If someone says something nice, they're like, oh, you're simping! So now nobody says anything. Like, they are trying to make people stop giving compliments to people. Like, they are actually trying.

Speaker 10That whole thing about, oh, you're simping, that's basically the same thing as, it's the same energy as when you're second grade and you're playing with a girl and like, oh, she's your girlfriend now. And you're like, she's not my girlfriend, get away. And it's like,

@nietzsche258918That's the same mental maturity. Well, if it was the person to whom I complimented, then that would be the last compliment I'd ever pay to them. But if it was someone else, I would just disregard that. I do want to throw in, and IQ, maybe you have a comment on this, of Emeru. Also, take compliments well, you know? Don't shrug them off.

@nietzsche258918If it's a quality you have, just say, oh, thank you, that's very kind of you. Don't... Don't all shucks. No, that's not true. You know, people, when they give you compliments, I think they kind of want you to receive the compliments, like being given a gift. You know, don't hand it back to them and say, I don't deserve this.

@nietzsche258918Unless you really think you don't. What do you think, Emery?

@iqviajqYeah, I think hello to everyone. It's been an incredible space. And I saw what Serenity said. You know, it's a form of reinforcement. Reinforcement and punishment. Thank you for your time.

@iqviajqWhen someone is affirming your abilities or an accomplishment, that's more objectivity that's provided, as long as they're an honest person. And I'm guessing, David, since you're... Sorry, my room was going off.

@iqviajqSo, David, you were saying that you're a foodie and that you kind of went into detail. And knowing how articulate you are, I'm sure you felt incredible after you said that. It's very effective.

@nietzsche258918The only exception is when the waitron sheepishly comes back and says, the chef wants to know if you're a food critic. I'm like, no, no, I'm not. Don't be scared. I just think you're doing a really great job here, and I want you to keep doing it.

@iqviajqI always imagine it to be like it's an event when you're talking to the... Waiter, everyone's like silent and listening, and what's this guy going to say? Like, he looks like he's an important person. I mean, I think of you as an ancient philosopher we dug up, you know, thousands of years ago, and you're coming back to save us from, you know, the Jewish Terminator, essentially.

@nietzsche258918Did you unwrap me? Like, was I, or maybe I was like Alexander the Great where I was in Honey or something? You know, I will tell you this. Aristotle said pride, he thought that pride was the crowning virtue because it's the psychological payoff for practicing the other virtues. So I think it's okay to have a sort of enlightened pride with your virtues.

@nietzsche258918If someone compliments you and says, you know, I really appreciate that you're, let's say, Amaru, you're honest and you're direct and you're thoughtful. Well, I think the appropriate response for you is, well, thank you. That's a very kind thing for you to say. Thank you. And that's it. I don't think there should be any all shucks.

@nietzsche258918Schopenhauer thought that false humility or that humility was overly inspired in terms of sort of like groveling. It was really to level off for people that weren't practicing their virtues. It was really sort of like to favor them when other people are doing their level best to be good or being a good person. So yeah, I think people should accept those compliments readily and honestly if they think that they're well-deserved.

@iqviajqYeah, and something that you guys were discussing, Rabbi and David, that really got me thinking is the difference between being controlled by shame versus guilt, almost as if guilt is an internalized shame that's created by you instead of the group. And what I find interesting about the prefrontal cortex is that a lot of its executive functions are almost like internalized

@iqviajqsocial functions like self-monitoring like tracking yourself and your errors and just being very aware of yourself that is almost like the group watching you right and you talking to others via language versus you talking in your head via language it's like communication with yourself that you know started from modeling you know communication with others so it's like um it's like when it becomes an executive function it's almost more sophisticated

@iqviajqSo in that sense, guilt is more sophisticated than shame. So in a way, if we act well, despite the fact that no one is watching, we get rewarded. We become a more sophisticated person. And with high trust societies, what it allows is cooperation, because cooperation, social power, or social, what is it called? Anyway, just basically collective power, like what ants do.

@nietzsche258918Like high trust or something.

@iqviajqYeah, well, collective power, like what ants do and what humans do. The only issue with that is the trust. If it's not there, that gets in the way of cooperation. And I'm glad that you were dissing suicidal empathy because I hate that term because I think of it as a mocking term by the Jews. I mean, coined by a fat Jew.

@iqviajqAnd they're always appealing to this lack of empathy that they want us to feel about other people. But demand it for themselves when they're crying anti-Semitism. And he does that a lot on this app.

@nietzsche258918But don't you think that really on the part of God and other Jewish supremacists, they're just blaming the victim. They're saying, you know, you have a sickness that lets us take advantage of you.

Speaker 10I think he's actually... Go ahead. Yeah, I was going to say, I think in God's side, I think you're talking about, right? The suicide on the book. I think what he's doing is he's hijacking. He's taking something that we talk about and does get talked about by Europeans, by American Europeans, European Europeans. And because he's Jewish, he's like, aha, I need to get ahead of this and make a dime off it.

Speaker 10And that's what he's doing. He's part of this whole, the Jewish fall to right wing. The right wing of the American Jews, the job of them... Thank you very much.

Speaker 10The Blue Haired People and shit like that. The South Shapiro got its whole grip going. That's how we got it all started. You get this whole woke thing going and then a bunch of Jews come out and they have these huge budgets so they can have these really high production value podcasts and they can get other Jews to like and retweet their videos and so they get a huge following and they get lots of audience and they'll come out and because they have that projection, that audience, they'll position themselves as the vanguard.

Speaker 10as the real defenders against woke. And then as soon as woke implodes, they immediately take all that capital that they've earned by fighting woke, and they reinvest it in Israel. Right? That's their job.

@nietzsche258918I think what you're saying is that one side breaks your legs, the other side sells you the crutches, and then the spokesman tells you, without us, you couldn't walk. Exactly. I would say, getting back to Emeru's point, you know, as far as the high-trust society, Aristophanes said that wise people, even though all laws were abolished, would still lead the same life.

@nietzsche258918And I think it's true with what [guest] was saying earlier about shame, you know, and that you feel that tension where you want to behave better. But there is a point where, and speaking of flow state, where you just become habituated to being kind and nice to others. Like, it's fun. Like, I don't know if you've ever gotten...

Speaker 10David, you would think so because you're European. But I think for a lot of other people, that never comes. They don't get habituated to it. You take them out of India, out of Saudi Arabia, and you put them into a place where no one knows them, and they immediately begin misbehaving. You know the old joke, why do you always invite two Muslims to go fishing?

Speaker 10Why? Because if you invite one, he drinks all your beer.

Speaker 10Oh, I see.

@nietzsche258918You see? Well, okay.

Speaker 10That joke exists for a reason.

@nietzsche258918Okay, but what about within there? But what about, like, I believe in biophilia. You know, the thing that we've lost over civilizationally is that humans do, you know, Peter Kropotkin, who wrote... He's kind of a socialist anarchist, and he wrote Mutual Aid, and he starts out with the most base forms, like bees and things, moves all the way up to humans.

@nietzsche258918This is a masterpiece in the 19th century. And he basically said, we get along much better than we think we do. Now, this predates, I mean, this isn't just true of white civilizations, right? In the Levant, this is true. We can see this is true in Chinese civilization, can we? I mean, in other words, they do function. There is mutual aid.

@nietzsche258918There is, I mean, don't forget, the government is merely... Let me just finish this. Government is merely a reflection of the consciousness of the people. So you can't even say that they literally created that out of their own racial consciousness. So doesn't that kind of make the point?

Speaker 10You are correct in that we tend to function and get along with each other, but that's not the point. The point is, what does it take to get them to function and work well together? And if you look at the Levant, for example, the most successful form of government in the Levant is is not European-style democracy. That tends to fall, that tends to do very poorly, right?

Speaker 10The most effective form of government in the Levant is you steal something, we cut your hand off, right? You kill someone and we kill you. Or it's very, very kind of an eye for an eye kind of a thing. And it's brutal. Like there's a reason why you still have capital punishment in the Middle East by cutting people's heads off with a sword, right?

Speaker 10It's because it's probably still necessary, right?

@joann_marieIt's also necessary in the West, Rabbi. We can definitely have that conversation.

Speaker 10We can definitely have that conversation. But it's only necessary in the West.

Speaker 16Well, let's have it, Rabbi. You're saying the things that we're doing here in the Middle East are actually... No, no, come on, hang on, hang on.

Speaker 10McMercy, you just ruined, you stepped over my line. Listen, I want it back to Joann. Joann, it only became necessary in the West after we let who... McMercy, shut the fuck up. I'll say it again. I'm going to keep repeating it until you let me say it. JoAnn, it only became necessary in the West after we let who come in.

@joann_marieRight? Yeah.

Speaker 10And that's key. So that tells you it isn't just about geography or culture.

@joann_marieBut it wasn't just Muslims. It's like everybody.

Speaker 10But my point isn't just Muslim. My point is like literally it's just Europeans seem to be the only ones that have evolved this guilt-based culture. Internal Governance. Now you can go ahead, McMercy. What do you want to share?

Speaker 16How is it that killing people who are killing other people and raping other people is the only possible form of government in the Middle East because we cannot handle democracy? But you Western people have your values of democracy, so your government is really, really good and representative of your people. Now go ahead to those headchoppers, even in the Middle East, and compare it with the American government.

Speaker 16So do you really think you're better because of your government? And do you think that comes from your culture to hang on? You said your piece, now you can listen. You're always preaching, but you're making statements without any justification for any of the things you're saying. So how about you just listen one time? Yes, you are.

@joann_marieI think, for example, pedophiles should be put to death. Like, I actually do believe this. In every single country in the world, like 100% of them.

Speaker 10Right in the wood chipper.

Speaker 16I understand that every time you discuss like the Middle East, you talk like an expert who knows what's going on here, but the things that you think are fundamentally wrong. You don't understand any of it. Prove me wrong. You're talking about head chopping instead of... No, hang on. It's punishment. And actually, it comes from Torah if you want to go back.

Speaker 16And it is in Christianity. It is in your holy book too. And no, it is coming... What?

Speaker 10Jews also exist in a shame-based society.

Speaker 16They don't feel guilty. Okay, so what the fuck the Western society has that you're talking about here right now? If you take all those religions, then what it is that makes you look better? It's not better. More understanding? No, you say it, actually. You cover it up in words. But you're saying it in a way... No, no, no, hang on.

Speaker 16Hang on. Hang on. I want you to answer when I ask you a question. Why are you answering before I ask a question?

Speaker 10All right, you got another question? Go ahead.

Speaker 16Well, you think... Am I understanding this right?

Speaker 16So what I'm saying is that if you look at the two different... You can break down all societies into these two types, guilt-based and shame-based. And if you look at European society, it is characterized as being one of...

Speaker 10The only, if not, one of the only, if not the only, guilt-based societies, right? If you do something wrong, you carry that guilt inside you, and you don't need someone else to tell you that you've done something wrong. Where did you get that?

Speaker 16You don't need outside enforcement to know that you've done something wrong. I just told you, you just make statements. You're saying that Western people have conscience, but Eastern people don't? You feel guilty when you do something wrong, but we don't?

Speaker 10I'm saying that Western people, in the aggregate, and not every single individual one, mind you, okay? I'm saying in the aggregate... Europeans seem to have evolved this guilt-based impulse, if you want to call it. Where do you get it?

Speaker 16Why do you say Europeans and not Asians, for instance? Where do you get this? This is a statement. Where's your proof?

Speaker 10McMercy, McMercy. Okay, calm down. I'm going to answer all your questions.

Speaker 16I told you in the beginning, I don't need your explanations. You think you know a lot. I'm actually making a bunch of statements. I'm asking questions.

@joann_marieOkay, if you don't want the explanation, then don't ask it.

Speaker 16I do. I'm saying the things that I don't ask. I don't want explanation to those things. I didn't ask you about guilt in Europe. I asked you about the form of government and what you're saying. That if religion comes from the East and Eastern people deserve it because they're a bunch of hedgehoppers, then what the West fucking have?

Speaker 10Not what I said. Explain that. I understand. McMercy, hold on. Listen, I understand you have a bug up your ass, okay? But that doesn't mean you can just come in here and grossly misstate what I said and the demand I explained. This is not how these things go.

Speaker 16So from explaining, you went on to attacking me personally, whatever.

Speaker 10Argue with what I've actually said.

Speaker 16I just did that. I told you these statements that you're making, there's no logic behind it. You're just saying it. Europeans have this guilt trip, like the biggest guilt trip in the whole world. Where did you get it?

Speaker 10Not what I said. Okay. Not what I said. And again, take mercy. Where are you from? Where are you from? I found it. Where are you from, sir?

Speaker 16How does it matter? I'm from Iran. If you don't understand this much, you have to listen to people.

Speaker 10Are you of European descent?

Speaker 16I just told you Iran. I'm from Iran.

Speaker 10You're actually lending credence to my statement by showing and demonstrating that you're incapable of understanding the difference in the value of a guilt-based society over a shame-based one.

Speaker 16I'm saying you're making an assumption, a statement that this I'm saying what is your proof? You're saying Islam is not compatible with the West. I have heard you tell this many times. Where is your proof?

Speaker 10This is a classification. It's a model.

Speaker 16There's a reason for every classification.

Speaker 10For instance, we say these people... McMercy, what's true about models? This is very easy.

Speaker 16You're not going to get out of this by just getting to philosophy or whatever. I don't understand anything about any of what you're saying.

Speaker 10Is that going to help? But some of them are useful. Where do you get it from?

Speaker 16Is that possible for you to tell me where you get it from? Because we started by you saying that Eastern cultures, and you have said this many times before, that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are very different, and Islam is for East, Christianity is for West. Is that correct or not? I didn't say that. We never said it, so you don't say it.

Speaker 16You don't say Islam is compatible with the Western society.

Speaker 10Wait, wait, wait, wait. I did say that Islam is incompatible with the Western society. I didn't say it was for the East. I said Islam, I would say, I have said that Islam, it was made for the people of the Middle East. Okay, you can say that.

Speaker 16Another statement. How do you get it? Because Islam, in Islamic belief system, because it's the last religion, it is for everyone. Not for a specific group of people.

Speaker 10So where do you get your... That's the PR that Muslims tell themselves. That's not a statement that has any truth to it objectively.

Speaker 16Again, this is statement in Quran and in narrations. It's not PR. It's not coming from Muslims. It's coming from the source of Islam.

Speaker 10And the Quran is just a book that Muslims wrote.

Speaker 16Well, you think that Islam is like just a book. It's not a religion. It's not coming down from God.

@joann_marieI understand your mindset because whatever Western people have... Yeah, but the West is really happy being Christian. Like, seriously, it's really annoying when people are like, no, but you should try Islam. You know, like, no, bro. Like, I love Muslims and I love, like, I genuinely do love them, but it's really annoying when they are like, well, you know, like, no, just...

@joann_marieAnd it's part of the culture. I'm not getting it. What is annoying, JoAnn? Imagine if we wanted to make everyone in the Middle East Christian. Like, no, it's crazy.

Speaker 10If you have a younger brother and he can't read yet, you don't hate him because he can't read, right? He's your younger brother. You love him and you help him to read. That's it. But you don't let him go around telling you that you can't read and it doesn't exist. Rabbi.

Speaker 16Rabbi. You think you have something to teach us, but you don't. So when I'm discussing this with you, it's actually because I want you to maybe after such a long time that we have had such discussions, listen and learn something. I don't know why this is like a culture with people who are a little bit, a little bit not that educated.

Speaker 16With regard to religion, because you Western people, you don't study religion. You either accept it or you move on from it. And I'm saying this sincerely because the level of studying... Hang on, I'm not... You see, you can't even listen for a couple of minutes.

Speaker 10You interrupt me all the time, so why can't I return the favor?

Speaker 16Yeah, I do. I do. Because I know what I'm talking about in this area. When you tell me shut up, I shut up and listen to you. Because I think maybe he has something to say.

@joann_marieHow would you feel if we were like, oh yeah, we're pushing Christianity in the Middle East. How would you feel? It's okay.

Speaker 16It's okay. If you have a message and that message is good.

Speaker 16It's understandable you say we don't want these many immigrants. We don't in Iran too. So I understand that part too. But if you think it's because the culture in Islam or eastern side of the world is inferior to yours, well, that part, you're mistaken. Because civilization comes from this side of... Hang on. Do you see?

Speaker 16I was talking about Islam and you were quiet. Just as soon as I got to you, you can just hold on for a couple minutes. You are doing it all the time. Muslims, Islam, our resources, our Eastern culture. Shut up. Now this is your turn to shut up because you're the one who's always making statements. If you think I'm wrong in one regard, ask me.

Speaker 16I either provide my proof or my evidence or I'm going to accept yours. Okay? But right now, you're making assumptions, and you're saying Islamist is in that Islamic country.

@nietzsche258918Let me ask you this question. Go ahead. I'm a little confused here, though, but when we're talking about high-trust societies, I don't really see why you're bringing in religion, right? And look, I understand that our morals and ethics are either reflected into our religion or derived or inspired by our religion, but But ultimately, we're talking about the behaviors of the people themselves, right?

@nietzsche258918And that's where the rubber meets the road, isn't it? So, for instance, if I were to go into a Japanese society, I wouldn't really need to study their religion to know to what degree I'm visiting a very high-trust society. So, I don't really know why we're bringing religion into this in that context.

Speaker 16Well, First and foremost because the characteristics that are presented here as the characteristics of Middle Eastern people and calling them hedgehoppers because of it mostly come from religion. and people over here.

@joann_marieI honestly see that as a compliment. I genuinely think that there should be, like, they should be doing that in their lives. We do take it. With corruption, with pedophilia, with, like, all, like, those people need to be stopped and I think they should maybe not, like, do it publicly, but they should, the death penalty should 100% happen.

Speaker 10But the greater point is this. Yes, I am. Hang on. No, no, no.

Speaker 16I haven't answered even the question David was asking. Why are you just ranting? I haven't answered David's question.

Speaker 10I was in the middle of... Why is it? Why is it that you're allowed to have opinions about everyone else, but I can't have an opinion about you?

Speaker 16I don't. I don't have opinions. No, actually, if you were, you see, this is another thing. Even about American soldiers in the region, when I want to have opinions about them, I consider their stupidity. And I say, no, we shouldn't even kill Americans. Hang on. You see, you're not seeing my logic, so you're starting to bullshit.

Speaker 16Just hang on and let me just make my point. Maybe you would learn something.

Speaker 10I'm waiting.

Speaker 16we don't judge people we don't say they're good or bad we see them as different that's not judging and we always try and all of this hang on you see again just shut the up for one minute you just ask the question why are you not waiting to listen to the answer because you don't understand our culture you have talked to many Muslims maybe hang on okay well

@nietzsche258918Let me ask you this and kind of lower the tone, my friend. So, do you live in Iran now or did you ever live in Iran? Yeah, I'm in Iran, in Tehran. I'm Iranian. Okay, good. I'm sorry I needed to ask that. I should have known by now. So, do you consider Tehran, where you live, do you consider where you live to be a high-trust society?

@nietzsche258918Yes. I mean, do you know what the term means? It's where you, as far as the level of honorability, where people get along, where they don't steal from each other. They just sort of are very well ordered.

Speaker 16This is like a thing in Islam. It says when you live in a society of Muslims, you should live in a way that you wouldn't be afraid for your money, for you to be stolen, you know, anything of yours to be stolen. You should be able to trust the food that you're eating as clean and halal. In Islamic bazaars and markets and so on and so forth.

Speaker 16There are some characteristics. If we don't meet those characteristics, we cannot call ourselves an Islamic society. So yes, we live in a high-trust society.

@nietzsche258918Okay. Go ahead. Second question. Do you think that that high-trust society comes from Islam or just comes from the people themselves?

Speaker 16No, it's mostly coming from people. Because we have had this culture way before Islam. There are some things that are refined, you could say, in Islam, but most of it is Iranian. Go ahead.

@nietzsche258918Yeah, I mean, I'll give an example. Like, liberal democracy without Jewish domination has existed for a very long time. And whenever people talk about, in Western civilization, when they'll say, well... The Swedish, they have very low crime and they kind of have quasi-socialism. I used to always argue back, well, it's because they're just a high-trust society.

@nietzsche258918They could pretty much be anarchic and get along with one another. And I'll give another example. This is a total white culture up in Portland, Maine. I had a mother telling me, you know, all of our children just leave their bicycles at the bus stop and they're just all there. And the assumption there is that they will be there.

@nietzsche258918And when they come back and get off the bus, and indeed they are there. So these are examples of a high trust society. And I believe that a high trust society really sort of comes out of the culture and the people themselves, like over thousands, over millennia. And I mean, I'm inclined to actually believe that would be the case in Tehran, given how old the civilization is.

@nietzsche258918I do think that there are different versions of this. And I would judge, by the way, if I go into any other civilization, I wouldn't really judge them necessarily on how they treated me as an interloper. I would judge them on how they treated each other. Does that make sense?

Speaker 16Yes, of course. And we take it one step further and we say if you want to judge one person, you have to judge that person based on that person's mindset. For instance... In Islam, I'm just giving a very simplified version. In Islam, drinking alcohol is haram. You shouldn't do it. So if you see a Muslim drinking alcohol or you see a Christian drinking alcohol, your mindset should be different judgments about these two because the Muslim is doing something according to his own belief system that's wrong and the Christian is doing something according to his belief system that's right.

Speaker 16So there is a huge difference there. But not on the basics, right?

Speaker 10Those are obviously things that are recommended or practiced by the church, I'm sorry, by Islam.

@nietzsche258918But you wouldn't care from what direction they came or their background in regards to lying, cheating, stealing.

@nietzsche258918sexual assault, those sorts of things.

Speaker 16You wouldn't give a damn. Yeah, we do, actually. But when you say you wouldn't give a damn, we have two things. In your daily dealings, you have to trust someone until they get to a point in which the trust is lost. From then on, anything you hear from them, for instance, you have to verify. I'm making a different point.

Speaker 16I understand.

@nietzsche258918You gave the example of alcohol consumption because that's part of your religion. But lying transcends religion, right? So you wouldn't be like, well, he's from Scotland, so we're going to let him buy with a lot. If I stole something, if I stole someone's wallet, surely you would think just as badly of me if I'm from somewhere else as if I'm from Tehran, right?

Speaker 16No, you're mixing up a couple things, David. When you come to our society...

Speaker 16formed his government. They did things that were very disrespectful and were completely banned. For instance, urinating in a mosque. And this happened in front of the Holy Prophet and his followers. Ebi was angry because this is something you shouldn't be doing. But the Prophet told them he doesn't understand any better.

Speaker 16He's the better one. He hasn't been raised in the culture to understand this. So don't hurt him. Don't say anything. Let him...

Speaker 16And again, I'm going back to alcohol because it's very simple to understand. It's not controversial. Muslims say it's not okay to drink it. Christian says it is. So it's like very clear. That is why I'm going to this. But for instance, if you think this is like sour cherry drink, juice, whatever, but it's actually wine and you drink it, it's okay.

Speaker 16You haven't made any sins. You haven't committed any sins because you thought it was okay that you were doing. So make it bigger.

Speaker 16No. Um...

Ian MalcolmWhat we're going to do is I'm going to say to everybody lots of love to everyone. Certainly good morning, good evening, good afternoon for everyone that's out there. I love all of you. I hope everybody enjoyed the space. I don't think this discourse is going to go very far, so I'm just going to avoid it altogether. I hope everybody joins Mr. Truthteller's space when he does open that up.

Ian MalcolmI want to give a big shout out and lots of love to Mary Fagan who came in here and shared the updates. on her book. Everybody should be supporting and celebrating that if you can. Certainly, if you can't celebrate the book and support it with any kind of financial acquisition, I know that the story obviously is available online.

Ian MalcolmDo what you can to share it. I'm sure that Mary would appreciate that even more than the purchasing of the book. Her handle is up in the title. Certainly feel free to give that some love going there. And again, just peruse the content, share it with those that are on I think we talked about this earlier. The idea of essentially Mary's voice reaching the boomers.

Ian MalcolmShe's 72 years old, right? For somebody that watches a lot of Fox News, for them to recognize that this horror and atrocity took place 113 years ago, and most people are completely ignorant to it. Somebody said earlier in the space, if this had been a white individual who had essentially raped and murdered a little kid,

Ian Malcolmand blames it on a black guy, right? If the courts had come together and said, you know what? We actually don't believe you, Mr. White guy. We are going to sign with the black guy. We think you did it and we are going to convict you, right? Huge pivot for the country in terms of race relations. That's how that story would have been written.

Ian MalcolmI love the way that PVG presented that concept, right? Instead, this is just swept away in the sands of time and forgotten in the lost archives of history. And that's because it involves the same suspects that control all the media, all the academic institutions, and the zeitgeist of today. And so here we are a century later, and the same set of interests that were raping those little kids back then, and that at least the legal system was going after, we've essentially allowed the ADL to normalize the fact that now Tom Alexandrovich, along with a lot of the Epstein customers,

Ian Malcolmon and on and on about forever. So with that being said, lots of love to everybody. Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Certainly God bless for everything that you are. Godspeed. We are going to continue to win. I want to give immense amount of love again to Mary Fagan, to the co-hosts with the most is Ms. JoAnn, to David, to Rabbi.

Ian MalcolmI love everything listening to them. And as one little final call out, I don't know if there's been a better example on the timeline today of the benefits and the productivity of a high trust society than what we saw between Rabbi and Mr. Nietzsche. They disagreed on a bunch of things. They shared their ideas back and forth.

Ian MalcolmThey honestly tried to understand one another where they had differences. At the end of the day, they walk away perhaps a little more informed on either a topic or at least on the other person. That is what we need to do more of. I know there's lots of us that do that. And whether it's Lindsey, Serenity, whether it's Amiru, whether it's McMercy or all of you.

Ian MalcolmWe have the space tomorrow with Mr. Oliver Janich. It is going to be very interesting. This is a man who has been imprisoned in Germany for speaking out against certain things online. He's going to be coming to us with a piece on Christianity. I'm very, very excited for that. We will not be discussing certain things around words that begin with the H because we don't want him imprisoned yet again.

Ian MalcolmBut he's been speaking out against Jewish supremacy. So lots of love to him. I will see all of you in that conversation. I hope you support Mr. Truth Teller when he opens his room. And until then, as always, God bless, Godspeed. We will see you in the next conversation.

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