Name: DEBATE: Jews Worship Saturn? With @Yitzhak32941934 & @Marcionite144ad
Uploaded: 2026-10-09
Duration: 4 h 4 min 27 s
Description: The host opens the Space by framing the debate between the Marcionite and Yitzhak over whether Jews worship Saturn.

Held here entire — 713 passages across 30 chapters, set down from the first word to the last. The colour shifts with the film’s own mood as each chapter plays.

Now playing · quiet, reflectiveOpening the Saturn Worship Debate

0:00 / 4:04:27

Chapters — 30

0:00quiet, reflectiveOpening the Saturn Worship DebateThe host opens the Space by framing the debate between the Marcionite and Yitzhak over whether Jews worship Saturn.
11:52heated, combativeMarcionite Opening: Jews Worship SaturnThe Major claims the Hebrew god is a Saturnian demiurge and not the God of Jesus.
19:38raw, woundedYahweh's Genocidal Commands in the TorahA rapid-fire list of Old Testament verses paints Yahweh as bloodthirsty and evil.
29:07weathered, resignedMathematical Prophecy of 1948Yitz calculates Hebrew calendar millennia to pinpoint Israel's founding.
42:47detached, weighingYitzhak: Exodus Plagiarized Ramesses Kadesh PoemYitzhak argues the Exodus account lifted literary motifs from an Egyptian poem.
57:02measured, soberTorah Law Meant to ChangeYitzhak argues the Torah was designed to be updated across generations, citing David and Ruth.
59:07disillusionedYitzhak: Slavery Was Indentured ServitudeYitzhak clarifies biblical slavery was a six-year term of humane servitude.
1:00:32guarded, evenChiastic Structure Proves Torah UnityYitz argues the Torah's literary structure refutes the fragmented documentary hypothesis.
1:05:49grim, scorchedMarcionite: Yahweh Loves Burning FleshMarcionite argues Yahweh's demand for sacrifices proves he is Satan.
1:18:06urgent, incendiaryHeated Clash: Torah Justifies Modern GenocideMarcionite links Yahweh's commands to modern Israeli actions in Palestine.
1:30:02hard, unyieldingFact-Check: Yahweh, El, and the ExodusA guest fact-checker challenges both debaters on ancient Near East history.
1:42:20grave, forebodingMarcionite: Saturn Symbolism and the Black CubeMarcionite connects the Star of David and Tefillin to Saturnian hex symbols.
1:56:51sombre, searchingMarcionite: Pauline Christianity vs JudaismMarcionite argues Paul created Christianity as an antithesis to Judaism.
2:03:19calm, distantRabbinic Authority to Change Torah LawA listener questions how man can change divine law, prompting a debate on oral tradition.
2:05:17bleak, drainedAudience Question: Rabbinic Authority vs Divine LawA listener asks how man-made rabbinic changes can be considered divine.
2:10:11unsettlingMarcionite: Yahweh as Satanic DemiurgeMarcionite claims Yahweh is a materialistic Satan demanding global worship.
2:12:54eerie, electricSaturn Lore and Stellar MetamorphosisA caller presents alternative history theories connecting Saturn to dead stars and ancient plasma discharges.
2:20:35dimmed, waryTorah Dating and Elephantine PapyriThe Marcionite argues there is no physical evidence for the Torah prior to the second century BCE.
2:32:40murky, uneasySaturn, Cronus, and Tefillin SymbolismA caller links the Greek god Cronus to Saturn and questions Tefillin boxes.
2:44:35smouldering, restlessOriginal Christianity Was AntithesisMajorMarcionite claims early Christianity was created to reject Yahweh as a satanic demiurge.
2:50:30cool, analyticalFact-Check: Yahweh is Not God the FatherA scholar argues the Old Testament separates Yahweh from the Most High.
2:53:33conflicted, dividedYahweh and Satan as Distinct FiguresThe speaker challenges the Marcionite's view by pointing to Job and Zechariah where Satan and Yahweh interact.
3:02:48dry, matter-of-factMarcionite Bible and Original PaulMarcionite defends his position by citing the original letters of Paul as the true basis of early Christianity.
3:13:11broodingYitzhak Closing: Tabernacle Modeled on RamessesYitzhak closes by linking the biblical Tabernacle to an Egyptian military tent.
3:19:14charged, alertMarcionite Closing: Judaism is GenocidalMarcionite concludes that Judaism is a murderous and genocidal faith.
3:26:45melancholy, tenderPost-Debate Q&A: Sadducees and Catholic ChurchA listener theorizes the Sadducees became the Roman Catholic Church.
3:32:38tentative, hopefulKabbalah Tree of Death InversionA caller maps the Kabbalistic spheres to planets and argues Jews invert the Tree of Life into the Tree of Death.
3:43:11warm, expansiveIslam Kaaba Veneration DefenseA Muslim guest pushes back on the Saturn-Kaaba theory by explaining Islamic worship is directed solely to God.
3:51:36worn, nostalgicHosts Thank Co-Host and AudienceIan and JoAnn express deep gratitude to each other and the audience as the space winds down.
4:02:24calm, distantFinal Reflections and Future SpacesIan reflects on shifting public awareness and announces upcoming scheduled debates before signing off.

The Transcript

A voice is named only when we can verify it — by voiceprint, an @handle present in the room, or the Space’s own title. Anyone we can’t confirm stays “Speaker,” on purpose.

Ian MalcolmTo the feud of all ages, a battle of the wits in which the Christian will take on the Jew. In a monumental battle of wits, of intellect, of genius perhaps, we are going to see a wild foray of frenzy between this battle of the big titans that are MajorMarcionite and the incomparable, the unstoppable, the innumerable. Mr. Yitzhak, who is here to defend his tribe from claims of all things that his people worship Saturn.

Ian MalcolmThat's what we are here to discuss. Now, it's going to be kind of curious because we've got a whole lot of different accusations that have flown around. Most recently, one of the beloved, I will bring her up if she is able to as co-host, The unbelievably wonderful Miss Mandy, who had a very... I think Mandy has had, of our click here, has had the most viral posts of anybody, because it seems like every other week she is just embarrassing Grok by bringing up some very uncomfortable facts.

Ian Malcolmand if I'm not mistaken having in some cases 1, 2, 10, 15, 25 million impressions on this application bringing some of the truth about the usual or shall I call them the very unusual suspects.

Ian MalcolmAnd yet it looks awfully familiar to the thing that she's holding in her profile picture there, which is emblazed. But we are going to be welcomed by her and a whole bunch of wonderful individuals out in the audience. I want to thank everybody for being here. I want to thank our two titans. that are going to be in the slugfest here.

Ian MalcolmThis is going to be a cage match, if you will, because after all, who could better present some uncomfortable views on the JQ than the MajorMarcionite himself, who did an unbelievable space with us in which he presented essentially the idea that Christianity should throw out the Old Testament. I don't want to overstate, but it's essentially something of that variety, and went into the history that is one of the oldest

Ian MalcolmOur good friend. He is my favorite of the supremacists of the Jewish varietal on this application. He is always polite. He is mostly always friendly. It's always very funny for what it's worth. And if nothing else, he is the truest of the Jewish supremacists. And I say truest because whenever pressed on any of these issues, he's one of the few, if not the only.

Ian MalcolmI don't even know if the term supremacist is fair of him because I think he's also an individual that cares about humanity. I think he does care about truth. He just sees the world in a different way than us. And so, and when I say us, I should also be specific, those that are more critical of, let's just say, the idea of Jewish supremacy in Israel, right?

Ian MalcolmBut he has always approached things in good faith. And so I am very excited for this. We did, so JoAnn and I worked in the back channels with both MajorMarcionite as well as Mr. Yitz. They have agreed on some ground rules for the intellectual slugfest. So both of them will be given 10 full minutes to present essentially their overarching thesis on this subject.

Ian MalcolmWe are going to hear from the major on how he believes that at the end of the day, this group of people, that they are literally worshipping Saturn, either the planet or what it represents.

Ian Malcolmthe difference will be at least for the next hour maybe hour and a half maybe two hours depending on how this goes Thank you so much for joining us today.

Ian MalcolmThank you so much for joining us.

Ian MalcolmThere's been some little back and forth with some little colorful language. I think that's gonna be part of the fun. They know exactly what they're walking into. And so there's gonna be no attempts by either side. on any gotchas. I'm not going to try and undermine any positions, and neither myself, Mandy, nor JoAnn, nor would I recommend anybody on this panel try to suggest any piece or to position a question that is aimed to undermine Yitz, who is coming here in good faith.

Ian MalcolmLet's try to keep this very, very, all the punches above the belt, intellectually speaking, as we get ready. to rumble. And so that is my best little rendition of a, I think it was Michael Buffer was his name. If I'm wrong on that, please put it into the purple pill. I think he might've actually died and his brother might've taken over for him if I'm not mistaken.

Ian MalcolmBut before we get into that battle of the wits with some body slams and some big elbow drops from the top ropes, Miss Mandy, Miss Joanne, anything that I might have left off of our introduction here?

@joann_marieNo, it was perfect. I was laughing so much, Ian. Thank you so much for hosting and Mandy for co-hosting. Gids and Marcionite, I'm really excited for this. And guys, please repost this space. And if you guys go through it, I will also repost it. Also bookmark it. It helps so much with the algorithm. Follow Ian, Mandy, GoyimUnited, Marcionite, Gids, everyone here.

@joann_marieThank you. And also, allegedly Danko is down in the listener who has put all of Ian Malcolm's spaces on Instagram. Rumble, Spotify, IanMalcolm84, Apple Podcasts, and... Oh my God, MalcolmSpaces84. And thank you so much. Thank you. You're an absolute superstar. So thank you. And I'm very excited.

@speakerMandy, welcome. How are you? Thank you so much. I'm so excited about this space. And thank you, Ian and JoAnn, for having me. That was amazing intro music. So great. Excellent job, JoAnn. I'm excited to hear this debate, and I'm hoping for a really good, respectful debate that we can all learn from. And I'm completely open to learning from everybody here.

@speakerSo I actually have respect for Yitz, even though we're completely on the opposite side of the spectrum. But I have respect for you, Yitz, that you decided to do this. and obviously on the other side of the coin too. So I won't be interjecting with any nasty language or anything. And I hope that we can, as Ian said, keep it above the belt and just have a respectful debate so we can really flesh out our ideas and see what the true winner is if there is one.

@speakerAnd yeah, I'm just excited about it. So thank you for having me.

Ian MalcolmNo, absolutely. And two wonderful individuals. And I'm very confident in this because the major was absolutely spectacular in the space that we did with him. And Yitz is one of the absolute greats when it comes to presenting the alternative side of the aisle and doing so in a way that is not just...

Ian MalcolmSo let's do this to start things off. And Yitz, like I said, so what we'll do, we will go to the major first and foremost. He will have 10 minutes to lay out his perspective on what exactly is the history, who is the deity, why is that the case, etc. And then we will turn things over to Mr. Yitz not to refute the major's positioning, but rather to present that which is his own.

Ian MalcolmThank you so much for watching.

Ian MalcolmI'm so excited for this.

@joann_marieAnd yeah, no, please do not use the soundboard. And I will come up with something. Thank you, Ann. I have the timer ready.

Ian MalcolmPerfect. So JoAnn's got the timer. I saw Yitz just disconnect. I'm sure he's having a little connectivity issue. We'll get him back up here in just a moment. But before, or as we do, why don't we go to Mr. Major for his initial statement and positioning?

@marcionite144adHello Ian, Shalom from my home. I can't say how great of a mitzvah it is to be with all you today.

@joann_marieShalom.

@marcionite144adAnd to, you know, talk about a topic so important as, you know, the God of the Hebrews versus the God of Jesus and how, you know, the greatest trick the devil's ever played was convincing the world that somehow he was, you know, God of Jesus is a good, you know... Thank you for joining us.

@marcionite144adWhen we see the Jews beating their pets to death with large sticks, understand that this is what Yahweh commands. For the God the Jews are worshiping, He's of their own construction who perfectly mirrors their spirit because He is a manifestation of their hopes and desires as well as a fictional character whose identity has fluctuated with every new culture and nation the Jews have come across.

@marcionite144adBecause the Jews started out as a desert-bound tribal warlords, they have always experienced a sense of inadequacy while living within or next to great empires like Babylon, Egypt, and those controlled by the Greeks. And with every new empire the Jews have been exposed to, the powers, characteristics, and even the name of their god has changed in order to compete with the gods whose temples, statues, and monuments appeared greater all around them.

@marcionite144adFor each of these nations, the Jews borrowed new astrological, philosophical meaning to support their own God's seemingly inadequate history, which, like a Gaza border, has shifted throughout his extensive existence. While my argument tonight, though, is not so much as history.

@marcionite144adEl was the chief god of the Canaanite pantheon who, like his son Baal, was deeply tied to Saturn, whose symbols, numeric values, and theophorics are still deeply ingrained within Judaism as it is presented today, which uses Saturn symbolism like a prostitute uses the backseat of a car. For instance, the last Jew who proclaimed himself Messiah and urged his followers to invert the Ten Commandments

@marcionite144adHe viewed sin as a holy act of righteousness. His very name in Hebrew was Sabbatai Saturn. Sabbatai got it, you know, because... Judaism is a form of Gnostic tradition, but unlike the Gnostics, modern Jews choose the Saturnian adversarial god who was rejected by the traditional Gnostics and seemingly did so because of the land and riches that Yahweh offers them, willfully ignoring the spiritual wealth that comes with true Gnosis.

@marcionite144adFrom the flag that flies over their country to the six-pointed star embroidered upon their goofy little hats, Saturn's Curses always hovering above them, serving as a satanic hex, which forever keeps their minds and awareness in prison within the limitations, the confines of the physical world. For the Jews, Saturn's day is their holiest day of the week, because that is the sixth day of the week, and Saturn being that it's the sixth planet from the sun.

@marcionite144adSix, in a sense, is an astronomically significant number to the Jews, and it's... Entirely why early Christians regarded 666 as the mark of the beast. Early Christians recognized the occult numerical values hidden within the star of Ephraim, which contains two overlapping triangles with each of its angles totaling 60 degrees.

@marcionite144adThe star itself, to early Christians, was the mark of the beast. You see, according to early Christians, Judaism was the antithesis of everything Jesus taught and believed. And when you read the words of Saturn, El Yahweh, It's easy to understand why they held this belief because all throughout the Torah, Yahweh proves that he is not all graceful.

@marcionite144adHe proves that he is not all knowing and he proves that he does not, as Jesus described, love all his children equally.

@marcionite144adIn Isaiah 45.7, for instance, Yahweh states, I form the light and the darkness. I make peace and create evil. I, the Lord, do all these things. Yahweh, in this instance, Admits that he is the creator of evil.

@marcionite144adOne second. My fucking God, how did I fuck up? Yeah.

@marcionite144adSorry. In Samuel 15, 11, Yahweh states that he regrets making man and that he... What the fuck? I'm sorry, I messed up my notes, dude. I messed up my notes. This is so not happening.

Ian MalcolmIt's okay. Take a moment.

@marcionite144adIn Samuel 15, 11, Yahweh states that he regrets that he made Saul king for he has turned his back on me and failed to perform my commandments. If Yahweh is all-knowing, why would he make mistakes? In Genesis, Yahweh called out to Adam, where are you? I mean, if he's omnipresent, why is he asking where Adam is? Why can't he keep track of a naked man in a garden?

@marcionite144adIn Genesis 6, 7, Yahweh read it making a man, so he declares that,

@marcionite144adIn the Apocalypse of Adam, it states that humans got too smart and refused to worship Yahweh, and that's why he killed them. Here, give me one more second. I'm sorry. I had all this laid out beautifully, and I really terribly messed up.

@marcionite144adHere we go. In Exodus 12, if Yahweh is such a holy God and He's all-loving, all-caring, why would He be so genocidal? Because in Exodus 12, Yahweh sanctions the killing of every firstborn child in Egypt. In Leviticus 26, Yahweh kills innocent children via she-bears for simply making fun of a bald man's head. In Judges 21, Yahweh sanctions the rape and murder of a nearby city.

@marcionite144adIn Deuteronomy 22, Yahweh commands that women who marry but are not virgins should be put to death. In Deuteronomy 13, Yahweh commands his followers to kill their entire family if one of them dares to try and convert them to a different religion. In Deuteronomy 17, Yahweh commands you to kill all pagans. Leviticus 24, Yahweh commands you to kill all blasphemers.

@marcionite144adDeuteronomy 18, Yahweh commands that a man should be killed if he gives the wrong prediction. In Exodus 31, Yahweh says to kill anyone who works on the Sabbath. On Leviticus 2, Yahweh sanctions the killing of children who swear at their parents. In Deuteronomy 22, Yahweh sanctions the killing of adulterers. In Deuteronomy 21, Yahweh sanctions the rape of female prisoners.

@marcionite144adIn Judges 5, Yahweh sanctions the rape and pillaging of nearby cities. In Deuteronomy 17, Yahweh sanctions the killing of anyone who disagrees with his priests or judges. In Judges 11, Yahweh accepts a virgin child as a sacrifice. In Leviticus 25, Yahweh approves of slavery. In Exodus 21, Yahweh approves of sex slavery.

@marcionite144adIn Numbers 31, Yahweh sanctions the rape and genocide of Mennonites. and demanding that only the virgin should be kept as sex slaves. In Genesis 19, Yahweh destroys Sodom and Gomorrah via genocide. In Deuteronomy 7, Yahweh approves of genocide. In Samuel 12, Yahweh murders an innocent child by giving him a disease. In Leviticus 20, Yahweh sanctions the killing of fortune tellers and psychics.

@marcionite144adIn Exodus 22, Yahweh sanctions the killing of infidels. In Chronicles 15, Yahweh sanctions the killing... Again, sanctions the killing of infidels. In Zechariah 13, Yahweh sanctions the killing of all non-Jewish prophets. In Deuteronomy 13, Yahweh states that if you find anyone in a city who worships a different god, you should put to death the entire city.

@marcionite144adAnd Samuel 6, Yahweh kills 50,000 people for looking into the Ark of the Covenant. In Numbers 15, Yahweh sanctions the killing of a man who picked up a stick in the woods. In Isaiah 14, Yahweh sanctions the killing of children for crimes of their parents. In Josiah 9, Yahweh sanctions the killing of children.

@joann_marieTime. Thank you so much. That was it?

@marcionite144adOkay. Yep.

@joann_marieYeah, we can go back to it. That was amazing.

Ian MalcolmJoAnn didn't use the soundboard. It's okay. No worries, no worries. I got so many more.

@joann_marieI'm not going to break my own rules, Ian.

Ian MalcolmNo, I love that. And I also want to give a massive welcome to Mr. Christopher Wood, who is with us, a man of wonderful faith. He is absolutely up here as a honorary co-host. And Chris, we are in for a lot of excitement as we go through this debate with the one and only Mr. Martianite and Yitz. And what's interesting is for many Christians, some of the suggestions that are made here by Martianite are going to be very antagonistic or antithetical to your own worldview, right?

Ian MalcolmThis is not a bend that I take on the faith by any means. And if I look at the...

Ian MalcolmI want you to be kind of...

Ian MalcolmLet's say, not cautious of, but let's say to acknowledge the timing and just make sure that you get through your opening statement. What we will do is, Marcionite, because I know you were looking for a couple of your notes, we'll do a supplemental aspect to this first position. And so we'll let Yitz go for his 10 minutes on a bridge, so nobody interrupts.

Ian MalcolmWe'll then go back to Mr. Marcionite if he wants to add a supplemental three minutes to the first portion. And similarly, Yitz can then use that three minutes after Marcionite if he wants to add anything that he's not able to in his first will then open things up to a next round of questions. And I just also wanted to call out not only my enthusiasm for Mr. Christopher Woods to be here, but also we have Mr. History Media, who is an absolute scholar when it comes to religiosity.

Ian MalcolmSo really excited to have him here. There might be some pieces where we might go to him to kind of fact check his view versus both individuals, because as I understand it, he doesn't necessarily agree with the Martianite positioning around Christianity. So he'll have a difference of opinion there. And he'll certainly have one when it comes to Yitz and some of his positioning.

Ian MalcolmSo we will now go. JoAnn, if you want to reset the timer for 10 minutes. I think we're at the 58-minute mark here, roughly.

@theleaderofusaReal quick, I just want to say I'm so thankful to be here. Sorry I'm late. It's been a super hectic day, but God bless. And wow, there's going to be a debate going on between Yitz and you said Mr. Martian. I forgot his name. But yeah, looking forward to it. It's going to be a great time.

@joann_marieYou missed the intro, it was amazing. Ian was making the, are you ready? That voice, it was hilarious.

Ian MalcolmYep, and we've got the Yitz, who Mr... So Marcionite, not the Martians as in outer space, but according to Mr. Marcionite, he thinks that the Jews worship something from outer space and just made a very compelling argument there on Saturn. We'll come back to that in his three-minute segment. But Mr. Yitz, that brings us roughly to the top of the hour here.

Ian MalcolmSo why don't we presume roughly 10 minutes on a bridge just to give you a rough idea. JoAnn, we'll start the timer. And Mr. Yitz, your position on who is it that the Jews of yesterday and today worship?

@yitzhak_zionistYes, thank you for giving me the opportunity to have this discussion. So I will open the 10 minutes by first going through prophecy in the Torah and in the Tanakh. Leviticus 26 famously says that if we violate the British Alarm, the eternal covenant, we will be scattered across the globe. But it says that if we are faithful to the mitzvot, everything will be fine.

@yitzhak_zionistOf course, Ezekiel 36 expands the promise, and it says that Hesam essentially will return us to Eretz Israel, regardless if we deserve it or not, simply because it will serve as a Kiddush Hesam, to sanctify his holy name. Of course, I've mentioned multiple times Jeremiah 31, where it states that the laws of physics would have to change before Hesam would be born again.

@yitzhak_zionistAnd we all know that God doesn't lie. It even says that Ephraim, in Ezekiel's famous Dry Bones prophecy, says that Ephraim, which is a stand-in for all the Ten Lost Tribes, will return as well. So, everyone will come back home, as was promised. Of course, Ezekiel 36 says that the land will be barren and desolate while we're away.

@yitzhak_zionistThat's indeed what happened. When the Ottomans were in charge, the Ottoman Turks, they deforested Israel by 75%. The topsoil eroded by three feet in some areas. And when Mark Twain famously visited after the Civil War, he was able to walk around Jerusalem within 60 minutes, how sparsely populated it was, how small and meager Holy Jerusalem was at that time.

@yitzhak_zionistToday, of course, the JNF has planted over 260 million trees, and the land thrives, both economically, based on the environment, because it's responding to its people, the people who have returned. Now, these are broad-stroke prophecies, some of them vague, some of them a little more, what's the term, like lifted. Some of them are much more concrete-like.

@yitzhak_zionistThe land being desolate. If Hussam wasn't the god of the universe, how could he possibly be able to do such a thing? And only allowed to strive for true return. But it gets deeper. It gets very much more deeper. You see, this is incredible proof. Proof I'm about to bring now is irrefutable and completely undeniable. The Talmud in 797a states that the world will exist

@yitzhak_zionistin its current form for about 6,000 years, and it divides human history into three distinct 2,000-year epochs. In his commentary to Recite Genesis 2-3, Nachmanides, the Ramban, he zoomed in on this concept, and he decided to map out all seven days of creation onto the specific millennia of world history. So the creation account that we see here...

@yitzhak_zionistIt's not meant to be taken literally. It's not that Hashem walks in a garden, per se, and doesn't know where Adam is. It's a metaphor. And what is the metaphor? On day one, light, the creation of Adam, who was considered the light of the world. That lasts 4,000 years. Each day is 1,000 years in human history. Day two, it says that God divided the waters.

@yitzhak_zionistWhat happened there? It was the era of the flood. The flood wiped out the wicked. It was not a genocide. It was rooting out those who were evil. Day three, plant life. It's a giving of the Torah. The Torah is famously called a tree of life in the book of Proverbs, for example. Day four, the creation of the celestial bodies.

@yitzhak_zionistOf course, that links the temples. The holy temple, the first to be at Mekdas, is linked to the sun. Because it was there that the Divine Presence rested, the Serena. And then the second temple is linked to the moon. There were fewer miracles that occurred there. So we can see that the sun and the moon were linked clearly to the temples.

@yitzhak_zionistDay five, aquatic life. Once we, the Jewish people, were scattered in exile, we were hunted down like prey by the nations. And then on day six, the creation of mammals and man. Equation of mammals, of course, is a much more brutal beast than this. They're culminated, of course, in Husserl, in the Holocaust, when one sword of global jewelry perished, including 1.5 million children.

@yitzhak_zionistA true genocide. We have still yet to recover from those wounds. So, but of course, that will end when a messiah arrives and restores a cosmic order to the universe. And then of course, Day 7 is the final millennium to the universal rest and spiritual perfection of Sabbat. And that is... One second. One second.

@joann_marieOh no, geez!

@yitzhak_zionistI apologize for that. Can you pause my timer for the moment, please?

Ian MalcolmWe can't pause, and I say this because I know that Major was looking for his notes as well, but we will certainly respect the situation, and we can give another three minutes after.

@yitzhak_zionistOkay, yes, thank you. So the point is that day seven is the Sabbat. That's when Hussam, God, wrested from everything he did. That debunks right there anything about Saturn. It's clearly the concept of the weekend. Without the Torah, we wouldn't have the concept of the weekend. In the ancient days, everybody just walked till they dropped, essentially.

@yitzhak_zionistThere was no rest, no break of any kind. But it is important to mention, of course, that in the last two millennium, the current one we are in, in the previous thousand years, was the age in which, if we melted such, the Siak could arrive at any moment. But if we don't melt it, then things will have to run their proper course until approximately about 213 years from now.

@yitzhak_zionistSo...

@yitzhak_zionistWhere did the Rambam get this idea that a thousand years is a day? And from Genesis, he got it from Psalm 94, which says a thousand human years equals one divine day. So if we break a 24-hour divine day down, the math unfolds like this. You have a thousand human years, you divide it by 24 divine years, it equals 41.667 human years per divine hour.

@yitzhak_zionistSo that's about 41 years and 8 months. Now the Hebrew calendar in a 24-hour day begins with a nightfall, obviously. So you have to split the millennium into two. Two equal 12-hour halves. So you have 500 years of night, followed by 500 years of day. Then Hadron38a from the Talmud, it adds that Adam was created on the sixth day.

@yitzhak_zionistIt says that he received a soul on the fifth hour of that daytime. So, that will translate to the 17th hour of an overall 24-hour cycle. So, since we're in the 6th millennium, and since it represents the dawn of the Messianic era, when does the precise infusion of the soul occur? Here's the math. 17 hours times 41.667 years equals 708.339 years.

@yitzhak_zionistBecause we are calculating the lapse time,

@yitzhak_zionistWithin the 6th millennium, which spans the Hebrew years 5000 to 6000, we add these elapsed time years to the base year of 5000. So now the math is 5000 plus 708.339 equals 5708. 5708. That is the Gregorian equivalent to May 2nd, 1948. Just 12 days shy when David Ben-Gurion declared Israeli independence on May 14th.

@yitzhak_zionistNow, of course, the Gregorian calendar didn't exist in the time of the Rambam. It wouldn't exist for another 312 years, so after his death. So we're going to calculate, we do the math within, strictly within the confines of the Hebrew calculator. And of course, 5708 was a leap year, so the 17th hour of the day would therefore land on January 21st, 1948.

@yitzhak_zionistHowever, this is not a problem, because the whole thing the Rambam was trying to do was not to map out the Pacific Day, but to map out... Okay, I'll finish this, and then I'll get to my next proof after. So the Rambam was trying to map out epochs. So the foundational miracle remains unchanged. May 14th, 1948, falls squarely within the Hebrew year 5708.

@yitzhak_zionistSo just as the soul was fused into Adam at that exact cosmic hour on the sixth day, so is the soul of the Jewish nation weaved back into the land of Israel in the corresponding year of the sixth millennium. And then we wonder why David Ben-Gurion famously said, in Israel, in order to be a realist, you must first believe in miracles, because it is a miracle.

@yitzhak_zionistWe have a divine date of the very year we would rise back up and reclaim our sovereignty over our homeland. And that is a true blessing. Thank you. Excellent timing, Jets.

Ian MalcolmWow. Wow. So not only polite, but also punctual. Jets always on time. And I say that this time with the timer. Well done, Mr. Jets. That was very, very, very, very meticulously presented, even with the... Yeah, it's, uh...

@marcionite144adOkay, all right, yeah. So as I'm going through these lists, please, you know, ask yourselves, you know, is this something that the God of Jesus would do? You know, is this something that, you know, an all-loving, all-caring, all-knowing God, you know, would do to, you know, his children, which he all loves equally? You know, in Exodus 9-12,

@marcionite144adand where he describes how these Canaanite tribesmen, the predecessor to the modern Hebrews, they were known as the Hibiru, and they conquered half of Egypt all the way up to the Middle Kingdom and held it for about a year. And then the Egyptians got sick of it, sick of them burning all the sacred animals, tearing down all their sacred monuments, and they ran them out of Egypt.

@marcionite144adAnd I think it was like a week's time, ran them all the way up past Syria, past modern-day Israel,

@marcionite144adI mean, that just doesn't make sense. The entire Hebrew Bible is one giant lie. The Jews weren't actually worshipping a monotheistic god, a single god, until the end of the first century. After the Syrians destroyed their, what was it, the second temple? No, the first temple. The Jews escaped to the island of Elephantine.

@marcionite144adAnd there was thousands and thousands of papyri that were collected on this island. And they even wrote back to Israel and requested to build a first, second temple. And, you know, none of these writings has it ever detailed, you know, any mention of Moses, Solomon, Jacob, Abraham. These characters just absolutely didn't exist to them at that time frame.

@marcionite144adWhat we're discovering is that the Jews made up their Torah, you know, whole cloth out of tails and partial fragments after being exposed to Alexander the Great when he was conquering all of the Canaanite territories. They were able to enter into the Library of Alexandria and they were exposed to all these great fables and all these great stories of all these other cultures.

@marcionite144adAnd so they decided to craft for themselves out of all this great Gnostic history and whatnot, a solid... I'm sorry, I hate this bell thing. They were able to craft for themselves...

Ian Malcolmand what we'll do, because JoAnn's just too polite and she cannot do the soundboard. It doesn't work. So instead, what we'll do is, JoAnn, so each time, if you could just give a subtle little friendly reminder when people have a minute left and then jump in when we get to the final buzzer, if you will. And I just love that JoAnn's so polite.

Ian MalcolmShe's like, it's time now.

Speaker 1It's time.

Ian MalcolmBut let's go. But it works. It does work. And after this round, we'll go and we'll see if Mr. Christopher wants to play with the soundboard just to spice it up a little bit. But why don't we go to Mr. Yitz. So he's got four. Yitz, you've got four minutes to continue on your opening statement. And again, it should not be aimed at attacking anything that Major said, but rather just your position.

@yitzhak_zionistYes, but Ian, we will do cross-examination.

Ian MalcolmOh, you get ready. It's going to happen.

@yitzhak_zionistIt's gonna be so spicy, dudes!

@joann_marieSo spicy!

@yitzhak_zionistOkay. So the second presentation I was going to present would probably also take 10 minutes, so I'm going to cut it short by just summarizing it the best that I can. So it happened to be that it was going to cover the exodus, and Marcy and I claimed the exodus didn't happen. Well, let's see about that. Let's see what the records show.

@yitzhak_zionistSo in 1274 BCE, Ramesses II, Ramesses the Great, has a famous battle with the Hittites. And it's meant to, most scholars consider it a draw. But he erects multiple poems of his victories, multiple inscriptions, everywhere, all over Egypt. This is not like the Arch of Titus with the Romans, where Titus just built one arch to celebrate his victory over us, the Jews.

@yitzhak_zionistThis is all over Egypt, including, of course, Bath Reliefs, depicting frame by frame what happened. Now, interesting about this is that there are striking parallels. In the Kadesh poem, between Exodus 14 and 15. For one, the Kadesh poem opens up with the Hittites, the Hittite chariots, embossing Ramses. The same thing happens to the Israelites.

@yitzhak_zionistThey were ambushed on their way into the Sea of Reeds. Then, in both accounts, the leaders of the terrified crowds cry out for divine assistance, and they prompt a divine figure to fight on their behalf. In Ramses' case, he simply assumes... Divine qualities and strength. Then, both account so, the enemy realizes that they are contending with a superior force, and that resistance is futile, so it prompts them to flee the battlefield.

@yitzhak_zionistAs a result, both enemies, the Ramesses chariots, and in the case of the Battle of Kedess, the Hittites, they drown in bodies of water. So, in Ramsay's case, he just slays them in a river, essentially. He slays them himself. So, in both cases, there are songs of praise, saying that you are unequaled in battle, you have no peer.

@yitzhak_zionistOne more minute? Okay, I'll finish it up, at least part of this argument. And then, of course, both texts use the strong arm motif. which was never used again in Tanakh, never used again in any other culture except of Egypt. So we have massive parallels in both accounts. And, you know, in any other battle account, you could maybe find half of these narrative motifs.

@yitzhak_zionistSo this is incredible proof that the children of Israel, during the Exodus in the 1200s, they knew about Ramesses. They patented the text specifically. After the cadets poem, it was plagiarized and appropriated to trust it on its head to out-farewell the farewell, essentially. And then I have a second part to that argument as well.

Ian MalcolmBut, yes. Very well done, Mr. Yitz. And like I promised everybody in the audience, very politely delivered.

Ian MalcolmWait, are you there? Yeah, I'm here.

@marcionite144adAll right.

@theleaderofusaYep. It says reconnecting for me, so I just want to make sure I'm still live.

Ian MalcolmYep. We got you.

@theleaderofusaAll right. Okay. Can you repeat the instructions? I'm going to keep track of the five minute. I just pulled up my timer here.

Ian MalcolmPerfect. You got the five minute timer. And so what we'll do is when they get to the... One minute left, Mark, if you could give some kind of sound effect, whether it's with a soundboard or just a verbal notification. That way they know they've got 60 additional seconds. And then at the five-minute mark, we will conclude that round with whatever sound effect you choose to enter in.

Ian MalcolmAnd so that way we'll just keep everybody on that five-minute window. And with that being said, so Mr. Major, again, what is the best five-minute counterpoint that you would make to anything that Mr. Yitz has said so far?

@marcionite144adI'd love to point out the fact that just because Jews have woven in some historical events into their fundamental tale, their narrative, doesn't necessarily mean that it happened exactly the way that the Jews said it did. World War II is a great example of that. But prior to 200 BCE, the Jews were worshipping seven different gods.

@marcionite144adAnd prior to 400 BCE, the Jews were worshipping, I think it was the Canaanite tribes were worshipping up to 237 different gods. It wasn't until the end of the second century that Jews even came around to creating for themselves a monotheistic religion. And all throughout that time... You know, they were sacrificing animals and children and people to the, you know, there are multiple gods, there are multitude of gods who are all, you know, funny.

@marcionite144adThey were all worshipped to the exact same woman. She had to have, you know, gotten around to get with that many different gods. But, yeah, prior to the second century, they were worshipping seven different gods. So, you know, I don't understand, you know, which god was Moses worshipping because... At that time, you know, Yahweh wasn't even created.

@marcionite144adThe first time Yahweh was even mentioned was in their Torah, which wasn't created until the end of the second century. You know, prior to that second century, Mark, there was no mentions of Moses. There was no mentions of Abraham. There was no mentions of Jacob. These figures just didn't exist. And there's thousands and thousands of these writings that the Elephantine Jewish community was writing back and forth with Jerusalem.

@marcionite144adAnd nowhere in these texts do they mention anything of all

@marcionite144adThank you so much for joining us.

@marcionite144adBaha'u'llah is also heavily associated with Saturn. Baha'u'llah was the god that they were worshipping before the god of Muhammad introduced. It's also consequently the god of the Canaanites. It's also the god of the Phoenicians. All throughout history, all the earliest recollections of God have all been associated with Saturn.

@marcionite144adFrom what I understand, Saturn was actually in a different place to the cosmos. And it supposedly was a sun-type character. It gave off its own light. And to this day, Saturn is the only planet in the universe that gives off more energy than it receives from the sun. But, you know, what's ironic is that, you know, Christians, the very first Christians, they identified the fact that Saturn is the demiurge, what they call the creator god, because, you know, he created us and trapped us in this physical world, this Saturnian prison.

@marcionite144adThey recognize this fact, and that's why they created Christianity. Christianity was created to be the antithesis of this God and the materialistic confines that he sets forth for those who follow him. Go ahead. I appreciate it. Thanks. I hate that timer. I really do.

@theleaderofusaThat was the one-minute warning that Ian told me to give. Oh, God, yes. You got one minute.

@joann_marieSee, you need to be more gentle, Christopher.

@theleaderofusaWhoa, whoa, whoa, gentle. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We weren't getting you confused because now I have questions about what are we referring to. I was ringing a bell.

@joann_marieJust like one minute.

@marcionite144adYeah, it's really sad that, you know, this war of Saturn has been, you know, taking place for a long time, you know, all throughout history. The early Christian history specifically, you know, Christians identified the fact that the God of the Torah was a satanic God and you listen to his words, you know, and all the things that he does, you know, he's genocidal.

@marcionite144adHe commands them to kill everything down to their dogs and cats. I mean, if you know Jesus, you know, you know the spirit that he inspires in his followers, you would understand that his God would never say such a thing. You know, in Samuel 15, 3, he says, no, go attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belong to them.

@marcionite144adDo not spare them. Put... Put to death the men, women, and children, the infants, cattle, sheep, camels, and donkeys. I mean, even the camels and donkeys? In Deuteronomy 2016, he says, Do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Pazirites, the Hivites, and the Jubalites, as the Lord your God commands you.

Ian MalcolmThat was a little spicy on the end. That was a good bell ringing. Which would bring us, so again, so that was Major's attempt to undercut some of the ideas shared by Mr. Yitz. We will now flip the script and go to Mr. Yitz for some of his aggressions, if you will, on not the person, but rather the ideas shared by the Major.

Ian MalcolmSo once again, he will have five minutes. Chris will give the one-minute warning, and that will give an additional 60 seconds, yes.

@yitzhak_zionistYes, thank you. First off, I want to start by saying the following. Sama Israel Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad What does Echad mean?

@joann_marieIt means one.

@yitzhak_zionistIt was no, no, no. This is the famous, this is our prayer, Sama Israel, Signifying that there was only one god. And yes, there are different names for this one god, but many Canaanite deities had different names for their gods. So this is nothing novel. What this is, is, with all due respect, a misunderstanding of the ancient, the texts of the ancient Near East.

@yitzhak_zionistWhen you misunderstand the context in which the Torah was written, proving, once again, it could only have been written around that time, the late second millennium, When you divorce it from that, you have things like repetition. You have things like contradictions. You have non-chronological order. And you don't understand what's going on.

@yitzhak_zionistClearly, this must have been stitched together by competing ideologies in the time of Ezra, perhaps. Or perhaps in the time of Josiah. But this is not the case. Not the case at all. We can start my first main point about the Pesach letter, from who was the Lyme to the Elephantine Gelsen, the island. This Pesach letter is very famous because it debunks what Marcionite was saying a moment ago.

@yitzhak_zionistThey were asking who was the Lyme, they were asking the Kohanim, how do we absorb Passover? That's what was going on there. Now, you may ask... Even if Elephantine's trying to get their instructions from Jerusalem, why are they asking anything from Jerusalem at all? Shouldn't they know the Torah? And the answer is very incredible, that not many people are aware of this.

@yitzhak_zionistThere's a recent book by a gentleman named Drew Johnson. He's a Christian. It's called something like the Biblical Law, something of that nature. And it's written for Christians in mind. I highly recommend it to anyone listening to this. Basically, what he outlines, and what many rabbis have outlined previously before him, is that the laws in the Torah were never meant to be aesthetic, like the code of Hammurabi that they were emulated from.

@yitzhak_zionistIn fact, there's concrete examples where the Torah specifically, again, specifically, borrows word for word from Middle Assyrian law, for example. So, just like the code from a rabbi, the Torah was meant to change. That's why, for example, when Ruth married Boaz, Boaz had to also redeem the land as part of the love-right marriage.

@yitzhak_zionistYou will not find that in the written Torah. You will not find anything about redeeming property in a love-right marriage. That's why, as another example, the famous commandment mitzvah in the Torah, where if you steal... A cattle or donkey or a sheep, you have to pay fourfold in restitution. But in King David's time, when Nathan proposed this background to David, because after what he had done was bat Seba's husband having killed him, he proposed the allegory, he proposed the same law.

@yitzhak_zionistAnd he changed it. He said it was a rich man instead who was healthy, who wasn't starving, and yet he stole. He stole the animal from a poor man. That's all he had in the world. What did David say? David said he has to pay fourfold for the animal, but he also should be put to death. Why would David say this? Did he not know the Torah?

@yitzhak_zionistClearly, the Torah was always meant to be updated down the generations. It was meant to be applied to different circumstances. That's why the Book of Devarim, Deuteronomy, is the very first instance of the oral Torah. That's why the Decalogue is different. The Decalogue, the Ten Commandments, is different compared to Exodus and Numbers and to Deuteronomy.

@yitzhak_zionistThat's why many laws and narratives are different. Because it was meant to change. Similarly, Numbers are symbolic. You can't say 600,000 fighting-age men left Egypt to the Levant. That's clearly not the case. There are multiple examples I can get into that later on. He mentioned slavery, slavery. I suppose I will wait for slavery for the next cross-examination because actually that would go into quite a few details.

@yitzhak_zionistBut thank you for now.

Ian MalcolmAnd I hope there's a second cross-examination. It's coming in hot there. He's calling his shot for his next positioning here, which will be curious. And so I've been going to Marcionite first on these last couple of questions. This time we are going to go to Mr. Yitz first. We're going to flip the order here. And the question is going to be, Mr. Yitz, for you.

Ian MalcolmSo we've allowed for a cross-examination and challenging of ideas. I want to get a three-minute timer set with either Christopher or JoAnn. And Yitz, the question is going to be, of the things that you find to be incorrect in Major's framing, right, of the things that he has shared, What is the one thing that you can say with certainty that you can disprove that would therefore make us question some of the other things that he has said?

Ian MalcolmSo yes, what your challenge is, what one thing or idea or concept or historical claim would you suggest is completely wrong and how would you prove that?

@yitzhak_zionistYes, I would like to quickly try to tackle two if possible. Number one, I will mention the slavery issue. The argument that the Torah prescribes slavery, it does not. Eved simply means indentured servitude. And if you were indentured, it only lasted for six years. The Torah specifically says six years, or you were freed at the Yovul, at the Jubilee, if it happened to come first.

@yitzhak_zionistYou could become a servant if you had to pay off a debt, if you had to pay off a theft, if you were destitute. But you were treated more like an employee. If you lost as much as a tooth, if your owner smacked you in the face, God forbid, and you lost a tooth, If the owner, God forbid, killed you, he was executed. Does this sound like Southern Chateau slavery?

@yitzhak_zionistAnd then, of course, when the term was up, the owner had to provide generous gifts so that the person could fully rehabilitate himself. and have a good start once his life has gotten back together again. So the concept of slavery has nothing to do with the Torah. In fact, the whole central premise of the Torah is about how we were in bondage in Egypt and how we were freed.

@yitzhak_zionistSo why would Hesam have any interest in reinstituting an oppressive system like that? And the second point I want to make mention, and this totally blows his argument completely out of the water, completely, As I mentioned earlier about the documentary hypothesis, these scholars misunderstood everything about the Torah.

@yitzhak_zionistThey misunderstood that the entire Torah forms what's called a chiastic structure. So everything reflects everything else, theme by theme, parser by parser, everything. And the inflection point, it's very important, is to love your neighbor. That's the inflection, the central... Part of the Torah, as Rabbi Akiva said, and as Hillel said, the main point, you can forget about belief in God.

@yitzhak_zionistSome would rather have you abandon your faith in any gods, as long as you're a righteous person, a tzarek, as long as you're righteous, and that's fine. You love your neighbor. So this whole chiastic structure, how could multiple texts in the time of Ezra, competing ideologies, sloppily being done, You know, with repetition and everything.

@yitzhak_zionistOf course, we know that was the conventions of the ancient New East, but he claims it wasn't. How could they have formed such a beautiful, tight, elaborate, chiastic structure? And then secondly, there was such a thing called Classical Biblical Hebrew, 1 and 2. First there was Archaic Biblical Hebrew, then Classical Biblical Hebrew 1 and 2, and then Transitional, and then Late Biblical Hebrew.

@yitzhak_zionistRecent research in a recent book by Professor Aaron Horncourt, who I have had a private correspondence with, by the way, very generous gentleman. He proves that the Torah has the earliest linguistic profile of Hebrew. It's in the Torah. It's not in Kings. It's not in Samuel. So that's incredible. How could you say it was made later when it has the earliest linguistics?

@yitzhak_zionistShe hit the ding, didn't she? And you can't say it was made later?

@joann_marieNo!

@theleaderofusaWhat was all of those different sounds?

@joann_marieI was doing special effects with my mouth. I was like, bing! Why weren't you stopping, kids?

@yitzhak_zionistI apologize for that. I just had to get one more sentence.

@marcionite144adAnyway, yeah, you said something about, you know, the whole fundamental principle of the Torah is to love thy neighbor. I mean, you could not be farther off the point. I mean, the entire, you know, all throughout the Torah is nothing but, you know, go out and kill and enslave your neighbor. I mean, in Numbers 31, you know, after, I guess, Moses' troops got done, you know, raiding the Moabites, he brings back all the women and children.

@marcionite144adMoses, you know, looks at all these, you know, starving children, you know, tortured women, tells them, kill all the women and children, but save all the virgins as sex slaves. I mean, is that not the best example of loving thy neighbor? Moses is sitting here looking at all these poor little children, tells them to kill them all the way down to the infants, but save the virgins.

@marcionite144adYou gotta save the virgins.

@marcionite144adAnd what is it, 2 Samuel, he says, you know, now the spirit of Yahweh has departed from King Saul and the evil spirit from Yahweh was sent to torment him. You know, Yahweh sends out evil spirits. He's supposed to be, you know, the God of all love, but yet he's, you know, he's sending out evil spirits to go torment people.

@marcionite144adYou know, in 1 Kings, Yahweh starts, I will go forth and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all prophets. I mean, you know, is it not, you know, Satan's, you know, one of his characteristics is to deceive? I mean, you can't look at any of these verses from Yahweh and not think to yourself, like, there's no way this has anything to do with the God of Jesus.

@marcionite144adIn Judges 11.39, Yahweh makes Jephthah sacrifice his virgin daughter in exchange for a victory over the Ammonites. She asked him if she could give her a month before he kills her so that she can sulk with her friends around the castle about the fact that she would never marry. And, you know, all throughout that time, you know, Yahweh doesn't stop Jephthah and say, you know, hey, you know, I was just kidding, you know, like he did with Abraham.

@marcionite144adHe's like, you know, I was just kidding. You know, you don't have to kill her. No, he lets him go through with it and, you know, and burn her to death. And, yeah, in Genesis 4-5, Yahweh claims that...

@marcionite144adHe had no respect for Cain's offering because Yahweh loves the smell of burning flesh. Cain and Abel, they both gave Yahweh offerings. And because Cain's was vegetables, Yahweh didn't want it. He rejected it. He loves the smell of burning flesh. It is aroma that's pleasing to him. I mean, you know, what kind of God loves the smell of burning flesh?

@marcionite144adIn Leviticus 1.5, Yahweh states, You are to slaughter a young bull before your Lord and cover my altar with his blood, making sure to burn every ounce of his flesh because the flesh is an aroma that's pleasing to your Lord. You know, is it not obvious this guy is Satan? You know, in 2 Samuel 24-1, where, you know, Yahweh states that his anger was kindled against Israel.

@marcionite144adSo he ordered King David to go forth and number his people by branding them. In Chronicles, but the problem is in Chronicles, it states that Satan ordered him to go forth and number Israel. So, I mean, there's two different passages in the Torah. One where it states Yahweh...

@theleaderofusaOh boy.

@marcionite144adThat one's extra terrible.

@theleaderofusaBut we will have to impose them.

Ian MalcolmWhere people go over, we will have to impose the terribleness of the soundboard, so I apologize.

@theleaderofusaI actually appreciate the time limit, and I would support and encourage Ian to do this more often if guests feel like they want to debate or argue with one another, because it makes sure that no one goes on an unnecessary monologue, okay? And if people go on monologues, then people can't... They start to not be able to absorb all the information, but if you have each speaker...

@theleaderofusaA certain amount of time, then you make all the, you know, if someone makes all these, you know, interesting points, you have time to digest it, and then we'll come back for more, you know? So, I like it.

Ian MalcolmWell, that is kind of a comically timed suggestion, and I say it because we are now going to go to a curious three-minute round before we go to Mr. Kaplan, who has his hand up and wants to add a question to the mix. But before we go to that, We are going to open up... I want everybody to prepare yourself. We might need a soundboard feature for this one.

Ian MalcolmWhat would it be? That is supposed to be a bomb. I don't know if it sounds like one, but it is, because we are going to go to the three-minute feud of the fisticuffs, and we are going to allow an uninterrupted three minutes of back and forth with these two individuals. and what we are going to suggest is that during this there is to be no commentary that is insulting to one another rather it is going to be the ideas that you are trying to discuss and so it is going to be a free-for-all with Major and yet we'll see how this three minutes goes we might do another one of these a little bit later but afterwards we will go to Mr. Kaplan who will have a question that he will get to ask to both individuals so we're going to put a timer of three minutes on the clock

Ian MalcolmAnd we are going to allow Gitz and Major to go at it. So with that being said, ladies and gentlemen, fight!

@yitzhak_zionistOkay, so number one, Major is incorrect. Sam doesn't require your firstborn, he doesn't require your blood sacrifices. In fact, you could offer flour for your most unintentional sins. Flower, does it have any blood in it? No, absolutely not. So that's number one, misunderstanding that. Also, in terms of kill this, kill that, destroy this city, destroy this person, that's incorrect reading of what the Torah is trying to say.

@yitzhak_zionistYou can actually read the book of Joshua, for example, in Judges, or you could read passages from evilbible.com. Christopher Hitchens, Matt Delahunty, the kind of things they would say. If you read the book of Joshua, you would actually learn that what he did was a little tiny rage, and it was a gradual, very incredibly slow infiltration into the land.

@yitzhak_zionistThe Jews were outnumbered, and yes, he's right. We would have been entering, exiting from Egypt, going into Egypt at that time, in the time of Ramses. But they were going into the highlands, in which Egypt had, they didn't care about it. It didn't affect their trade. They said, the Canaanites do whatever So that's what Joshua was doing.

@yitzhak_zionistMost of the time he was based in Gilgal, for example. There was no massive conquest, massive takeover of the land, ethnic cleansing or anything. In fact, we have the famous Monopter Stele. Well, it says in about 1209, 1207, he said that he destroyed Israel and his seed is no more. We have countless examples of the ancient New East.

@yitzhak_zionistThis is why you have to look at the actual literature and not quote some passages out of context because the literature of the ancient New East shows you that this was a writing convention of the time. This is very important. Everyone, when they had a military campaign, said, and I killed all the men, women, and children, and included the oxen.

@yitzhak_zionistThat's just what you did. That's what you wrote in your military campaigns. It doesn't mean it actually happened that way.

Ian MalcolmOkay, a little... Thank you so much for joining us.

@yitzhak_zionistWait Ian, I had some minutes to speak and I thought that was the open dialogue. If he hasn't had that chance yet, I would ask for him to have that moment and then the open dialogue. Yes, that's exactly what we're going to do.

Ian MalcolmOh, good. So Major, you get two or three minutes and then we will get a sound effect and then Yitz can jump in and you guys can spar with each other if need be.

@marcionite144adExcellent. Yeah, I'd like to bring it back to the Samuel. Samuel 24, where Yahweh states that his anger was kindled against Israel, so he ordered King David to go forth and number his people. Well, why does Samuel 24 say that Yahweh's anger was...

@marcionite144adDuring their time in Egypt, the Jews have always gravitated towards these darker gods because they've always wanted to be the antithesis of those around them. So even during their time in Egypt, they merged their identity of their god with Set, who was the evil god of the Egyptians. By the time they left Egypt, the two were associated as one god.

@marcionite144adAnd even long after they left, the people continued to worship this Judeo god of darkness.

@marcionite144adYou know, even after it was at the fall of the Second Temple, there's always been this antithesis towards everybody around them. I hate this timer. It's totally messing up my jive. But yeah, I have to argue with you. It's about the fact that his God, you can't justify him ordering...

@marcionite144adYou know, he said that, you know, during the flood, he was getting rid of the evil ones. You know, was everybody evil? Even the infants? Even like the kittens? Even the dogs? I mean, he tried to kill everything. You know, this guy, you know, this God is like absolutely bloodthirsty and genocidal. The early Christians, they recognize that.

@marcionite144adThat's why the very first Bible excluded the Torah altogether because they identified it as a book dedicated to a God who was never the God of Jesus. And when you read these words, you can't help but think, my God, this God is bloodthirsty and genocidal. He's nothing like the God that Jesus has described to us. And was it Samuel?

@marcionite144adWas it in Samuel, 2 Samuel?

@marcionite144adIt says that Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark. You know, the oxen stumbled. And Yahweh strikes him dead right there on the spot. You know, what kind of God is going to strike you dead for carrying his furniture the wrong way? I mean, it's just murderous. And in 2 Kings, Elijah curses children for picking on his bald head.

@marcionite144adI already brought up that one. In Numbers 15.35, Yahweh says to Moses, Oh my God.

@marcionite144adIs that it? Is that, like, the end of, like, my time? Or is that, like, a 60-second warning?

@joann_marieNo, it was the three-minute mark.

@marcionite144adIt was the one-minute mark? Oh, God. No, three minutes. That was the end of it.

@joann_marieI didn't want to interrupt you in the one-minute one because I know you'll lose your time.

@marcionite144adIt's all right. Can we get to the point where we can just have a discussion? I'm really sick of this timer. It's, like, it's killing me.

Ian MalcolmI can't stay focused. You have three minutes to go at one another intellectually. So ready, go for it.

@yitzhak_zionistCould we have 10, Ian?

Ian MalcolmOh, they requested 10. Major, would you like 10 minutes of fury?

@marcionite144adYeah, sure. I'm down.

Ian MalcolmOkay, everyone, wait, hang on. We need to interject a... That is the sound effect for chaos, so we will see what comes out in 10 minutes.

@theleaderofusaChaos is occurring, guys. Be careful. Prepare. Put on your seatbelts. All right, so ready, set, go.

@marcionite144adIn Psalms... 137, the writer claims that, you know, happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes his head against the rocks. I mean, this is the spirit that Yahweh inspires into his followers. You know, how can you justify seizing children and dashing their heads against the rocks? And what justification do you have for that?

@yitzhak_zionistGo ahead. Yes, I have justification. What's going on there? Have you read the Messe Stelle, Major? Have you read that? You can Google it. I don't read every Jewish comic book, but go ahead. Tell me about it. It's not Jewish. It was a different king. And he slaughtered entire populations. Very similar language to what we see in Torah and later in Tanakh.

@yitzhak_zionistWhat's going on is the literary convention of the ancient Near East. Renewal hyperbolic. And he would say that you killed everyone. Everyone was destroyed. And it doesn't mean it's actually happened. If your theory is correct, as I mentioned, Pharaoh Manapta, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. I wouldn't exist as a Jew, because all of the Israelites, according to that Pharaoh, were killed.

@yitzhak_zionistThe seed is no more. That's the exact quote that Manapta said. Clearly, that's what's really going on. You mentioned the flood. Why did Hassam genocide everyone in the flood? I believe, and even Talmudic sources, everyone believed that the flood was local. It's only when you read it from a hyper-literary standpoint that you come away thinking it was global.

@yitzhak_zionistIt was not global. Everything was local. There was a famous flood that happened about 2,900 years ago. That's where the Noah story was pulled from. That's an epic of guilt. A hell of 2,000 years ago.

@marcionite144adLet's talk about today. If the Torah inspires you to love your neighbor, how are you able to basically be invited into these Palestinians' homes and then take their homes and lock their doors and point a gun in their face and start genociding them by the hundreds of thousands? How is that an example of loving thy neighbor?

@marcionite144adObviously, the spirit that Yahweh inspires in y'all is genocidal and murderous to its core, or else you wouldn't be coming up with justification after justification of why you need to kill and rape and torture Palestinians. I mean, for Christ's sakes, the Israelis are lining up at their jail cells, beating on the walls, demanding that it is their religious right to rape Palestinians and their children.

@marcionite144adI mean, how is that an example of loving your neighbor?

@yitzhak_zionistThis is an emotional argument. And I'd rather not get political here, but let me explain real quick. First off, half of Israelis are essentially half a secular. So they're not religious, and they're not studying these texts. So how do you explain that? Number two, you're incorrect. You can look at the 1929 Hebron massacre, for example.

@yitzhak_zionistThere was no Jewish state then, and yet over 60 Jews were killed. It's not true that the Palestinians invited us with open arms. If anything, they colluded with the Nazis. But I'd rather not get political. I'd rather stick.

@marcionite144adIt's theologically sound to question the Jews' spiritual sanctity if they're using these religious books as justification for even being in that land. It's the Torah, it's the God of the Torah who commands them to steal, kill, and destroy everybody including their dogs and cats in the lands that Yahweh has promised them.

@marcionite144adAnd the problem is that Yahweh has promised them every country, every kingdom on earth along with all their material wealth. That is the fundamental basis of the New World Order. Without that promise from Yahweh, the New World Order wouldn't exist and the Jews would not be killing and stealing and destroying the Palestinians today.

@marcionite144adI mean, it's all fundamentally tied. I mean, how is...

@yitzhak_zionistI'm not interested in you or anyone else.

@marcionite144adYou're not interested in proving that everything in the Torah is a bunch of bullshit, because look at you. Look at the Israelis. Look what they're doing. How is that spiritually sound? Yes. Okay.

@yitzhak_zionistI don't want to get political. I already mentioned that half of Israelis are secular, and of course about 2 million are Palestinian-Arab Israelis who even serve in the IDF. So this is just incorrect. The main point is that you don't even need religion. You can throw the Torah away, and we still have endless proof from archaeology.

@yitzhak_zionistKing David's Palace, the Pilgrim Road, for example.

@marcionite144adIs it not the promises of the Torah that has brought them to that land today? Is it not what the Torah says, the whole justification for why the Jews are in Palestine today?

@yitzhak_zionistWhether you believe in the Torah or not, that's actually where we come from. That's where we belong. That's why I have relatives right now in Israel, relatives and friends. You don't even have to be religious. Explain David Ben-Gurion, for example, Godo Meir. These were secular individuals. They had nothing to do with religion.

@yitzhak_zionistSome of them openly mocked religion. How do you explain that?

@marcionite144adAll he does is quote from the Torah. All he does is say that everything that he's doing is spiritually justified, is justified by what Yahweh promises in the Torah. How is he able to do this if it's not what Yahweh actually commands? Everything that they're doing is what Yahweh commands in the Torah. Keep that in mind.

@marcionite144adThey are in line with the commandments of the Torah. What they're doing is directly justified by the Torah.

@yitzhak_zionistSo if you're a white major, then how come there was no conflict between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, between Israel and Egypt, Israel and Jordan?

@marcionite144adBecause all their leadership, just like the United States, is all blackmailed and controlled by Israel. They have these Epstein networks in every country of the world, and they use their infinite wealth to bribe, borrow, and kill anybody that gets in their way. And again, it's all justified by the Torah.

@yitzhak_zionistThis is speculation and conspiracy, and I propose that we return to the theological debate. So you mentioned multiple times that Hassam is Satan. Of course, Has-Satan in Hebrew only means the adversary. It's not the satanic character. There is no Satan in Judaism. You mentioned what the Torah teaches. What the Torah teaches is B'tzelem Elohim.

@yitzhak_zionistThat means everyone is created in the divine image of Hassam. We even have a prayer for non-Jews, the Sim Salom. April said on your behalf. So how does this make any sense that we're trying to destroy or take over? It doesn't make any sense. You mentioned the census of David multiple times. I take a Maimonidean approach to that, that David made the census and then our enemies knew our strength and then they attacked us.

@yitzhak_zionistSo you can look at that from a rational perspective. That's the way I look at that account. And then you mentioned children being stoned to death. It's very important to mention this, that there's not one instance in the entire of Jewish history, not one time, not in the Torah, not nowhere, where a child was ever stoned to death.

@yitzhak_zionistIn fact, the whole law was meant to twist everything around. You had to have a Beth Den, and everyone in the community had to do it, and it meant to twist everything around. Wait, wait, wait.

@marcionite144adThere's no instance in Jewish history where a child's been stoned to death? Do you not call dropping a building on their heads, you know, a stoning?

@yitzhak_zionistWe're not talking about modern politics, which deals with human seals and booby traps, etc. Had Gaza built a bomb shelter like Israel, no civilians would have been harmed. Instead, they invested all their money in terror tunnels. We're talking about this. I thought this discussion was about theology, about the Bible, about the old times.

@yitzhak_zionistYou mentioned, for example, a woman, a war bride, a captive war bride, a virgin. I mean, this conversation is about the fact that your God is the devil and he's commanding you to do satanic things. There's to be nothing further from the truth if you actually read Deuteronomy 21 instead of...

@marcionite144adI'm sitting here, I'm looking at what your God commands and the people, the followers of Yahweh, they're all doing exactly as your God commands.

@yitzhak_zionistHere it's... Here's the commandment, here's the mitzvah of Deuteronomy 21, Deuteronomy 21. Once you take a captive bride, they're to have a month-long cooling-off period where you don't touch her, you don't do anything. She has to save her head, trim her nails, and mourn for her relatives. And what that does is that...

@yitzhak_zionistIt makes it okay to keep her as a slave. No, no, no. It makes the... What's the term? The perpetrator, let's use that term.

@marcionite144adYeah, I just don't see it. I mean, it's obvious to me, at least, that your God is satanic. I mean, all throughout the Tories commanding you to kill, steal, and enslave. And then you can say whatever you want about that you do this and you do that to make the slave feel at home. But when it comes down to it, you're killing, you're stealing, and you're enslaving everybody around you.

@marcionite144adAnd it hasn't stopped till this day.

@yitzhak_zionistNo, no, no. No, here's what's obvious to me, Major, with all due respect. It's obvious to me that you haven't studied with all due respect. I'm sitting here looking at the words of the Torah right now.

@marcionite144adYahweh commands you to kill, steal, and enslave. I mean, it's all throughout the Torah.

@yitzhak_zionistNo, no, no. I mentioned about slavery. The entire slave trade in the United States was run by Jews. I don't recall any of those times that they were letting their black slaves into the home to eat their food and sit down at their table. I don't recall any of those. This is conspiracy.

@marcionite144ad10 MINUTES!

@yitzhak_zionistOne final point, Ian, if I may.

Ian MalcolmThe difference between me and Major... 30 seconds for the final point for you, and then 30 seconds for Major. Thank you. And then we'll go to Mr. Kaplan.

@yitzhak_zionistOkay. Thank you. So the major difference between me and Major is that he went on evilbible.com or asked AI for all of the naughty verses in the Bible, and, you know, he's wrapping them off, yada, yada, yada. What I've done is actually what I've done a long time ago. Gone through not just the literature of the Torah, and not just rabbinic commentary, but the literature across the ancient New East.

@yitzhak_zionistHow ancient people in the surrounding context, in the 1200s, and in the years of 1800 and beyond, how they actually functioned, what they believed in, what were the literary conventions of the time. That's the difference.

Ian MalcolmAll right. And Mr. Major, any 30-second conclusion to the sparring?

@marcionite144adYeah, I... I can't help but laugh, man. He's just tap dancing. He's tap dancing like he's ducking and jiving. I mean, it's obvious all throughout the Torah that this God is bloodthirsty and genocidal. He loves the smell of burning flesh. All those children that were being sacrificed throughout the years, you said it yourself, Baal is Yahweh.

@marcionite144adThey were sacrificing all these children. They're burning altars to Yahweh. They were sacrificing children. And you can't... I can't get away from that fact.

Ian MalcolmBut that being said, let's go to Mr. Kaplan, and it is his opportunity to ask the question to both the Major and Yitz. He can also pick who it has to be responded to first, and he can also pick the amount of time that he thinks would be reasonable for them to respond to it.

@h1storymediaHey, Ian, just real quick, before we go to Hans, do you mind if I just run through just a couple fact checks? I'll hold my own opinions to myself for later. I just want to... For how long?

@h1storymediaI'm just going to go through, I think I've got four.

@yitzhak_zionistI hope he's not biased against me.

@h1storymediaWell, I think in this particular discussion I'm pretty impartial because I basically disagree with both of you. So I'm not necessarily looking to throw either of you under the bus specifically. But I do also have my own opinions. I'm going to hold my own opinions for later after we get through some of these hands. I just want to get through some fact checks real quick.

@h1storymediaGo ahead. Yeah, so just real quick. And I'll keep it short. I won't go on some huge monologue or anything. So the first one is with respect to Yitz. The problem with saying that...

@h1storymediaSo he can't be both the sender and the receiver, the allotter and the allotee, the redeemer and the redeemed, and yet we see in multiple texts that Yahweh has allotted Israel by Elion. We see that Yahweh is invoking a higher Yahweh to be the redeemer of Israel. We see that Yahweh is sent by a higher Yahweh. to be the king of Israel.

@h1storymediaAnd so that's number one, and that's in the Hebrew Bible itself. Number two, going back to cover a couple of Major's points, with regards to the Exodus, because I believe he was saying that basically the Exodus was made up. The problem with that is that we have writings from, let's say, Let's start with Hecataeus of Abdera.

@h1storymediaThis is from, I believe, the 4th century. And he's also quoted by Diodorus Siculus. And he describes that there is a plague in Egypt, and there was an expulsion of foreigners, and there was a leader named Moses who founded Jerusalem, a temple, and laws. And I know you quoted Manetho, and I don't know if you realize this, but the sections regarding Manetho with respect to...

@h1storymediaIsrael, and especially with the Exodus. We mostly only have those preserved through Josephus, who is a Jewish historian. So if we're going to accept Manetho, we have to accept Josephus, and Josephus confirms the Exodus. But Manetho specifically says that he tells of there were lepers and polluted people that were expelled under a priest, Osarsif, who later took the name of Moses.

@h1storymediaand allied with the Hyksos. And Josephus himself also records Moses actually joining with the Egyptians in multiple military campaigns. So just two more things. I hear this all the time, and it might sound kind of nitpicky, but it is kind of important. To say El or to say Baal, is kind of incomplete because El is just a generic word for God and Baal is just a generic word for Lord.

@h1storymediaSo unless it's followed by El, you know, like Shaddai, for example, shining one of the mountains strong or God Almighty, it's just a generic word. If you're going to say like Baal Ammon, which would be Lord Moloch, you know, that would be something else as well.

@h1storymediaAnd then just two more things. The earliest Christians, as far as I could tell, unless somebody can show me other citations, you know, and maybe I'm wrong. But the earliest Christians, in my opinion, mistakenly, but they did still believe that the God of Israel was both the Father and Jesus Christ. It doesn't seem that anybody believed that Yahweh was evil until, roughly until the time of Marcion.

@h1storymediaAnd

@h1storymediaJust one more thing with regards to Numbers, the citation that you gave. Numbers 25 says that Moabite and Midianite women drew Israelite men into worship of Baal Peor and that a plague followed. And there was a Midianite woman, Cosby, is named in the tent that ends the plague. It does have that Yahweh tells Moses to take vengeance on the Midianites in Israel fights.

@h1storymediaHe kills the Midianite men, including the kings of Belem, and they bring back the women and children as captives. Now, the narrative never says that they were to be taken as sex slaves, so that is important to know. Moses was angry that the women were left alive. He did give an order to kill every male child and woman who has had sex with a man, but

@h1storymediaHe did also say to keep alive for themselves the females who have not had sex with the men.

@h1storymediaLater on, Deuteronomy 21 regulates marriage to a woman that is captured in war. So the women that were taken were to be taken for marriage, not for sex slaves. So, yeah, I just wanted to throw those things out. I've got more stuff to add, but I'll wait my turn, and we can get to some of these other hands.

@yitzhak_zionistAnd if I may just quickly say, not only were they taken from Elds, but if the woman declined, she was set free, just like that.

@marcionite144adI mean, if Moses is saying to keep all the women who have not slept with the man, I mean, why else would he be doing that if he was not, you know, if they're not suggesting that, you know, keep the virgins for yourself? I mean, it's obvious that they're going to be used as sex slaves. And when it comes to the Exodus story, it was, you know, Manetho that told that story originally.

@marcionite144adAnd... And he mentions that there was a Moses figure involved, but the name was Amos, and it was the king of Egypt at that time. So the Jews basically took that story and rearranged it in order to portray themselves as victims in this scenario. But the truth be told, they invaded Egypt, and they introduced what was called the chariot.

@marcionite144adIt was a revolutionary piece of weaponry that I guess the Egyptians hadn't seen before. And using the chariot, they were able to conquer all the way up to the Middle Kingdom and they burned all the sacred idols, burned all the sacred animals. But nowhere throughout that story were they slaves. Nowhere were they somehow the victims in this scenario.

@marcionite144adThey were raping and pillaging and collecting sex slaves the entire time. It wasn't until after a year of that that the Egyptians finally rallied together and got sick of it and ran them out of town. And ran them not just out of town, but all the way past the supposed promised land that Moses was going to introduce them to.

@marcionite144adThere was no way for Moses to lead them through the desert to the promised land. You have one minute and a half to reply to that and then we'll go to Hans, okay?

@yitzhak_zionistHow much did he have? One minute and a half.

@joann_marieThat's why I'm giving you one minute and a half.

@yitzhak_zionistOkay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. First off, Manetho lived centuries before 1000 BCE. As I mentioned earlier from Professor Horncourt, the Torah is the earliest linguistic profile of the entire Tanakh. So it is far more ancient than Manetho's story. Secondly, as far as history was saying, and I appreciated his commentary, the text calls Moses Elohim, for example.

@yitzhak_zionistAnd so I would just ask them, you know, you mentioned JPED8, I call it the real alphabet people, as I like to call them, on the source criticism theory. It falls apart. How would you explain the chiastic structure? How would you explain actual codes? Not nothing that can predict the future or anything, but actual literal skipped codes in the Torah.

@yitzhak_zionistHow would you explain that it has the very old linguistic profile? I would be very interested to hear what you have to say about that. Well, I mean...

@joann_marieThank you. Should we go to Hans?

@marcionite144adYeah, go ahead. I mean, I would rebut him, but if you want to go to Hans, go ahead.

@joann_marieAll right. And guys, please repost this page, and if you guys want to do it, I'll also repost it. And bookmarketing helps so much with the algorithm. Follow Ian, Christopher, Mr. Kaplan, Mandy, Jeans, and everybody on the panel. And thank you, everybody, so much for being here. All right, Mr. Kaplan, go for it.

@yitzhak_zionistJust real quick, JoAnn, before we do hands, at some point, maybe after the hands, I would like to finish what I was going to say about Ramsey's, my second part for my opening statement, or maybe the third part, I never got the chance to say. So I would appreciate it later on if I get the chance to let the audience listen to it.

@joann_marieOkay. Go for it, Mr. Kaplan.

@mstrkaplnThank you, darling. Really quick, I did get in late. I heard both people's opening... Arguments. I didn't get the point that Yids was trying to make. If we could, and Ian, this is your space, obviously, can we give them both 30 seconds? Yids first to make his point and the other person. 30 seconds to respond to the crux of why he's wrong or something along those lines.

@yitzhak_zionistWell, what's the point? Because I had two points. I had a mathematical equation and then I had part one of appropriating imagery from Ramsey's second. Which one would you like me to recount?

@mstrkaplnI need you to zoom further out. What is your position, and what is the other position? Big, big picture.

@yitzhak_zionistOh, okay. Okay, his position is based on speculation, and you know that we apparently worship Saturn for whatever reason, because apparently Sabbat means Saturn. My position is just looking at the text honestly, what the text says, what the ancient Neo-Eastern literature... That the text was created around, like the quote from a rabbi, what does that say, for example?

@yitzhak_zionistThat's what I'm interested in, actual history, not conspiracies, not... Yeah, that's pretty much the gist.

@joann_marieGo for it, Martin.

@yitzhak_zionistIs it my turn now?

@joann_marieYeah, 30 seconds to reply to Mr. Kaplan.

@marcionite144adBut it's also related to the Roman god Saturn, which gave its name to Saturn's day. The connection between Saturn and Sabbath is rooted in a belief that Saturn is the planet which governs the Jews. The Babylonian Talmud 15B 156A refers to Saturn as Sabbatai, i.e. the star of Shabbat, Sabbath, Saturday. Abraham, even Ezra, was the first Jewish thinker to address this connection between Saturn and Sabbath.

@marcionite144adHe believed that Saturn was conductive to a The Hebrew Moves were borrowed from the pagan gods. They have nothing to do with our own theology.

@marcionite144adThat is correct. That is correct. Saturn, the North Pole of Saturn, there's some geometry that's associated with it. It's an octagon. Within it, you can derive the six-pointed star, the hexagon, that the Jews portray on their flag. It represents the black cube. You see it all throughout. The corporate logos, Saturn, for instance, they all use the rings or the black cube.

@marcionite144adThe black cube, what was it? The security force that killed Cappy, Isaac Cappy, was a black cube. He was speaking about them when he got assassinated. The cube represents the cross folded, which basically is a symbol that symbolizes your mind, your spiritual energy being trapped within this material realm. If you unfold that box, it basically performs a cross, which represents the release.

@marcionite144adThank you for joining us.

@joann_marieYou have one minute and 20 seconds to reply, Jens.

@yitzhak_zionistYes, thank you. First off, the cell was, if I'm assuming that's what you mean, they had the filler box, has nothing to do with Saturn. And astrology has nothing to do with Israel. You can actually read the sources. You will understand this. Here's the thing. What he is doing is spinning this web, this giant web. And he's saying, you know, look over here and look over there, connecting the dots.

@yitzhak_zionistAnd he's not taking the account, actually, as they are. A black cube, a cross that forms a box. What does that have anything to do with Judaism? He mentioned the Star of David being the star of fun. We have no idea what that star is described as. Nobody knows what it is. But we do know this. In the ancient times, today, David's name

@marcionite144adall throughout ancient history whenever you take two shapes and overlap them there was like there were symbols that were used by pagans the jews adopted the the star and if you notice you know it's it's two triangles that have been basically overlapped and each of those the angles on those trial triangles is 60 degrees so it's basically it's six six six six six six overlapping each other it's the mark of the beast it's right there in your face uh yes we'll never never acknowledge this fact but i mean it's it's a satanic symbol it is the mark of the beast it is the star of of of

@marcionite144adThe Black Cube being Saturn was something that was widely known.

@yitzhak_zionistI thought that was a thing. We all know that that's what it is.

@mstrkaplnAnd it's his contention that it's not Saturn. Am I correct in that?

@marcionite144adYes, yeah. The Jews will do everything to deny the fact that they worship Satan. They killed Jesus for making such accusations. The very cube that the rabbis wear on their head when they're performing the binding of Isaac's ceremony, it has three voves on it. The numerical value of those voves is six. So they literally put 666 on the black cubes they put on their head.

@marcionite144adI mean, it's right there in your face. They wear the mark of the beast, even when they're praying to their god. Thank you.

@joann_marieThis is such a great space. What are your thoughts so far, Ian or Christopher?

@yitzhak_zionistNo, there was nothing to do with... Tefillin has nothing to do with 666. This is not the case. It's not true. And by the way, Tacitus, for the record, famously said that the Romans killed Jesus, had nothing to do with us.

@joann_marieOh my god, stop, okay. Let's go to the next hand. Oh my god, I don't see any hands. Nothing to do with us!

@h1storymediaJoAnn, we've got Ronnie had his hand up for you.

@joann_marieGo for it, Ronnie. Thank you, Histeria. Thank you.

@h1storymediaAnd I think Dan, that Dan Bilzerian account too.

@ronnienapolisHey, Ian and Jo, you know, as always, thank you guys for hosting this space and giving everybody a voice to speak in. You know, I will give a shout out to Yitz. You know, if nobody's ever been in these spaces with Yitz, usually he cannot hold his tongue. He will interrupt you. So, you know, shout out to Yitz for actually, you know, abiding by the rules and, you know, letting everybody speak and getting their words out.

@ronnienapolisBut, you know. I will say this though, Yitz. You know, if we want to understand who guides the course of global faith, we just need to look at who wrote the script. You know, when we strip away the modern denominations of the massive church buildings and the thousands of languages and the Bible, you know, that the Bible is printed in, we find a single...

@ronnienapolisInescapable reality, which is the foundational literature of Western religion was entirely composed and compiled and preserved by one group, and it was the Jews. Even in the Ottoman era in Palestine, where 25,000 Jews were in Palestine, they lived among the Arab nation peacefully.

@ronnienapolisThe 1948 era happened.

@ronnienapolisThey don't get to actually be prime ministers. They don't get to be the president. They are dysfunctionally displaced so that Zionism gets to overrule every single aspect of you. Your very first president, Zionist. It all comes from Herzl. Even though Herzl, Theodore Herzl, he doesn't even exist anymore. His entire lineage was wiped off the planet when his grandson in the 1980s dove himself off of a building in New York.

@ronnienapolisSo, you know, my thing is, is that...

@yitzhak_zionistHow is it that... His entire family was killed, that's why, in the Holocaust.

@ronnienapolisWell, no, his entire family wasn't because his fucking daughter, his daughters and his granddaughters were all reparted and stuff. They were institutionalized, so we don't have to go there. But here's my thing is that, you know, how can you follow so closely to something that doesn't even mimic what Judaism even...

@ronnienapolisWe're all here together, and you think that you and the Jews and the Zionism, that all matters. We already know how much influence it has here in America. If we're looking at today's world, we're following... We're trying to get people around five minutes. No, no, it's fine. That's fine, Jo. I'll let you speak. That's just my question to you, brother.

@ronnienapolisYou know, if we're all trying to be peaceful and neighborly, then how come you were following something that doesn't even, you know, remotely recognize what Judaism actually was back in the day? I mean, it just doesn't make sense, bro.

@yitzhak_zionistYes, this is a very simple answer. And again, I don't want to get political, but Gaza has seen more buffs than deaths. And if you do the math, based on Hamas' own calculations, We've dropped the equivalent of two atomic bombs, and yet less than 3% of the population has perished, etc., etc. Ben-Gavir's new plan is to start voluntary immigration, and Israel will spend tens of billions of dollars for multiple years to pay their way, to have them absorbed in the new communities, pay for their employment, etc., etc.

@yitzhak_zionistAs I've mentioned many times before, I don't want to get political. I don't believe there's a genocide going on. I'd rather not get political. You mentioned earlier, though, that... What was it? You mentioned something about theology. There was something in there at one point. I was unfortunately interrupted at one point, and I couldn't make out what you were saying.

@yitzhak_zionistYou said something that the Torah we have today is not the same Torah, or something of that nature. Am I correct?

@ronnienapolisYeah, I mean, I was saying that... You know, everything that has been written, not just with the Jews, and just even in Christianity. You guys have politically taken over all of religion. This is historical. The Jews wrote the Christian Bible. They own every single Bible. And you're sitting here following a Zionist regime.

@ronnienapolisYou know... Because you can't live in Israel. Over 90% of Israel is following a Zionist regime that was created by Theodor Herzl.

@yitzhak_zionistSo, yeah, that's where I'm at. I'm having trouble following what you're trying to say here. If I wanted to make Aliyah today, whether I was Reform, Orthodox, secular, whether I was married to an Arab or a Chinese person even, I could. Some even argue that Zionism no longer applies since we now have a state. I don't really follow what you're saying, but you are correct that we did.

@yitzhak_zionistWe wrote all the biblical books, including the New Testament, something I don't want to piss to, you know, don't tell everyone. But here's the deal. You can't even understand the Torah or anything without the rabbinic placement of the vows. There were no spaces in the original Torah. There were no vowels. You couldn't even read it.

@yitzhak_zionistYou'd have to rely on rabbinic tradition. So now I suppose MajorMarcionite doesn't have to because he's a Marcionite. But he believes in a reconstructed text. The Marcionite Bible does not exist today. It had to be reconstructed in the 20th century or the 21st, whatever it is. It doesn't have any real community, no church, no nothing.

@yitzhak_zionistAnd just like the Kerwites, he made his own religion because he was upset he didn't get a cushy job.

@ronnienapolisCan I respond? Yes, you have three minutes. So you write your own Bible and then you pat yourself on the back. That's what I'm getting.

@yitzhak_zionistI believe Hassam. God had something to do with it.

@joann_marieAll right, Malchonites, go for it. Three minutes.

@marcionite144adYeah, I would like to clarify something. The Jews, Paul for instance, did write the New Testament, but he wrote it as an antithesis to Judaism. I mean, every aspect of Christianity, specifically the original form of Christianity, was done to show how evil...

@marcionite144adThis God of the Old Testament is, you know, when Paul created the New Testament, it wasn't even Paul that created it, it was Paul that wrote the original gospel. It was the original church of Jerusalem that Paul founded that basically conscripted Marcion to take this gospel to Rome to see to it that the churches of Rome respected the original church, the original gospel as Paul created it.

@marcionite144adAll Marcion did, he didn't create any new gospels. He didn't edit anything. He wasn't a writer, per se. He was a shipping captain. And it was because his father was one of the original apostles of Jesus that he was chosen for this task. And what he did is he took Paul's original gospel along with Paul's original seven letters, put them into a single book, and called it the New Testament.

@marcionite144adHe took that to Rome along with the vast Logius, the money that Paul had collected throughout his travels, to prove that he was an emissary of the original church. His very name, Marcion, means little Marcus. Marcus was the original bishop of the original church that Paul had founded. Now, you know, in the modern Bible, they took Paul's gospel out of the book.

@marcionite144adIf you notice, you know, Paul says, you know, anybody that should preach to you a different gospel should be cursed by God. They didn't even include Paul's gospel in the modern Bible. So, you know, what does that say? But basically, the Bible, it may have been created by Jews, but these are Jews that recognize the fact that the other fellow Jews are worshiping the devil.

@marcionite144adThey recognize that they had been led astray and they were worshiping a genocidal God who was not the all-loving God as described by Plato. He wasn't an all-caring, all-loving, all-graceful God. And so basically, he created the original...

@marcionite144adAll these other gospels that you hear of, Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, these were gospel writers whose works were floating around untitled, unnamed for many, many years before they finally put Mark, Matthew, Luke to these gospels in order to try and give them a first century context. But they weren't created until the end of the second century, the beginning of the third century.

@marcionite144adAnd they were created as a response to Paul's original

@joann_marieMay I please briefly respond in one minute? We have a couple of hands. We can go back to this.

@yitzhak_zionistWrite it. Thank you. So first off, the first believers in Jesus, they were Jews. Do you think they would have called themselves Christians? Absolutely not. In fact, Jesus' entire ethics, you can only understand it from the Torah itself. You need the oral messiah, oral Jewish tradition to understand much of the New Testament.

@yitzhak_zionistWhat's a Sabbat day journey, for example? What's tone the other cheek? What does that mean? Does he slap you around in the face? No. It was based off a Messianic law that you would slap somebody with the front of your hand, and then what Jesus was basically saying is, I dare you to do it with the back hand, because you know that's fucking...

@yitzhak_zionistWell, he was the first Christian. I'm biting my tongue so hard today.

@joann_marieIt's time.

@yitzhak_zionistHe believes in these conspiracies. He believes instead of a... in the Tefillin. And that's incorrect. There's no valve on the Tefillin. Okay.

@joann_marieDing, ding, ding, ding, ding.

@yitzhak_zionistDing, ding.

@joann_marieDing. Oh, my God. When I say ding, you stop. Okay.

@joann_marieI... Okay. Forté, go for it.

@speakerJoAnn, you got me cracking up over here. Between your dings and your sighs of biting your tongue, it's appreciated.

@joann_marieI'm trying to stay neutral and I'm like, I can't. It's so hard today. Okay, go for it. Sorry.

@speakerWell, you guys are doing a great job, both the host for holding the debate and the two gentlemen. I'll use that term a little bit lightly there, doing the debating. But I do have a question, and maybe I misunderstood this a little bit, so forgive me there. But when you're saying that there was no written Torah, or there was no written laws or commandments or anything, because they were meant to be changed all the time.

@speakerAnd again, correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but to me that just seems like it's not so much the Word of God, it's just whatever kind of suits the people in power at the time, they can kind of just change and interpret what they are saying is the quote, like, Word of God, to just suit them. And instead of having some innate, you know, connection to God...

@speakerThese people had to go and check in with the high priests, or I guess the high rabbis, or whatever, to understand what God was saying, even though he should have already said it and they should have already known it. Am I misunderstanding here, or is that kind of the way that it works? They just kind of change it to suit them?

@speakerI'd like to hear both of you on that.

@yitzhak_zionistYou are exactly 100% correct. Can you hear me, by the way? Can you hear me? Oh, because my app says reconnecting, so you can hear me?

@joann_marieWe can.

@yitzhak_zionistOkay, thank you. So yes, he is 100% correct. Deuteronomy 17 famously says you would go to the judges and the elders when you have a matter that you can't resolve, and you would not turn to the left or right of their decision. What they tell you is what God essentially says, and what they're saying later on in later days.

@yitzhak_zionistThat's what's going on here. The sages always had the ability to change things to an extent. For example, you can't add another seven days to Pesach and say, Hasam commanded it. That's not allowed. But we even see in Bava Messiah, for example, in the Gemara, in the Talmud, well, it's by majority vote. Democracy, you can argue, actually came from us.

@yitzhak_zionistYou had two different rabbis debating the coastal status of an oven. and all kinds of miracles are brought forth, including a divine voice from the heavens above. And the voice says, I disagree with Eliezer, no, it says I agree with Eliezer, but at the end they say, we're not going to even pay attention to that, because the Torah, of course, commands us, do not fall for the trap of miracles.

@yitzhak_zionistIt's not enough to...

@yitzhak_zionistTo abandon the Torah, you have to take the whole teaching as a holistic approach.

@speakerExcellent. So I'm going to bite my tongue and not ask the obvious question of if the rabbis found ovens to be kosher, but I'm going to instead ask, so basically, maybe I'll form a question, rather. Who decides what can and can't be changed? Because you said that certain things... I couldn't read exactly, but certain things can't be changed, but certain things can, and it's just decided by a council of judges and rabbis, I'm assuming.

@speakerSo how does that make that the word of God, or even something that comes from divinity, if it can be changed by man on a whim?

@yitzhak_zionistYes, we're talking about the hukim, not the mispatim, not the ethical laws per se. But the hukum. And this can only be done when there's a Sanhedrin in place. There are many examples of it being done. After the Sanhedrin was dissolved, the process even still continued. But when you got to Yosef Karo's time and the Rambam a little before him, the Rambam, Judaism started to have so many flavors.

@yitzhak_zionistAnd because the communities, because we were in a diaspora, and Facing Intense Prosecution. You had to come up with a frozen law code, per se. And that's why you had Ms. Natoa, et cetera, different law codes that now have been, from the Orthodox community anyway, that have been frozen in place. In some ways, it's a lot of good with that, and in some ways, it's a lot of bad.

@yitzhak_zionistBut I believe, was there another part to the question? I might have missed, I apologize, I might have missed another part of your question.

@speakerWell, so how are any of these laws from an all-knowing, divine source, if they can be changed by man?

@yitzhak_zionistYes, yes, yes. So God originally dictates the laws in the Torah, because, once again, my argument... Opposite the alphabet people, counter to the documentary hypothesis, which says the Torah was written in Ezra, Josiah, Second Temple, this temple, that temple, whatever, etc. That's not what's going on. The Torah was in the late second millennium, the time of the Code of Hammurabi.

@yitzhak_zionistIt was directly inspired by the Code. Hittite Vassal Treatise is another example that I could use. So, would you say that God was patterning his... You know, divine cosmic law off of the law codes of other societies of the surrounding context of that Pacific era. Yes, that appeals to seem what has happened. Animal sacrifice, for example, is a good example I can mention about this.

@yitzhak_zionistThe surrounding cultures committed human sacrifice. As Sam said, we'll tone it down. We'll do animal sacrifices later on. Ralph Cook says later on it will be sacrifices entirely of plants. Assuming such a thing even happens in the sword Biat HaMikdas. So that's what's going on. So Deuteronomy 17 gives the rabbis, it specifically says, be co-creators in perfecting my creation.

@yitzhak_zionistYou can change the Torah to an extent whenever it fits the needs of the time. This is what Hesam himself says in Deuteronomy 17 from Moshe Rabbeinu. So in essence, by following that, by being, quote unquote, Marcionite, you have three and a half minutes to reply to all of that.

@marcionite144adYeah, I'm just, I'm still blown away by this whole, we can, you know, vote ourselves God. It's, you know, it's just, I'm like, I don't know what to make of that. Here I am thinking that, you know, they have, you know, a God that they worship and It's actually a voting process. You got to ask yourself, what is it about these Jews?

@marcionite144adWhat do they actually hold holy? What's actually spiritual that cannot be changed by a vote? The only thing that I could think of is the Holocaust. You can't even criticize that. That's not debatable. If you even bring it up, you're going to jail. So in a sense, I almost want to think that the Holocaust is what they worship.

@marcionite144adIf not their victim mentality as a whole. I would like to address the fact that it gets insinuated that Jesus was a Jew. According to the original Bible, Jesus ascended to earth fully formed. Thank you for joining us.

@marcionite144adIt's a giant manipulation and ultimately they have to get the entire world to worship their God in order to create a one world religion whereby the entire world be forced to worship Satan and the Jews as his chosen people. That's why you see, unless you're preaching Yahwehistic faith, you don't get on TV, you don't get the radio spots, you don't get your books published.

@marcionite144adThey have a complete lock on the media, and that's why so many people have been deceived into this whole Yahweh deception. According to the original Bible, it states clearly that Yahweh was the demiurge, it was a false god of the physical world. And it's so easy to see this, because you just have to read his words. You know, and Luke, for instance, you know, they come right out and tell you that he's the devil.

@marcionite144adAnd Luke, you know, it says that the devil took Jesus up on a high place and showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and said, if you just bow down and worship me, I'll make all of this yours. And, damn it. And yeah, and it was Psalms 7-12, it says, ask me.

@marcionite144adThis is what Yahweh is speaking now. He says, ask me and I will make the nations your inheritance, the end of the world your possession. Is this not exactly what Satan offers Jesus in the Bible? And then on top of that, he says from these cities, these people, which Yahweh, your God has given you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

@marcionite144adYou shall surely annihilate them, just as Yahweh your God has commanded you. So not only does Yahweh promise them every kingdom on earth along with all of its material wealth, he also commands them to kill, to genocide all the people living within these lands, down to their dogs and cats. This is a bloodthirsty, materialistic God.

@marcionite144adI mean, if you think of Satan, something that Satan would say, you just got to look at the Old Testament. All throughout the Old Testament is clear examples of what a satanic God would say. GoyimUnited, Shalom, how are you? Oh no, is he talking?

@speakerI can't hear him. I think your connection's bad, Goyim.

@joann_marieI'm going to recycle him. All right. Dan Vilsarian for President. Welcome. Go for it.

@electbilzerianHey, what's up, guys? Awesome conversation. Saturn's fascinating. There's a few cool ideas I wanted to throw at you guys that a lot of people don't know about. One is that... Okay, so... If you guys are familiar with, he brought up Elephantine Island earlier and there's so much baked into the Egyptian lore with the gods Set and Osiris.

@electbilzerianThey have a really interesting lore there because what Set does is he creates an urn for Osiris, the sun god. So you have Set's urn. So he packed then Osiris into the box, and there's a really cool etymological string there that kind of pulls it all together. The other interesting thing is in early Zoroastrianism, Saturn is called Zervon, and it's considered...

@electbilzerianand Zoroastrian Lore. But there's one last idea I want to leave you guys with that's really fascinating. So this guy named Jeffrey Walensky, he has a theory called stellar metamorphosis and his argument is that planets are dead stars. So Jupiter and Saturn are actually dying stars and that Earth, Mars are all dead planet or dead star cores.

@electbilzerianSo, instead of like the traditional astrophysics model where, you know, clumps of comets, you know, clump together and form planets, what it actually is, is that stars die, and then the cores become planets, which evolve around, or then begin to orbit a new star. And that kind of plays into the lore of Saturn being a star.

@electbilzerianor being a dead star or a black sun, so to speak. So I'll leave it there. Awesome show, guys. Good debate. And thanks again for hosting, Ann and JoAnn. Love you guys.

@yitzhak_zionistIt's almost midnight where I'm from. I maybe could go another 30 minutes or so.

@joann_marieAll right. You can reply for two minutes and then we'll go to Marcel. I do reply for two minutes.

@yitzhak_zionistOh, okay. Okay, he mentioned the Zoroastrian belief. I happen to know one of those, of that persuasion, and he's pretty clear to me that it's a dualistic theology, it's not monotheistic. He mentioned about Egyptians and different linguistic connections. Moses, of course, was derived from an Egyptian verb. But I did want to ask Marcionite two quick questions.

@yitzhak_zionistHe claims, The Christianity was a psyop and everything was part of the plan. I want to ask him. I want to get it straight. Was all the Christian persecution for the last 2,000 years part of the plan? All the first conversions, disputations, inquisition, bornings, pogroms, was that part of the plan? And secondly, I want to ask him that he says, he keeps saying, it's mostly a United Bible.

@yitzhak_zionistIt's the original Bible, the original, original this, the original that. But does it date to 1,000 BCE? Because the Torah does date to 1000 BCE. Marcionite, I don't know if it was 2nd or 3rd century or whichever time he lived, does not date to 1000 BCE. You have to actually study the data. You will see very clearly what's going on here.

@yitzhak_zionistWhat's going on here with all of these people, all of these Bible critics, that are just being purposefully targeting the Bible unfairly. They wanted to attack the classical Greco-Roman text. They tried in the past and they gave up on it. But it's all just a big game. It's a big sandbox. I mean, let's play this straight.

@yitzhak_zionistIf there was an ancient text discovered today that said the Moabites were slaves in Egypt and their god helped free them, and there were many miracles, but they escaped to the farmer's land, everyone would say, yeah, it's probably true. It probably happened. Nobody would quibble about how many people were left and if they made settlements in the land.

@yitzhak_zionistThank you, Kate. All right, MajorMarcionite, go for it in two minutes. Yeah, I love the point that...

@marcionite144adAnd most of them, they all basically detail Saturn being in the dominant position, like closer than the moon is today. And it supposedly gave off its own source of light. That's why the ancients were all familiar with the sacred geometry that exists on its North Pole. They also, the cave paintings detail what's called the squatting man, which was basically plasma charges, discharges that were being given off by Saturn at that point.

@marcionite144adYitz mentions that the Torah date to the 1000 BCE, the Torah wasn't created until Jesus. The first mention of it wasn't until, was it the end of the third century, the second century, I think it was like 210 BCE. Again, there was no mention, there was no knowledge of Moses, there was no knowledge of David, there was no knowledge of Abraham and all the thousands of papyri that have been recovered from the island of Elephantine before.

@marcionite144adNone of them even mention any reference to any of these basically historic figures. So as far as astrology is concerned, or not astrology, as far as the... As far as the historians that deal in physical evidence are concerned, the Torah didn't exist until the 2nd century BCE. I don't know what evidence he's speaking of, but none of it exists.

@marcionite144adI've looked and I've looked. There's no archaeologists that have found any evidence that Jews moved in mass across the desert. There's no campfires. There's no pottery. There's no evidence that basically these mass forts... Go ahead. I'm sorry. I need that damn thing.

@joann_marieIf I may respond. We're going to go back to you. We're going to go to a couple of hands and then we'll go to you. Put it in your notes. Okay. This is such a great space, guys. It's amazing. All right. Goyim, Shalom, Hashoshanna.

@joann_marieGoyim?

@mossadsuxCan you hear me now?

@joann_marieYes, welcome. How are you?

@mossadsuxI'm hanging in there. Thank you for asking. You're sweet. Ian, what an excellent space you're hosting. I'm having fun listening to both of these retards kvetching back and forth with each other. It's phenomenal. And I don't mean any offense, so don't take it that way, right? But, you know, just a brief amount of research will determine that Marcian was condemned as a heretic by everyone, literally everyone in 140.

@mossadsuxSo, yeah, not interested in Marcianism. But anyway, let me get on to the question that I wanted to ask because it's actually from the Tanakh, right? This is very fascinating. The book of Deuteronomy, right? And there's a particular verse in there where you talk about changing the Torah. And it specifically says in Deuteronomy 14 for you Christians, you shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you.

@mossadsuxSo here we have clearly what is a religious law. And then we also have... Some type of civilizational law that you have created, which are two completely alternate systems, and somehow, through the way, it seems like your boy Ramban there has confused the two, right, and tried to make them the same thing, which they are not, clearly, by the Torah.

@mossadsuxSo I'm curious, when Ramban was getting his butt kicked by Isaiah 53 and the prophecy of the Messiah ben Yosef, right, the suffering Messiah, and couldn't deal with it, so he had to basically just pretend like that whole philosophy of that Messiah never existed. Do you think he was changing the laws or taken away from God's word?

@yitzhak_zionistYes, number one.

@joann_marieSay again?

@yitzhak_zionistOh, yes. Number one. I would refer you back to Deuteronomy 17, which says that you were in a time when you have a dispute and you can't resolve it. You go to the judge, to the elders, to the Kohanim. There are plenty of examples. There's a house, for example, that is struck and was a condition. And you have to move everything out of the house in most cases.

@yitzhak_zionistBut you have to wait before the Kohen Gadol, the high priest, arrives and determines if the house is really inflicted or if it's clean. This is not coming from God. This is coming directly from the High Priest. So, how would you explain that?

@mossadsuxAgain, civil law, exactly as I just said, but proceed. Say again, please. I would explain that as a form of civil law, thus the term judges, right? So, proceed.

@yitzhak_zionistYes, yes, yes. But of course, the problem is that Deuteronomy, there are plenty of examples throughout the Torah where everything is being decided by these men. Everything from how to use the restroom, essentially, to theological decisions. Everything rests on their authority. This is the classic understanding of the Tanakh, of the Torah, classic understanding.

@yitzhak_zionistSo when it says... Don't add this or follow the law. This is what it means. I mean, another counter example in Nehemiah, for example, there was a famous passage where the people have atoned from the exile. They're using presses for grapes. And Hermia says, what are you doing? This is a mistake. He's going to do this. This is against the law of Moses.

@yitzhak_zionistWell, you won't find anything about that in the written Torah, in the written law of Moses. So did he make it up? Or was he quoting some form of oral tradition? Was he perhaps reapplying the law to that era, that time period, what I'd mentioned earlier, that the law could be miswrote? Could I have a follow-up question, please?

@joann_marieYes, of course, Graham.

@mossadsuxOkay, so I would say that you would say he is following an oral tradition. I would agree with you 100%. I don't dispute that there was an oral tradition before the Torah was written down. But again, if there was an oral tradition that was passed on and it was failed to be written down...

@mossadsuxThen he said to me, Son of man, lift up your eyes now toward the north. So I lifted up my eyes toward the north, and behold, north of the altar gate in the entrance was this image of jealousy. And he said to me, Son of man, do you see what they are doing? The great abominations that the house of Israel are committing here to drive me far from my sanctuary, Baruch Hashem.

@mossadsuxBut you will see still greater abominations. and he brought me to the entrance of the court and when I looked behold there was a hole in the wall and then he said to me son of man dig in the wall so I dug in the wall and behold there was an entrance and he said to me go in and see the vile abominations that they are committing there so I went in and saw there engraved on the wall all around was every form of creeping things and loathsome beasts and all of the idols of the house of Israel now I would like to point out here just to break from the scripture for a second that

@mossadsuxThere is a god from the area known as Baal-Zebub, right, who is the lord of flies, the lord of pestilence, of crawling things, and unholy abominations. That worship underneath the very house of God would seem to be exactly Baal-Zebub. Now let me continue with Ezekiel because there are far more gods that we have to cover here.

@mossadsuxOkay, so we have this going on underneath of the temple along with idols erected. to the house of Israel apparently. And before them stood 70 men of the elders of the house of Israel with Jazaniah, the son of Shaphan, standing among them. Each had his censer in his hand and the smoke of the cloud of incense went up. Then he said to me, son of man, have you seen what the elders of the house of Israel are doing in the dark, each in his room of pictures?

@mossadsuxFor they say the Lord does not see us. The Lord has forsaken the land. He also said to me, you will see still. greater abominations that they commit then he brought me to the entrance of the north gate of the house of the lord and behold there sat women weeping for tammuz now i am also very knowledgeable in the babylonian gods when you have inkay and marduk right also known as the assyrian as bell or again ball right basically satan you have also the feminine deities inanna ishtar right

@mossadsuxwho later becomes Ashtoreth in the Canaanite pantheon. We'll get to her in a second. But Tammuz is the lover of Inanna according to the Babylonian pantheon, right? And they have this feud that goes on where she betrays him and he goes to the underworld for six months of the year. And then she goes down to rescue him and he comes back from the underworld for six months of the year.

@mossadsuxAnd it represents the summer, spring and fall

@mossadsuxHave you seen this, O son of man? You will see still greater abominations than these. And he brought me into the inner court of the house of the Lord. And behold, at the entrance of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men, with their backs to the temple of the Lord, and their faces towards the east, worshipping the sun towards the east.

@mossadsuxThen he said to me, Have you seen this, O son of man? It is too light a thing for the house of Judah to commit the abominations that they commit here, that they should fill the land with violence and provoke me still to further anger. Behold, they put the branch to their nose. Okay, I have to pause there because, again, going through the pantheons, we have just had two gods mentioned in a single verse.

@mossadsuxNumber one, El, the Babylonian god who's worshipped as the sun, right? That is the reason why those men were standing towards the east. They were worshiping El, which is a Babylonian god. Secondly, the branch put to the nose. That is a form of worship of the goddess Asherah, for whom the Hebrew Israelites made Asherah poles and brought trees into their own houses.

@mossadsuxSo they worshiped this pagan grove deity known as Asherah, right? Now, let me proceed since we've covered those two.

@mossadsuxLet's see. Behold, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore, I will act in wrath. My eye will not spare, nor will I have pity. And though they cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them. So just to surmise there, we've seen an idol by the gate that made the Lord angry right in front of his own temple, his own house on earth.

@mossadsuxWhat an abomination, Baruch Hashem. Then we see secret rooms of idols. We see mourning for Tammuz calling for a pagan ceremony to bring back spring. We see sun worship. We see the worship of Asherah and also violence and provocation committed by these Israelites of the temple. So now I want to go to another deity, right?

@mossadsuxAnd this one is more important. And this is a part, thank you to the archeology in history of names like Flavius Josephus, right? The Roman historian who was formerly a Hebrew. Also Ammianus Marcellinus, another Roman historian who wrote about this, right? Who recorded, That the reason the Romans were brought in was because the Pharisees and the Sadducees went to Rome and asked them to come and kick out the Greeks because they were tired of the Greeks.

@mossadsuxWell, when the Greeks ruled over Judea and Samaria, as you like to call it, they brought their gods with them. And one of their gods is very, very important. We might see a parallel here to other verses in the Torah. So I want to cover these before we say the Jews don't worship Saturn. So here we go. Let me proceed. What happened is there is a Greek god by the name of Cronus.

@mossadsuxIf you read the lore of Cronus, Cronus had two sons. Cronus was a tyrant, right? He is represented in the astrological symbols by the planet Saturn. Cronus had a little problem with his sons. He thought they were too uppity, so he ate both of them. He engaged in cannibalism and ate his own offspring, right? And then when the Romans took over...

@mossadsuxSo maybe really Saturn is just another way of Cronus worship back to the Greek. That would be my theory on it, right? That makes a lot more sense than all of this nonsense of urns and stuff. And it's also backed up by archaeology and history and Roman historians, which are very prescient to the time at hand, right? So now, the Saturn thing.

@mossadsuxYou mentioned the word Teflon. The specific device that we're discussing is the phylactery that sits on the forehead, right? Which in Japan, as you'll notice, I have this very interesting little PFP that looks like a Lego figure of this Japanese being called a Tengu. The Tengu had six-sided boxes on their head. That's very interesting, right?

@mossadsuxBecause six, the hexagon, that is the pattern of Saturn. Very interesting. They were also in the Japanese lore known to walk around with something called a Torano scroll. So that is historically documented as well. So I would say that absolutely, if they worshipped, if they put altars in front of God's house, if they worshipped carved statues for Asherah, they worshipped Beelzebul, right?

@mossadsuxWhat we call Beelzebub now, but Beelzebub, the lord of demons, right? Prince of flies, prince of all creeping things and evil. They worshipped Baal Peor in other chapters, who, for those of you that don't know, is the Lord of Holes, boasts things coming in the holes and going out of them, which would explain... Thank you so much for joining us.

@mossadsuxof Hebrews taking on pagan gods and worshiping to the point of utter destruction. So to laughably say that they did not follow Cronus and other of the Greek gods, I think is an affront to any form of rational intelligence, and I will land there.

@joann_marieGo for it, Marcionite, and then we'll go to Jitz for two minutes.

@marcionite144adHe made the accusation that everybody rejected Marcion, that it was excommunicated from the church. That's a fallacy. The church didn't exist at the time that Marcion had introduced Christianity to Rome. It had a church of Rome, but it wasn't a Christian church. At that point, all of Rome was worshipping Saturn, who they adopted from the Greeks, as GoyimUnited was suggesting.

@marcionite144adThe entire country worshiped Saturn. All their money, all of Rome's wealth was held within temples to Saturn. This was the basis on which they rejected Marcion because Marcion was basically introducing a new religion that rejected Saturn and identified him as the false god of the physical world. It wasn't the church that rejected Marcion.

@marcionite144adAll those people that called Marcion a heretic, they didn't dare call Marcion a heretic to his face and they didn't say it while he was alive and living in Rome. These were accusations that were libeled long before

@marcionite144adThe genocide of the Diocletian genocide where the Roman troops went house to house and they confiscated anybody that was hiding a Marcionite Bible, the original Bible, and put to death anybody that they caught hiding it. And those that turned over their texts were labeled by the Romans, traditors, basically traitors. So, you know, the early Christian movement, you know, it wasn't, it was, you know, it was growing like wildfire all throughout Rome and the Roman government had to stamp it out because the entire basis for their monetary system was based on a belief in Saturn as their god.

@marcionite144adYou know, if you were stealing from the Roman government, if you weren't paying your debts, you weren't just stealing from the Roman government, you were stealing from their god. They basically associated the two together and that's the reason why they had, you know, basically...

@marcionite144adThank you. Number one,

@yitzhak_zionistGoyimUnited mentioned the Japanese figure, which I want to be respectful to. I love Japanese culture, and so I'm not going to try to pronounce the name of the deity or the god.

@joann_marieIt's not a deity.

@yitzhak_zionistOh, okay, my bad. My apologies. But the thing is, this is like an Afghanavi...

@yitzhak_zionistYou can make comparisons with anything.

@yitzhak_zionistI get the support of the Romans and overthrow the other one. Instead, Pompey just took over everything. It was a terrible mistake. And then, of course, GoyimUnited mentioned that all these foreign gods that everybody was bowing down to and praying, I don't disagree with that. That's the reason the prophets were sent, to chastise us, to get us to come back to worshipping the one God.

@yitzhak_zionistYou can look through the Torah, though. For the most part, it wasn't the case. For the most part, all of the mitzvot were absorbed and everything. In fact, in the Torah, in the wandering of the desert for an entire 40-year stretch, apparently 40 years, 40 symbolized for a long time, but we'll say 40, it says that we only tested Hesem 12 times.

@yitzhak_zionistOnly 12 times was Hesam angry with us. And then, of course, the wicked prophet Balaam and Korok, for example, they both declared us a Goy Karos, a holy nation, when they made their prophecies. So still, in Hesam's eyes, we were deemed holy. And Major Marcionite earlier made the point about, he went back to the Exodus saying, was the evidence for...

@yitzhak_zionistThank you.

@joann_marieGoyim, would you like to reply to any of those things?

@mossadsuxYes, I would say to everyone who just heard my giant rant that I did to do your own research and look up the sources on Marcion and fact check every verse I read to you. That's why I mentioned the numbers. That's why I mentioned the historians. So you can check for yourself. The truth stands alone.

@joann_marieExcellent. Thank you so much. And guys, please repost this space. And if you guys go to it, I will also repost it. Follow Ian and Christopher and Marcionite and Gids and Goyim and Mandy and everybody on the panel. And thank you so much for being here. All right. California, welcome. Go for it.

@star_blazer7California. Hey, guys. Yeah, right here. Yeah. Thank you, Ian, Christopher and JoAnn. Thank you for... I also want to thank Yitz and Major for agreeing to do this. Major, my question is for you. I don't understand your central argument, and I want to get clear on it. Am I accurately characterizing it when I say that you're basically saying that...

@star_blazer7That the source of the Jewish belief that they don't worship a God that isn't Saturn, the source of that belief is their recognition of

@star_blazer7I'm trying to understand your question.

@marcionite144adThey understand that he was a genocidal god, and they were subscribing to the platonic view that god can be only light, can be only love, that it's love that ultimately is the source of the monad, the great monad, the source of all light in the universe, and that it could only be a holy god, and in which case, Yahweh, the Saturnian god of the Old Testament, could not be him.

@marcionite144adIt was these early Christians along with all, you know, every early Gnostic movement, really Gnostic movements in general. There's a lot of great information there. Even if you're not a Gnostic, it would behoove you to go out there and study what the Gnostics said. It'll help you to understand the basis of Christianity and why it was created.

@marcionite144adIt was originally created as an antithetical movement to Judaism. In fact, everything that Jesus does, whether he's healing women on the Sabbath, whether he's healing women while they're on their period. According to Judaism, you're not supposed to touch a woman while she's on her period. It's completely unclean, unsanitary.

@marcionite144adPaul was basically, he was the one that originally founded the Christian movement. And yes, he was a Jew, but he was a Jew that had recognized the satanic elements of Judaism. And he created, whether Jesus be real or not, what he created, his original gospel detailed a movement of Jesus that rejected everything in the Torah and challenged all of its beliefs.

@marcionite144adAnd it was this initial religion that founded the original church in Jerusalem. And at that time, Judaism, this whole concept of Christian Zionism couldn't have existed because according to, I think it was Dionysus, not Dionysus, it was according to the Roman emperor at the time, anybody that was caught with Jewish texts, anything even related to Judaism was to be put to death on the spot.

@marcionite144adSo this whole concept of Christian Zionism couldn't have existed in Jerusalem at that time, the original church where Christianity was founded. There was this gospel that Paul founded that became the fundamental basis for the early Christian movement, which was introduced to Rome. And once it was introduced, it grew like wildfire.

@marcionite144adThere were no other groups in Rome at that time that called themselves Christians. There was no Christian churches. It was a bunch of pagan belief systems, along with Rome's central belief system, which was based on worship of Saturn. Thank you, Major. I wasn't done. I wasn't done. I wasn't done. I'm sorry, but if not, we're going to keep going and going and then we have a couple of hands.

@marcionite144adGates, you have two and a half minutes to reply.

@yitzhak_zionistYes, I just want to say I'm going to go maybe for perhaps 20 more minutes, if that's fine. I apologize to anyone who didn't get a question if they wanted to ask me. You can just please tag me or DM, and I'll be happy to answer. But I'm going to respond in a moment, but I also want to go through my second evidence. I didn't get the chance from my opening statement, but Ramsey's the second.

@yitzhak_zionistSo I do want to do that before I close, before I leave the space. I basically just have one question, one point for Marcionite. You know, he keeps, isn't it interesting, the Jerusalem charts, Paul was a Jew, Jesus, whether he floated down to the planet or was born of a normal biological, you know, isn't it interesting?

@yitzhak_zionistEverything to do with Israel, everything to do with fellow Jews, all of the observances, all of the mitzvot, the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat, Here's another interesting quote from Jesus. And then he mentions healing on Sabbat, for example. Well, that's making fences around the Torah. That's reapplying the Torah. In fact, you're supposed to save a life and violate Sabbat to save a life.

@yitzhak_zionistThat was actually everything Jesus ever did in the New Testament, whether it's the Marcionite Bible or the Synoptic Gospels. Basically, because it was written by Jews, as he admits, anything that Jesus ever did, his ethical teachings, all of it,

@yitzhak_zionistI would like to ask him about this. What does he feel about it?

@yitzhak_zionistEverything that he claims Jesus is doing with Sabbatos is exactly what I said. The rabbis said to do, to reapply it, to change it, to make a fence around the Torah. He's literally making my argument for me, and perhaps in some sense better than I, because from the perspective that he's coming from. So keep it up, MajorMarcionite, keep making my argument for me.

@yitzhak_zionistThank you very much.

@joann_marieExcellent. Thank you so much, Yitz. And I don't think you got kicked out because they thought you were chosen. I think it was the behavior. All right. H1story, go for it.

@h1storymediaYeah, thanks. So I have something to say to each of these guys, and they can address each of these things on their own time. So to Yitz,

@h1storymediaWhat I need you to address is the fact that Yahweh cannot possibly be God the Father, because in the Old Testament we see that at the Tower of Babel, we see that there is the Most High, which means alien, who divided the nations amongst the sons of God, the B'nai Elohim. So he assigned an Elohim to each of the nations, and Yahweh was specifically assigned to Israel.

@h1storymediaNow you have to make sense of why there is a higher god, a father god, a supreme god, delegating Israel to a lesser god. So that's number one. Number two is that he can't possibly be Jesus either, because... For example, Luke 1.32 separates the two in a single sentence when Gabriel tells Mary that the child will be called Son of the Most High and that the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.

@h1storymediaSon of the Most High is one title, Lord God who gives the throne is another, and the regent, Yahweh, who hands the throne to the heir, he doesn't become the heir. So if the Lord God of that verse was already the child, Gabriel would be saying that the child will give himself the throne that he's about to be given. Jesus himself said that all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

@h1storymediaGiven. Authority that was given was held by others. We see in Psalm 82 that there is a divine counsel which is ever-present throughout the entire Bible, but... This is the same council that was divided amongst the nations at the Tower of Babel. And Elion at the head of this council is basically charging all these Elohim with basically corruption.

@h1storymediaAnd we know that these are not human rulers or judges because their punishment was that they're going to die like men. You can't die like men if you're already a man. That's not much of a punishment, is it? We see elsewhere throughout the Old Testament that... Yahweh appeals to a higher Yahweh. In the Sodom and Gomorrah narrative, Yahweh on earth appeals to Yahweh in heaven to rain fire and brimstone down on Sodom.

@h1storymediaWe see that in Isaiah that Yahweh says Yahweh is appealing to a higher Yahweh as a redeemer of Israel. So Yahweh the king of Israel is appealing to a higher Yahweh, the redeemer of Israel.

@h1storymediaClearly separate figures, and there's clearly a hierarchy. And these are from the oldest manuscripts that we have, the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint. They both agree on these narratives. So that's for Yitz to answer. For Major, I think we... Here's the thing with me and Major. I think we agree on some stuff. I think we just disagree on our conclusions about things.

@h1storymediaBecause I agree with him that Yahweh is not Jesus and he's not God the Father. I agree with him on that, but I don't agree that he is the accuser or the adversary or Satan or any of these things. And why is because, well, we see very clearly that there is a separation between the two. Like in Job chapters 1 and 2 is the clearest case.

@h1storymediaThe Satan has to request...

@h1storymediaI have other things to say, but we have other hands and new people up here, so I'll just leave it at that for right now, and they can respond to that. We'll circle back around to what I have to say later.

@yitzhak_zionistYes, yes, yes. First off, Tower of Babel. It was a play on words to confuse, similar to the Hebrew compared to the Akkadian. I invite anyone to research that. It wasn't an actual historical event. And I want to ask history. I want to confront him respectfully. You're awfully weird. You're a weird guy. How do you feel about being weird?

@yitzhak_zionistYou know what that stands for? It's an acronym for Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic. So you're weird. But that's the problem when you read the Torah. That's the mistake everyone falls into. Because they read it from a modern Western understanding, how modern Western literature is written. Oh, there's different names for God.

@yitzhak_zionistIt must mean that there must have been different gods that the Israelites worshipped. It couldn't, of course, have been that there were different titles for different characteristics. That's clearly what it was like in the old times, in the second millennium, third millennium. That's how it was like. That is the ancient convention that everyone, unfortunately, seems to miss.

@yitzhak_zionistSo, of course, if you're going to read the Tanakh from a modern standard, from a modern ideal, you're going to fall in one pitfall after the other, and you're going to stop and continue falling. But if you read it within the context it deserves, around the surrounding culture in which it was written, then it all starts to make sense.

@h1storymediaYeah, just real quick. This isn't a modern understanding. I just want to be clear. Everything I just said is completely rejected ever since Augustine. So the earliest Christians, well, I wouldn't say all of them unilaterally, but there are early Christians who had this exact understanding as well. And I would argue the Israelites themselves qualify as having this exact understanding.

@h1storymediaSo no, this isn't modern at all. In fact, the vast majority of Christians today And I think even MajorMarcionite would agree, the vast majority of Christians today believe that Yahweh is both God the Father and Jesus. So no, this isn't a modern understanding, respectfully.

@yitzhak_zionistYour argument, to be clarified, your argument is that because there are different names for God, therefore the Israelites were worshipping different deities, is that correct?

@h1storymediaNo, I'm saying that the Israelites believed that there was one supreme deity, but I'm saying that they believed in a hierarchy of divine beings.

@yitzhak_zionistYes, yes, yes. So like the heavenly council, etc. I see it more as a playful metaphor, imaginative. Of course, angels are extensions of God and normative Judaism, that's what it is. And it's just speaking with the angels. When Hussam says, make everyone in our image, he's speaking with the angels. But if you come from a Christian background, I don't know what Marcionite thinks of the book of John, but if you read John 1.1, then you walk away with a different picture.

@joann_marieAll right. Marcionite, you have three minutes.

@marcionite144adAwesome. Yeah. Speaking of the book of John, John 12.31, Jesus calls Satan... The ruler of this world. In Corinthians 4.4, Paul refers to Satan as the god of this world. People like to criticize Marcion for his dualistic beliefs, but even in the modern Bible, it speaks of Satan as not just the ruler of this world, but as the god of this world.

@marcionite144adAnd so, you know, in all, you know, Clarity, it's, you know, they're clearly identifying Satan as the God of the physical world. You know, Jesus says, my father's kingdom is not of this world. You know, he's speaking of a God that doesn't exist within the spiritual, within the physical world. He's speaking of a God of the spiritual world.

@marcionite144adSo, you know, it's clearly there's two different gods that exist, both in the modern Bible and in the Marcionite Bible. Only Marcion makes it a lot more clear because it wasn't written by a bunch of Jews.

@marcionite144adat the First Jerusalem Council. He told Peter, clearly, go preach to your circumcision cult and stay away from the Goyim. The non-Jews are my flock. Do not preach to them. It was unfortunate that Peter basically found it, or was founded upon Peter's beliefs of the Catholic Church, which is basically a Jewish point of view when it comes to Christianity.

@marcionite144adBut the truth is the original Christian movement, all the original Christians, they all identified Yahweh as the Goyim,

@marcionite144adIt's very clear to anybody that even has two brain cells rubbed together that this God of the Old Testament is genocidal. He's a jealous God. If he's God, what does he have to be jealous of? Like I said, he commands people to kill him down to their dogs and cats. If you understand the God of Jesus and the God that Jesus was depicting, none of these Yahwehistic quotes can...

@marcionite144adI thought you said they're all the same God. How could he be jealous if they're all worshipping the same God? No, no, no.

@yitzhak_zionistBaal, for example, Moloch, you know, those kinds of gods, they're different. They're not the same. They're not different titles for Hassan. If you worshipped Zeus, God forbid, that would be an idol worship. That's the issue.

@h1storymediaJust real quick, because, and respectfully, and I appreciate the dialogue and the conversation, but my points weren't really addressed. You brought up the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness found in Matthew. But the...

@h1storymediaThat actually kind of works against your narrative because you're saying that the entire Hebrew Bible is basically nonsense, but Jesus rebuked Satan using the Hebrew Bible in that exact narrative. So there's a problem there. And also, I'm willing to hear you out if you have citations and evidence, but as far as I know, I don't believe that there's any proof that...

@h1storymediaThe earliest Christians believed that the God of the Old Testament was Satan.

@marcionite144adI've got a great link I can drop in the blue pill that shows all the original letters of Paul. And it shows if you compare them, you know, the original seven letters of Paul in the text, the way that it's described to the modern versions that are provided in the modern Bible, you can see where they've gone in and made every single alteration.

@marcionite144adAnd every time they made an alteration, it's been done in order to reverse Paul's original intent and to basically invert it in

@marcionite144adYou know, they basically, they renamed it Luke in order to write Paul out of his own New Testament. That, you know, again, wouldn't exist if Marcion didn't, you know, compile Paul's original gospel with his letters and name it the New Testament. You know, all throughout, you know, the early Christian history within Rome, they were responding.

@marcionite144adYou know, all these gospel writers were all a response to Paul's original gospel, which was the basis for early Christianity. They were, you know, Rome was desperate in order to lead Christians back into the law, back into the worship of their Saturnian God, because it was the very basis for, you know, all Roman belief.

@marcionite144adAnd that's why their holiest day was Saturn, the festival of Saturn, where they would basically invert all the rules where, you know, slaves would be served by their masters and they would have, you know, the orgies with children in the streets. They basically, they inverted everything in Rome in order to

@yitzhak_zionistHistory, what he's really going to send everyone a link to is not the original letters of Paul, but the reconstructed letters of Paul, because that's what the Marcionite Bible is. It's a reconstruction. You're wrong. You're wrong there.

@marcionite144adThey're actually the letters that Irenaeus used when they went to translate the Bible from Latin back into English. They didn't have any Paul's original letters. They had to go to the Marcionite Bible, the original letters of Paul, in order to basically create an English version of the Bible. They are the original letters.

@yitzhak_zionistWell, I'm not a Christian expert, obviously, but I believe there are about 40,000 different textual differences between all of the New Testament copies that we have. And some of them are pretty significant. So with the Torah, of course, and the Masoretic text, which actually predates the Qumran, Debsi Scrolls, there's only nine.

@yitzhak_zionistSo isn't that a great blessing? And they're all pretty minor in half. They don't have any theological earthquakes. I did want to ask History a question. Do you believe in the documentary hypothesis? Because it sounds like you do.

@joann_marieAll right, you have two minutes to reply to that, History.

@h1storymediaWell, I can, but I don't want to get too far away because I brought up two points that I did want to have addressed respectfully. MajorMarcionite, maybe he forgot what I said, but I didn't get them addressed. So maybe before I answer that question, could we possibly try and get those... Yeah, what was your question again?

@marcionite144adI'll address it.

@h1storymediaYeah, so just two things. In Job... And in Zechariah 3, we see that Yahweh and Satan are two opposing figures in two different narratives, and then also there's the fact that if the Old Testament, you know, the Hebrew Bible, is illegitimate, if it's nonsense, then why is it that not only did Jesus quote it,

@marcionite144adThey've literally inverted all the original teachings of Jesus in order to deceive Christians into worshiping their demiurge God. Because keep in mind, in order to create their one world government, their messianic time as the Jews describe it, they have to convince the world to worship their God and them as the chosen people of that God.

@marcionite144adSo using their infinite amount of wealth and their infinite power and control over governments, they're basically forcing this Christian Zionist belief that somehow the Torah is a fulfillment, or the modern Bible is a fulfillment of the Torah when in actuality it was created as its antithesis.

@yitzhak_zionistI respectfully disagree. Of course you would. Jesus said he was going to fulfill the Torah. When he said that, what he likely meant is fulfilled himself individually, absolved of the commandments faithfully. That's probably what he meant. I don't think that's what he meant.

@h1storymediaOkay, then I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. Just one follow-up real quick. What would be the original Bible then? Because we have Greek manuscripts that date back to the first century before Marcion, and they all say these things. So are those illegitimate too?

@marcionite144adPaul said that anybody that should preach to you a gospel other than the one that I have delivered should be cursed by God. And it was Paul's gospel that was the fundamental basis for the original New Testament. And keep in mind, this was the original church in Jerusalem that was founded by Paul. Okay, they still have two minutes.

@h1storymediaThe original Gospel manuscripts in Greek already existed well within the first century.

@marcionite144adNo, they were not. And they weren't even named until the end of the second century, early third century. They were all a Roman response to Paul's original gospel. Like I said, for the first 150 years of Christianity's existence in Rome, there were no other competing faiths that were calling themselves Christian. It was the very term Christianity, New Testament, these were terms that were used exclusively in reference to followers of Marcion.

@marcionite144adHe was the church. He was Thank you, thank you. So, number one, you can follow, look what he's saying. Jerusalem church, Paul, he was Jewish, everyone here was Jewish, and yet he doesn't like us.

@yitzhak_zionistAnd, you know, my point is, you can follow Paul, who never met Jesus. You can follow the son of an apostle, apparently. Or you can follow, if you're a Christian, you can follow James, the brother. of Jesus. So whoever you are in Brazil who led the Jerusalem church that was destroyed by the Romans, and all of these original Jews were first century Jews.

@yitzhak_zionistEveryone, the original believers, they were all Jews. They were not Marcionites. They were not Christians. Jesus was definitely not a Marcionite. And like I said, the Torah predates the Marcionite reconstructed religion by millennia. Just a thousand BCE is what Professor Honko

@joann_marieYes, would you like to do some closing remarks? And I think it would be really good if you could name a couple of things that you both, you and Marcionite, have in common. And that was Mandy's idea. I think that would be really cool. Like, what do you guys both believe? And yeah, you have five minutes for your closing remarks.

@yitzhak_zionistThank you, thank you. I suppose what we have in common is that we're both trying to get to the truth as we understand it. And he's going to reject this label, but we're both trying to worship the biblical God. He believes that Jesus, and he believes we worship Saturn. All of the evidence he has provided tonight, it's like a spider web.

@yitzhak_zionistYou spin this giant, massive web, and you say, look over here and don't look over there. Look at the valve instead of the sin. Look at Saturn instead of the true meaning of Sabbat, and that's what's going on. He spins this spider's web from a reconstructed text. It's incredible with all respect. So now I will close my remaining time limits for my final opening, which would have been my opening remarks, and it actually is a good way to end my end of the space, I think.

@yitzhak_zionistAnd that is getting back to Ramses II, getting back to a very early date for the writing of the Torah compared to Marcionite, Gospel, etc. So as I said, Ramses II, he built massive inscriptions about his victory at Kadesh. And here's what gets really interesting, and this was only discovered quite recently. Of course, there were multiple portable interlocking wooden-framed tabernacles that had existed for a millennium prior to Ramesses' life.

@yitzhak_zionistBut the miskan, the tabernacle, in Judaism, in the Torah, in Exodus 25-27, directly models Ramesses II's unique cadet military encampment. It was designed, used by Ramesses. It was never used again by any other pharaoh. There's no evidence. that Jews ever discovered it and tried to copy it and what would be the need for that.

@yitzhak_zionistSo consider, if you will, the striking parallels. Both structures were 3 to 1 rectangular tents. They divided into a 2 to 1 outer reception area and a 1 to 1 inner room. For Ramsey's, that would be... Sorry, I had to reject a phone call. For Ramses, that would be the Pharaoh's throne room, and for the miscarried, it would be the Holy of Holies.

@yitzhak_zionistSimilar to that, the Ark of the Covenant had a winged cherubim. Ramses' inner sanctum featured a winged falcon representing Horus and flanking the Pharaoh's name in Egyptian hieroglyphics. Furthermore, Ramses' royal tent sat at the exact center. Can everyone hear me? We can.

@yitzhak_zionistYes, sorry, I had to reject a call twice. That's what I'm doing in my closing statement. The architectural and structural design is so uncanny. Like I said, there was no other evidence of anything copying like this from one to the other. With Miscan, exactly copied, Ramsey's the second, and Katmint Tent. And he did it for polemical reasons.

@yitzhak_zionistThe whole point of it is that God was trying to make a statement. What was that statement? that Pharaoh might be mighty in Egypt and he may be the most powerful, but in reality, Hesam can overpower the greatest Pharaoh on Earth. That is the point. So we have another direct parallel, another direct link. Where the Miskahn is specifically appropriating and copying in order to twist the script, so to speak, it is copying Ramsey's encampment tent that he used for the Kadesh battle.

@yitzhak_zionistSo that would mean that most Exodus must have occurred later on, perhaps in the 1250s when Ramsey's firstborn died, something of that nature. And when you combine this with the fact that the Torah has... has the earliest Hebrew linguistic profile. It's incredible proof, incredible evidence, let alone the divine prophecies I mentioned in my initial statement about the math equaling to the year 1948, or just all the prophecies in general about us returning to Eretz Israel and recreating our state, our third commonwealth.

@yitzhak_zionistAnd that's all I have to say. Thank you very much for the debate and the discussion. I'm sorry I couldn't get to the other hands. Please DM me if you have questions and I will do my best to respond. Thank you very much.

Ian MalcolmHe's incredibly polite. He is good faith. At no point do I think that he outright denies that which we all see with our eyes and ears, or at least I think that's the case. And even if he does, if we kind of intellectually have him in a corner in which we are able to say two plus two, he will say it is four. And so I am very grateful and thankful because he does come in, discusses these ideas with his positions.

Ian MalcolmThank you so much for joining us today.

Ian Malcolmand at no point lost his cool throughout this conversation. And so Mr. Yitz, you are courageous and you are brave and I am grateful to you for that. And so thank you for coming in here and sharing your perspective. And with that, I know there are some additional hands, but why don't we go to JoAnn, go to Christopher.

@marcionite144adI thought I was going to be allowed to respond.

@joann_marieYeah, he has five minutes to respond.

Ian MalcolmGo for it.

@marcionite144adYeah, I was...

@marcionite144adAs far as the Bible's reconstruction, he keeps citing that as if it's a point of contention. Yes, the Bible has been reconstructed, but it wasn't hard to do so given the mass volume of work that Rome did in order to try and... Thank you so much for joining us.

@marcionite144adAnd as far as Judaism goes, it's a genocidal faith. It's a murderous genocidal faith. And the very term Hebrew, for instance, it means robber, thief. In the early, was it 1800 BCE, the Sumerians identified a group of Canaanite tribesmen who were robbing and pillaging, just like the Jews are known for doing. And they called them sagas.

@marcionite144adAnd the Canaanite tribesmen, they liked the term so much,

@marcionite144adwhich is, you know, as Corinthians 4.4 and John 12.31 points out, you know, Satan is the God of this world. Jesus not only called him prince of this world, he called him the God of this world. So, you know, ultimately, you know, the Bible, even the modern Bible is dualistic in its belief system. You know, it wasn't just Marcion that held this belief.

@marcionite144adEven the modern Bible, you know, contends that, or, you know, admits that there is two gods in existence, two existences. There is the, you know, the Satan, the adversary, and then there's the one true God who is, you know, all love, all... All grace. And when you read the words of Yahweh, you can't associate that God with what Jesus described.

@marcionite144adHe's just too murderous. He's too bloodthirsty. He's not happy with just killing a single man. He wants to kill his entire family. He wants to kill his dogs and cats. And then he wants their blood splashed upon his altar so that he can smell their burning flesh. Thank you, Major, for your closing statement. I disagree with like 100% authentically.

@marcionite144adI'll say 99.

@yitzhak_zionistBut I disagree with the sacrifice element, etc. As someone says throughout the later prophets, don't give your firstborn son, just walk humbly in my ways. That's all there is to do. But thank you, Major, for doing the debate. Thank you, Ian, JoAnn, and Christopher. and I don't want to go another two hours, so it's late where I'm at.

@yitzhak_zionistSo thank you all very much for doing the debate. It's been my pleasure as well, sir.

@theleaderofusaThank you. Thank you all for keeping kosher.

Ian MalcolmWould anybody believe that we would be able to end a debate on such friendly grounds? And like I was saying before, I wasn't sure if Yus was going to have to go after his earlier remarks, so I wanted to make sure I said them. while he was still present. The only question that I would have or suggestion for the future, Yitz, we got to get you something other than the plant.

Ian MalcolmIt's a good representation, but I think you deserve something a little friendlier. But maybe the plant is a perfect representation of the Yitz. Either way, it's lots of love with which I want to thank you again for being here. We will go through some of the hands that are up. I want to make sure everybody gets a chance to share some of their thoughts, their opinions.

Ian MalcolmQuestions, comments, all those good things. And so, JoAnn, why don't we go around the room and kind of collect people's thoughts on how the debate went. And perhaps we will put into the purple pill, maybe we'll put a poll in terms of who you thought won the debate, if anybody, right? Were you convinced leaving here that in particular, do you think that the Jews, do they worship Saturn?

Ian MalcolmDo they not worship Saturn as the alternative? And maybe we'll put in there a question as to why that might be that you leave thinking what you do. But either way, I just wanted to say again, lots of love to Mr. Yitz for coming in here in such good faith and doing such a nice job representing his position on hostile territory.

Ian MalcolmBut let's go back to JoAnn.

@joann_marieSorry, I was making the poll. No, it's been such a great debate today. I was trying really hard to stay neutral and I think I did a really good job and you guys did such an amazing job. So thank you so much. And guys, again, please repost this space and if you guys go to it, I will also repost it and also bookmark it. It helps so, so much with the algorithm.

@joann_marieFollow Ian and Christopher and Mandy and Marcionite and Goyim and everybody here on the panel and no, it's been amazing. Thank you. All right, Jim, go for it.

@jim_kubackI just wanted to make sure my mic's working fine this time.

@joann_marieYeah, it's all good.

@jim_kubackPerfect. Okay, so during the debate, I had one thing that was kind of bothering me a little bit, just in the sense that there's always this talk of Second Temple Judaism and how everyone, all the ancient Hebrews were Jewish.

@jim_kubackBut with the Second Temple in particular, that was ruled by the Sadducees, not the Pharisees. And the Sadducees specifically rejected the Pharisees for claiming they could rewrite the Revelations, essentially, right? And similarly, famously, Jesus wasn't a fan of them either. The Charismatics rejected them. And I find, like you see, the modern Judaism or Jewish movement didn't really exist until...

@jim_kubackAbout 280 to 550 AD, when the Talmud was established in Babylon or modern-day Iraq. But I find the idea that the Sadducees just vanished when the temple was destroyed is a bit silly. Because prior to the fall of the Second Temple, the Christian movement was more, it was like proto-Jungian philosophy.

@jim_kubackAnd I guess my issue is that in this discussion we talk about historic Jewish practices, but I don't even think it's fair to call them Jewish practices. They were Yahwists. You know, they were practicing a sort of proto-religion that predates Islam, Christianity, Judaism. And all three of these religions sort of splinter from that same source.

@jim_kubackBut I find that historic... Anachronism of calling everything back then Jewish because it's Judean, it really confuses the conversation, and I'm interested in your guys' take on my theory that the Sadducees essentially were absorbed by the Romans and became the Roman Catholic Church.

@h1storymediaDo you mean Sadducees, or are you talking about somebody else entirely?

@jim_kubackI've only read these things, so if my pronunciation's off, that's just on me for being ignorant, sorry.

@h1storymediaNo, it's fine, I just wanted to make sure I understood who you were talking about.

@mossadsuxSo let me clarify very quickly, if I may, Mr. Ian and Mrs. Joann.

Ian MalcolmGoyim coming in with some heat.

@joann_marieHe did an amazing rant earlier. It was awesome. And it was like half-Jewish with a Jew accent as well. And he was like, Baruch Hashem every time something went wrong.

@h1storymediaI love Goyim so much.

@joann_marieMe too.

@h1storymediaI love Goyim and I don't know how he does the Jew voice for such an extended period of time, but he deserves so much credit for that because I would be coughing my lungs out if I tried to do it for as long as he did.

@joann_marieIt's so perfect.

@mossadsuxI had hours and hours, days even, of practice during the JQ spaces for people's amusement and to keep people entertained. So now on to more specific historical facts. So the difference between the Pharisees and the Sadducees is very simple. Sadducees do not believe in a reincarnation or everlasting life. They don't believe in heaven.

@mossadsuxThat's it, very simply, in a nutshell.

@mossadsuxSo you might say there's secular Judaism in the modern sense.

@jim_kubackI guess from my understanding from what I've read, I got the impression that they acted as a sort of strict record keeper. Like they didn't want anyone messing with the revelations. And my thought here is that after the revelations of Jesus would have become a little bit more accepted, less radical. I think it's...

@theleaderofusaLike additions and versions and supposedly, you know, some sort of revelations coming from God that weren't documented.

@mossadsuxThat is very true, Christopher. That is spot on. And again, as I said before, they also believe that in the Torah there was no concept whatsoever of resurrection or life after death. So they are basically secular. Other than following the Torah, whatever that means to them.

@jim_kubackOh, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. But personally, I think that may be a matter of interpretation. Just in the sense that if we go back to the more Gnostic teachings, that life after death is more returning to the monad, right? But when the Orthodoxy was established, they really hunted down all the Gnostics and wanted you to be back in the temples.

@jim_kubackThey didn't want you thinking...

@marcionite144adThat was the whole point of the creation of the Catholic Church is that they wanted to drag Christians back into the law, back under the worship of their Saturnian God. The Catholic Church, in fact, they created... Malcolm?

Speaker 2I don't know. I just want to say that the thing that you're saying is that the Catholics were the ones that were saying, no, you can only be Gnostic, as in, you have to learn through us. You can't have a Bible. You can't be federal to have a Bible or to read a Bible. That's why he was trained up in the Catholics.

@marcionite144adMalcolm Luther was going out saying, hey, man.

@joann_marieMalcolm, your microphone sucks.

@marcionite144adI got his point, though.

@marcionite144adI got his point, though. Basically, yes, it was the Catholic Church that demanded that they become the sole point of authority between the followers of Jesus and themselves. Go ahead.

@marcionite144adLet's switch to another speaker.

@jim_kubackThis isn't going good. Yeah, sorry. I've asked my question anyway. Thank you guys so much for your answers. My pleasure.

@joann_marieExcellent. All right. Official, go for it.

@joann_marieOfficial going once. Official going twice.

@d2thedreI'm here, I'm here.

@joann_marieI'm here, I'm here, I'm here.

@d2thedreYeah. Not for real.

@joann_marieI was like... I know you.

@d2thedreCome on, man. Hi. What's up, everybody, man? Shout out to the host, co-host, and everyone in the space. That was a great debate, man. It really lived up to what I was expecting. That was really cool. Excuse me, so I just want to go over something here. If there's any Jew in the room, forgive me for my mispronunciations of your stuff here.

@d2thedreSo, in the Kabbalah, or the Tree of Life in the Ten Eminations, you have these spheres. But the Jews, I would assume, as they invert everything, like they're known to do, would probably focus on the Klipoth side, which is the Tree of Death. And then with the Tree of Life, and these spheres also, they also preside over the planets respectively.

@d2thedreLike the first sphere, I'm going to start from the bottom. The 10th one you would have Earth, then you have going up the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Pluto as an invisible orb of energy, Uranus, and then Saturn, and then Neptune. And at the top is where you have Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. This is like the...

@d2thedreRight, but this is, and then you have the foundation, the moon, then you have beauty, Venus, you know, with the victory, and then you have Mercury with glory, then you have Mars with strength, and then Mercy with Jupiter, understanding with Bina, Saturn, and then wisdom, with Yokma, Uranus, and then the crown at Keter.

@d2thedreSo with the tree of death, all of this would be inverted. So where, excuse me, where you have, We have the foundation of Earth, which is where you would have Lilith. And then at the moon, you would have the obscene ones, right? And then where you would have Mercury or Victory, you have the Ravens of Dispersion. Then for the sun or Tifrath, where you have Beauty, you have Thagirion or the Disputers, right?

@d2thedreAnd then you have Thamial. And then you have the flaming ones, Golakab over Mars or when Glory. And then the real interesting one I like here, where Saturn presides over Satyarel, and Saturn being the sphere of understanding, you have the concealers, right? And then you have Gagiel, or Hilchma, would be the hinderers, right?

@d2thedreAnd then you have, where you have mercy, you have the smiters, right? So everything in the Tree of Death, it completely makes sense to what Jews, you know, in their actions, they smite, they hinder, they conceal, right? They dispute, they disperse. Thank you so much, Official.

@patternrecpetroThanks, JoAnn. Just a couple minutes, if you don't mind. There's one Bible verse, it's 1 Kings 18.21. It says, How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord Yahweh is God, follow Him, but if Baal is God, follow Him. I just want to clarify some confusion as to what's going on. I have models of architecture that confirm this to be an accurate hit.

@patternrecpetroYou don't have to believe what I say because I know some of the things will be discreet upon. I understand that. I'm just asking you to troubleshoot it within your architecture of what you're building and see what strides you can make. But long story short, the unholy trinity of planetary alignment is Jupiter. Saturn, Uranus, Jupiter is Baal, Saturn is the roaring lion, it's El, and Uranus is King Herod.

@patternrecpetroWhatchamacallit, this all has to do with Gnosis. So if you're a Christian, it's not just the Jews. If you're a Christian, or if you're a Muslim, or if you're a Jew, and you don't have access to your Gnosis, if you're a Christian, you worship Jupiter, which Vatican is Baal. If you're a Muslim, you worship Saturn, which is Roaring Lion, the Kaaba.

@patternrecpetroAnd if you're a Jew, you worship Uranus, which is the iceberg, the icebox inside of the star, the hexagon part of the star, David. You know that the Jews specifically technically worship Uranus because

@patternrecpetroTechnically, you put Jupiter together, Jupiter's ball, the Leviathan, with the roaring lion of Saturn. That's how you get Yadaboth, Y-A-L-D-A-B-A-O-T-H. That patrols the deepest, darkest depths of the subconscious. Technically, we're located inside of the dream state, the deep state, which is the deepest, darkest depths of God's third eye.

@patternrecpetroBasically, it patrols the iceberg of Uranus, and at the top of that iceberg is King Herod, and that is Israel. That would be Benjamin Netanyahu. You know that because Uranus is known as the

@patternrecpetroLike, for instance, the Muslims, when they go to the Kaaba, it's a six-sided cube, but they circle that cube seven times counterclockwise, technically, according to planetary alignment. But the thing is that if the Muslims don't have the gnosis to know that when you circle that thing seven times to unravel it, you get a 2D cross, meaning the person that was thrown into the cube, the matrix, the person is Christ, 666, to destroy the works of the devil and how you turn lead into gold because Saturn is associated with both lead and gold.

@patternrecpetroNo coincidence, Donald Trump's all about his golden age, is you do it through alchemy and you have to do it through gnosis and understand that Christ conquered that cube, which is the lead house of the false god Baal. He did it through crucifixion. That's how you turn lead into gold. But if you were a Muslim and didn't have that understanding, you circling that seven times would be like you trying to unlock a lid that's childproof and never opens.

@patternrecpetroIt's endless. So just go ahead and try to add those to your system because Yahweh Sabaoth is the Lord of hosts, heavenly armies. He's outside of this world, outside of the cube. He lives in the Monad, seventh level heaven. And basically we are all in the arena of the firmament where we are real life Hunger Games. And yes, God is the creator of all things, both good and evil, because basically this is his video game where all the works of the devil were housed in Christ as 1 John 3, 8, the destroyer of death and the works of the devil comes back labeled with three sixes.

@patternrecpetroThank you, Brian. Yes, okay, thank you. Dr. Strange, go for it.

@joann_marieYes, we're still like... Can I just respond to this real quick?

@d2thedreWe can have a conversation, sure. I just want to respond to the Black Cube part for as a Muslim saying. The reason being behind it is because of to give kind of honor and veneration to Abraham, peace be upon him, and then his pilgrimage. It was just, yeah, it's just for Abraham. It's nothing to do with the planet, but that's it.

@joann_marieGreat, thank you, official. Go for it, Dr. Strange.

@h1storymediaWait, just real quick, because I'm going to step out for the night, but I appreciate the space, and Ian, thank you for throwing me a mic, having me up here, and it was fun. Great job, MajorMarcionite.

Speaker 2We don't go yet, no.

@joann_marieMalcolm, your microphone sucks.

@h1storymediaI don't know if he was addressing me or not, but anyway, I hope you guys have a great night. I got some stuff to do, unfortunately. Maybe I'll see you guys in TruthTeller's space in a little while. But if not, then I'll catch you all later. Have a great one.

@joann_marieI'll see you there, and thank you so much. You did wonderful.

@h1storymediaOh, and also, I might be doing a space with MajorMarcionite tomorrow, so keep an eye out for that.

@joann_marieAwesome. Good luck.

@theleaderofusaI gotta hop off too, my phone's getting ready to die and I gotta get some sleep, but I really appreciate y'all and this was an entertaining space having this debate and whatnot. I would really encourage and like to see more of these formal style debate sessions and I'm sure they'll continue being tweaked until a nice little format is found, but I think it's on the right page.

@theleaderofusaI really like it and I think... It's a nice change of pace. I hope you all have a blessed night. Keep on fighting, and thank you so much for having me. Y'all were created for a purpose, not by accident.

Ian MalcolmLots of love, Mr. Christopher. And before you go, Chris, would you want to give a kind of closing prayer? Because I know as we wind down the space, it might be a nice way to go about that.

@submission2tMay I go before you guys do the closing prayer?

@joann_marieOkay, Malcolm.

Ian MalcolmYou just need a better microphone.

@theleaderofusaIf Chris has time, we can definitely... What's going on? What are people asking?

Ian MalcolmDr. Strange wanted to go, and then I was going to say, Christopher, if you're sticking around, we could get a closing prayer from you after Dr. Strange's remarks, if you have time. If you do need to leave now, no worries.

@theleaderofusaYeah, yeah, after Dr. Strange's remarks, I'll get out of here and say I'm appreciative. Thank you.

@submission2tThank you so much, folks. I wish I'd been here earlier. I got stuck in a space with Andrew Wilson. I waited three hours to ask him a question, and then the guy left. So unfortunately, I wasted three hours. He did. I had something really nice prepared, but unfortunately, the others went on and on to the minutiae of detail that added nothing to the conversation.

@submission2tAnd then by the time it was my turn, the guy left. But nevertheless, I wish I'd actually come here. I probably would have gained more and benefited. But nevertheless, I appreciate you guys giving me the mic. Thank you. I want to go back to, sadly enough, there's a lot of people who are saying that linking up Islam with the cube and Saturn and the fact that somehow Muslims worship the Kaaba.

@submission2tAnd with all due respect, I do believe it comes from a lack of proper understanding of Islam. Because if anybody's read the Quran, you will not say that Muslims are worshipping the Kaaba. Because everything and anything in the Quran is all about worshipping the one true God that is outside of creation, right? God has no form.

@submission2tThank you very much.

@submission2tYou will find nothing in the Qur'an that says you have to go worship the Kaaba. The Kaaba is a direction. The circumambulating around the Kaaba is a form of worship. It's a form of worship of God, not the Kaaba itself. Because everything in creation, Muslims believe, even inanimate stuff, is in a state of worship.

@submission2tAll the way to the atom is going counterclockwise in a state of worship, worshiping God. Now, that being said, to further hopefully explain things to people, there's a Hadith narration of the Prophet, peace be upon him, that says the life of a believer is more important than the Kaaba. So if the Kaaba were to be torn apart, if there was a choice between saving the Kaaba

@submission2tThe life of a believer, it's more important than saving the Kaaba if it were to be torn apart. So that should give you another example. Now Muslims also pray towards the direction of Al-Aqsa Mosque. I don't know if anybody knows this, but they also pray towards that direction because that's also a holy place. So this idea that somehow, I honestly believe and I hope,

@submission2tI honestly believe sometimes we try to fit a circle in a square just to make things, just for everything to look like easy for us to understand. But I urge you, please go read the Quran for yourself. And you will, I don't even have to tell you anything. You will come out and say that there is nothing in there that people are worshiping the Kaaba.

@submission2tThere's nothing in there that says you have to go worship the Kaaba. So I don't know how else to say it, but it is, and I'm having a loss for words, so I hope that clarifies it. And most importantly, there's one thing that Islam focuses on over and over and over. Nothing in creation is worthy of worship. I want to say this over and over and over again.

@submission2tNothing in creation is worthy of worship except God, who is outside of time and space. Thank you Heavenly Father for everything that you do for us. Thank you for watching over us. Thank you for the roof over our head and the food in our stomach.

@theleaderofusaThank you for family and friends. Please continue to guide us.

@theleaderofusaPlease continue to lead us in your direction, Lord, to seek the truth because we know that there's only one truth, yet there's a lot of different ideas out there. We know we were created for a purpose and not by accident, Lord, so please continue to guide us towards our purpose so that way we can fulfill it. In the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, we pray.

@theleaderofusaAmen.

@joann_marieHoly Trinity. Beautiful. Thank you so much, Christopher. And thank you so much for joining us. And also, we'll see you next Thursday. And God bless you.

@theleaderofusaAbsolutely. Absolutely. I hope you all have a blessed day. And thank you so much, JoAnn. Great job keeping up with the times and keeping track of everyone, JoAnn, with the speaking. That was huge. And Ian, I hope you all have a blessed night, huh?

Ian MalcolmYou too, my friend. Always so wonderful to have you in here, Christopher. And I echo those sentiments. I think a wonderful job done by Major, by Yitz, by all those that came in and participated. And so, so grateful that we were able to do that. And I think, Chris, you're right. We should do these at least once a month, JoAnn.

Ian MalcolmWe should try to schedule some kind of debate on some subject. It really gets there for an interesting little conversation. So I just want to thank everybody that participated in it. And JoAnn, any kind of final thoughts as we kind of wind everything down?

@joann_marieOh, I couldn't open my mic. No, it was wonderful. Thank you so much for hosting it, Ian. I had so much fun. And Christopher and Marcionite and Yates both did such a wonderful job. And I learned a lot. And all of the speakers were amazing, especially Goyim. He was spectacular. So, no, thank you. And I want to... Thank you so much for joining us.

@speakerThank you, JoAnn, for just being who you are and being here.

@joann_marieThank you so much, Mandy, and I love it being here, and you do such a wonderful job as well. Your tweets are absolutely brilliant, and I wanted to do a post later, but Mandy gave me a gift card to buy a couple of t-shirts from...

@joann_marieThank you so much, Mandy. This is the first gift that I actually accept from someone. So thank you. And you're so, so, so wonderful as well. And I'm so happy that you found us. So love you. Thank you.

@speakerNow somebody is going to say that you've been bought off by the Russians. I don't care. Russian money. Oh, no, no. It's a bribe.

@mossadsuxThat's why we call her Katar Marie behind closed doors.

@joann_marieThat's true. That's how I'm called. Katar Mandy. Is that what that was?

@joann_marieAll right. On Monday, we have the Jewish Faith Unpacked from Within with Bobby Fischer. And then on Tuesday, we have Psychology of White Nations with Machiavelli. Then on Wednesday, we have Resilience is Resistance with Mo. Then on Thursday, we have Israel and False Flags with Jamie. So no, thank you so much. And this is going to be wonderful.

@joann_marieWe have a wonderful week ahead. And thank you, Mandy. Love you.

Ian MalcolmNo, absolutely. And I have to echo the sentiments there by Mandy. And everybody knows that JoAnn is the co-hostess with the absolute mostest on this entire application. I could not do any of this, frankly, without all the unbelievable support, the encouragement, the positivity, let's say the structure that she has helped to bring into all of this.

Ian MalcolmIt really is absolutely phenomenal. And she is, as a person, inside and out. Everything that you hear from her and the positivity is all that I've ever seen from her, both publicly in these spaces and then in DMs. And she is just, she's an absolute gem and a blessing and a rainbow to my day. And it really is, JoAnn, it's so humbling and encouraging and enthusing and all of those things.

Ian MalcolmAnd you really are, you are just a... You're a blessing to all of us that are in all of these conversations. And so I just, as always, I want to thank you so, so, so much for everything. I want to thank all of you for being here, all the listeners, the participants, certainly to the major, to Mr. Yitz for coming in. And I really do.

Ian MalcolmI mean, think about it. Yitz came into a hostile environment, knowing that he is basically going to position something that almost everybody else universally in this room is going to disagree with. and yet walked away with, at least according to the poll, about half of, well, maybe not half, but almost half of the support from the room in terms of his position, which is pretty impressive.

@mossadsuxYou might even say he sacrificed himself, right?

Ian MalcolmI don't want to use that term. Recorded line. But he did. He came in. And, you know, when everybody goes to vote, the one thing that I want to make sure to encourage is to not necessarily choose Are you picking the Jewish supremacist or the non-Jewish supremacist, right? Like, don't think of the vote that way. Because the point of this debate was whether or not Jews worship Saturn in particular, not whether Israel is good or any of those other kind of things, which obviously we know is not the case.

Ian MalcolmAnd that was what Yitz took umbrage with. And so I give him credit for coming in and articulating his position on it. But that poll is up in the nest. So please feel free.

Ian Malcolmto that issue. And so I just want to encourage that. I want to thank, of course, everybody for being here again, for Major and for Yitz, for all of you for listening. And maybe what we could do, JoAnn, we got the wonderful prayer with Chris to close everything out, but maybe we could do a little bit of a song to send us on our way from the always wonderful, either Joey Goode, from Rabbi [guest], or from any of the other wonderful artists that we have on our side.

Ian Malcolmand prior to doing so, I just want to wish everybody, of course, good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Certainly, God bless for everything that you are. Godspeed. We're going to continue to win. I hope everybody tunes in when Mr. Truthteller does open his room to that discourse. He's always so wonderful to learn from.

Ian MalcolmAnd otherwise, I just want to, of course, wish everybody the best of days, best of nights, wherever you might be. And the most of gratitude, of course, to Ms. Joanne for everything that she's done.

@joann_marieI know, thank you, Ian. I love doing these spaces. They are so wholesome and I'm just so grateful for you and for everybody here. So thank you. And the song that I'm going to play, it's by Joey Goode. And this is one that when I heard it, it reminded me of you and truth and a complete vindication. So, yeah, I hope you guys like it.

@joann_marieThis is going to be really good. All right.

Speaker 3They all said I was crazy Said I'd lost my mind No one wanted to hear me But they were all so blind But I was the only one with sight Because it turned out I was right I was right about everything Right about everything

Speaker 4I was right Now they finally listen They hang on my every word And it's not that I was smarter I'm just ahead of the curve

Speaker 5I was never crazy, I just see what's going on

Ian MalcolmHe would engage with some of my comments, but nonetheless kind of stayed inside the pocket of avoiding certain talk tracks. And yet today, I essentially see posts from him coming out and saying with clips of Netanyahu or of Israeli politicians and saying, is it just me or are these people lying about everything all the time?

Ian MalcolmAnd do we live in a world in which they just control all the lies? And it really is pretty insane to think how far We have come, right? We don't have a television program. We don't have a broadcast. We don't have anything but some spaces on X and the ability to share our content that is unbelievably suppressed. And we look around and we realize the things that we were saying two years ago that everybody said we were crazy and delusional, as Joey Goode said, right?

Ian MalcolmAnd now what is the world noticing? That we were right. And it's not just about Israel. It's not just about AIPAC.

Ian Malcolmand that we have spent essentially our entire lives brainwashed that that was the most evil of things and objectives imaginable because of the people that unfortunately were pointed at by that group of, I suppose, nationalists that they lost the war, right? You could say the bad guys won, perhaps. I'm not saying that all of the individuals that did lose that war were all always good in every capacity.

Ian MalcolmObviously not. There's always kind of black and white and gray in between. Thank you so much for joining us.

Ian MalcolmThat as people start to come around to these truths and recognize that we were right, that we'd be open arms to everybody, that we'd not be radical, we'd never encourage violence, we'd never become the very monster that we are standing in opposition to. Instead, we just speak truthfully, speak honestly, speak boldly, and speak courageously.

Ian MalcolmAnd I say that because if I look around, again, we're changing the world. And that sounds crazy. But if you think about it, just like it was said yesterday on this application by Mr. Joa,

Ian MalcolmSo keep doing the thing that you can. Keep doing all the love that you can to put the right energy out to keep exposing the liars, exposing the genocide, and making the world a better place for you, me, the entire human race. We are going to continue doing so. Lots of love to everybody. I look forward to those spaces for next week and all that will follow.

Ian MalcolmIf you ever want to be in one, you want to have a debate, send me a note. We're scheduling all the way out. I kid you not. JoAnn sent me a note and said, hey, what do we want to do the latter part of December? Because she's presently scheduling spaces the week before and the week after Christmas. And I can tell you, I will not be doing any spaces on that week, but I will do them the week before and the week after.

Ian MalcolmAnd I just want to say that because how wild is it to think that we're now scheduling almost all the way out to 2027? And the reason is because there's lots of content that we need to share with all of our friends on this app to try and share with all your friends, your family, and the world at large. So lots of love to absolutely everybody.

Ian MalcolmI will see you all in the next space. And until then, lots of love not just to the co-hostess with the mostess, Ms. JoAnn, but to all of you. I will see you hopefully in Mr. Truthteller's room when he opens. And if not, I look forward to that next conversation with all of you. Lots of love, my brothers, my sisters. Keep making the world a better place.

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